Socket 939 - the only future proof socket right now

paulsiu

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Feb 7, 2005
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From what I read so far:

Socket A is essentially dead.
Socket 478 is essentially dead.
Socket 479's fate is unknown. No one knows if Pentium M will continue to live on this socket.
Socket 775 is compatible with dual core P4 that's coming out, but the chipset on the MB are not. The chipset is not yet out. All current 775 board is not compatible with dual core.
Socket 754 is on life support. AMD has discontinue the A64 with the exception of Turion. With the exception of the higher end manufacturers like ASUS or DFI, most motherboards manufacturers will not update their BIOS to support Turion.
Socket 939 is compatible with dual core and appears to be the only future proof socket at the moment.l
 

deveraux

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Mar 21, 2004
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According to the last AMD roadmap I saw (can't remember where now), I think it supports 3 dual core CPUs which IIRC puts it at around first half of 2006, which is still shorter than I'd like. Socket A was legendary though, a whopping 5-6 years IIRC. There might be older sockets that lasted longer but I don't go that far back.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
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For mobos bought in late 2004 to early 2005 it seems the S939 boards are the only ones with any future past one year. Even then there is suppose to be a new higher end Socket M motherboard from AMD.

Personally, I have a S939 board already so the next time I buy a new mobo it's going to have DDR3 support with whatever else features that's developed in that time. I plan to skip the yawn-a-thon that is DDR2. I have a feeling so is AMD as they're pushing hard for DDR3 to get completed. DDR2 is also bad for AMD A64's anyways due to high latencies which is part of the reason AMD wants the DDR3 specifications hammered out ASAP.
 

flatblastard

Senior member
Mar 1, 2005
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At what point is the latency considered "high"? I am curious because I have ddr2 pc2-4200 with CL=3 . Thats right, cas3, 533mhz. Now I know DDR has had lower lats for some time now, but don't you think it's just a matter of time before ddr2 will be available with even lower latencies than what we have today?
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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Well seeing as how the lowest I've seen DDR2 go is CAS3 and the the lowest I've seen DDR go is 2... Personally I think that by the time that DDR2 is low enough to be acceptably used on AMD, DDR3 will be so close that it will be moot
 

ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
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I think once Italy Opterons are out my socket 940 platform should be pretty damn good for a while.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
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i read somewhere that the 939 might not me compatable with dual cores since one of the pins are placed in another corner (i think inquirer)
 

Mari0Br0s

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Feb 22, 2005
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AMD to Release First x86 Multi-Core Processors mid-2005

The Evolution of Multi-Core Technology

With the introduction of the first computer came market demands for more computing capacity. Symmetrical multi-processing ( SMP ) has long been a technology used to increase computing performance and efficiency by spreading computing loads across multiple processors. SMP is especially effective in multi-threaded environments where many tasks (threads) need to be handled simultaneously.

As application performance demands grow, processor designers are facing the issue that it takes more power to drive more computing capability. More power means that dissipation levels also need to be managed. Add to this the demands of the industry for computers to become smaller ? more servers in a rack, thin and lighter laptops, and smaller footprint for a desktop system. Multi-core processing will help address these computing challenges. This evolution in technology will allow for increased performance and higher productivity in smaller computers that can simultaneously run multiple complex applications and successfully complete more tasks in a shorter amount of time.
Learn more about the evolution of multi-core technology and its features and benefits for commercial and consumer clients.

The Multi-Core Advantage

In today's digital world the demands of complex 3D simulations, streaming media files, added levels of security, more sophisticated user interfaces, larger databases, and more on-line users are beginning to exceed single-core processor capabilities.

Consider some benefits of multi-core technology:

* Improved system efficiency and application performance for computers running multiple applications, including consumer and commercial desktop and laptop systems and multi-purpose SMB servers.
* Enhanced performance for multi-threaded applications, such as database engines and engineering and graphics design software.
* Support for more users or tasks for transaction-intensive applications, such as web and application servers.
* Superior performance for compute-intensive applications, such as financial analysis and scientific simulations.
* Simplified overall computing infrastructure requirements helping to save you money
* Helps to eliminate thermal and environmental issues

AMD's Technology Leadership

The launch of the AMD Opteron? processor in 2003 represented the landmark introduction of AMD64, a new class of x86 computing. AMD64 represents an evolutionary path to pervasive 64-bit computing by enabling 32- and 64-bit applications to run simultaneously, with no degradation in performance.

The AMD Opteron processor offers the power and simplicity of AMD64 technology for servers and workstations. With its Direct Connect Architecture, the AMD Opteron processor addresses and helps eliminate the real challenges and bottlenecks of system architectures because everything is directly connected to the central processing unit. Direct Connect Architecture provides industry-leading performance by delivering the best performance per watt architecture in the market and the best 2P & 4P architecture for x86 computing.

AMD will continue to drive technology leadership by introducing another computing first: multi-core technology for the x86 based computing market . In 2005, AMD will introduce dual core processors to the market, starting with servers and workstations and then extending into desktops and mobile PCs.

Dual core AMD Opteron processors are one more example of how AMD is extending its evolutionary Direct Connect Architecture by connecting two CPUs on one die, eliminating the bottlenecks inherent in front-side bus architectures.

AMD identified early in the AMD64 development process that multiple cores would be the next evolution to garner the highest performance, so AMD64 was designed from the ground up to be optimized for multiple cores. AMD multi-core technology combines the load-sharing benefits of SMP environments with the dramatically reduced memory latency of Direct Connect Architecture.

Direct Connect Architecture helps eliminate the bottlenecks inherent in a front-side bus by directly connecting the processors, the memory controller and the I/O to the central processor unit (CPU) to enable overall system performance and efficiency.

AMD - First to Demonstrate Multi-Core Technology

In 2004, AMD became the first in the industry to demonstrate x86 multi-core technology when we presented an x86 dual-core processor for 32- and 64-bit computing. The showcase system was a 4-way server powered by four dual-core AMD Opteron? processors manufactured on the 90nm SOI process.

View a demonstration about AMD Opteron dual-core processors.

Availability of Multi-Core Products

AMD will release the first dual-core products for servers and workstations in mid-2005 , followed by dual-core processors for the client markets beginning in the second half of 2005 .

The first multi-core releases will feature one die with two CPU cores. Each core has separate L1/L2 cache hierarchies, as well as the integrated memory controller, HyperTransport? technology and AMD PowerNow!? technology found in single-core processors.

Dual-core AMD Opteron processors can be inserted into existing 940-pin sockets on the 90nm process technology (95W/80A) with a BIOS update, saving time and costs while increasing performance and value.

* Single-threaded and multi-threaded x86 and AMD64 software is compatible without requiring any code changes.

Enterprise Benefits

Corporate IT systems currently optimized for SMP multi-threaded applications should see significant performance increases by using AMD multi-core processors.

This logical performance boost will take place within current, available hardware and socket designs, enabling corporate IT managers to add more sophisticated system layers, like virtualization and security, without significant disruption to legacy systems.

Another key benefit: Simplified manageability, lower TCO, and maximum processor performance - the AMD Opteron? processor with Direct Connect Architecture enables one platform to meet the needs of multi-tasking environments, providing platform longevity.

Client/Consumer Benefits

AMD multi-core processors can immediately benefit businesses and general consumers by providing the capability to run multimedia and security applications with increased performance.

Clients and consumers can expect a new era of productivity. Tasks like CD burning, firewall operations, video compression and various ?digital home? operations can run in the background while users continue with other computing tasks. Consumers can perform popular ?digital home? tasks such as compressing video or burning CDs

The AMD 64 Multi-Core Advantage

Ease of Migration to Multi-Core Processors

* HP, IBM and Sun and other system manufacturers will be able to easily incorporate multi-core products into their existing AMD Opteron? processor-based designs
* Socket compatible with existing 90nm single core processor architectures

Higher Performance Per Watt

* Customers will experience the performance advantages of multi-core processors by getting the best performance per watt available in the market

Direct Connect Architecture

* Best 2-socket and 4-socket architecture for x86 computing
* Addresses and helps reduce the real challenges and bottlenecks of system architecture because everything is directly connected to the CPU
* Directly connects the processor cores to a single die to even further reduce latencies between processors

AMD Opteron Dual-Core Overview

* The AMD Opteron? processor was designed from the start to add a second core
o Port already existed on crossbar/SRI
o One die with 2 CPU cores, each core has its own 1MB L2 cache
* Drops into existing AMD Opteron 940-pin sockets that are compatible with 90nm single core processors
* A BIOS update was all that was necessary to get the 4-socket server up and running with dual-core AMD Opteron processors
* The 2 CPU cores share the same memory and HyperTransport? technology resources found in single core AMD Opteron processors
o Integrated memory controller and HyperTransport links route out the same as today?s implementation

Partner Support

?Dual- and multi-core processor technologies on industry-standard servers will redefine scalability, performance and value for enterprise and SMB customers,? said Paul Miller, vice president of marketing, HP Industry Standard Servers. ?Having the industry's first dual-core x86 processors from AMD up and running on HP ProLiant servers demonstrates both HP's close relationship and collaboration with AMD and our ongoing commitment to rapidly deliver the best new technologies to our customers.?

?As AMD?s strategic partner, we are in a unique position to support AMD64 dual-core technology with our hardware and software products,? said John Fowler, executive vice president of the Network Systems group at Sun Microsystems, Inc. ?The Solaris OS combined with the AMD Opteron processor-based Sun servers and workstations will take full advantage of the AMD64 dual-core architecture, managing multi-thread applications with superior efficiency and performance.?

The e326's dual-core technology design puts IBM in the lead to help customers transition to future dual-core solutions. "Designing for the dual-core specification, IBM has invested to enable our customers to be more confident with their hardware investments," said Alex Yost, director of product marketing, IBM eServer. "For organizations with high-performance computing demands that want investment protection and a migration path from 32-to-64-bit applications, the eServer 326 provides an optimum platform for clustering at an affordable price."

Industry Support

?Dual-core technology provides an attractive path for increasing processor performance with little or no increase in power consumption or heat dissipation,? observed Nathan Brookwood, principal analyst at Insight64. ?AMD laid the groundwork for its dual-core processors years ago, when it gave its single-core AMD64 processors the on-chip plumbing they would need to support a second core at a later date. As AMD moves dual-core technology from theory to practice, it is reassuring to see that current investments in core logic and platform technology will remain relevant for years to come.?

?AMD has recognized the importance of keeping a compatible system architecture while still meeting today?s demanding computing needs,? said Kevin Krewell, editor-in-chief, Microprocessor Report, Instat-MDR. ?AMD?s demonstration of a current platform operating on dual-core AMD Opteron processors based on AMD64 technology represents another industry first for AMD as the company continues to provide industry-leading innovations to the industry-standard architecture.?

Source: AMD.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is not exactly mentionned in this article, but the next AMD processors should still be using socket 939. I've not found the article where I've red it, but it was from AMD.com also.
 

KDKPSJ

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2002
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But according to AMD's roadmap, isn't S939 Dual Core will be available only as higher-end? THIS ONE Toledo is only dual core for S939 in 2005, and it is placed at higher-end area where FX is at. And then, all the line-up, from 754 to 940 will be replaced with M2, and most of Dual core will be available in M2. Therefore, if you don't have money to spend 400+ bucks for CPU (like me :p), you have to wait until M2 comes to market, and upgrade whole thing at that time. That's my interpretation of AMD's plan.. Am I wrong? (Honestly, I am hoping I am wrong, because I am S939 user as well)
 
Jan 31, 2002
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Conclusion:

Buy your stuff now. Be happy. Upgrade later.

"Future Proof" is about as much a catchphrase as the Tornado Fuel Saver. :p

- M4H
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
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Aug 22, 2001
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Originally posted by: ribbon13
I think once Italy Opterons are out my socket 940 platform should be pretty damn good for a while.
Yeah, lets have some Opteron lovin' 'round here :)
 

clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
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Its not clear where socket M fits in, if its high end then prices will fall quite a bit on S939.

Thing is , I know they dont like making CPU's for 3 different platforms, so I reckon S754 wont be around much when this thing hits.

S939 may go down to the entry level, which wouldnt be a bad idea.
 

flatblastard

Senior member
Mar 1, 2005
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Originally posted by: TheStu
Well seeing as how the lowest I've seen DDR2 go is CAS3 and the the lowest I've seen DDR go is 2... Personally I think that by the time that DDR2 is low enough to be acceptably used on AMD, DDR3 will be so close that it will be moot



At the release of the first runs of DDR3 memory in retail, what do you suppose the latencies will be like when those mem chips first come out? My guess is they will be just like DDR & DDR2 when first introduced: "high" latency.
 

Avalon

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2001
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A healthy chunk of us here upgrade our mobo with our CPU half the time anyway...every 6 months :p

Actually, I've gone through 3 motherboards this year so far, and we're not even into Q2 yet. :D
 

flatblastard

Senior member
Mar 1, 2005
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Originally posted by: Avalon
A healthy chunk of us here upgrade our mobo with our CPU half the time anyway...every 6 months :p

Actually, I've gone through 3 motherboards this year so far, and we're not even into Q2 yet. :D


I'm in that bunch....and also another reason why I've stuck with intel (for the most part) all these years, cuz I never had a good reason to switch, I was always upgrading anyways! It's funny tho, cuz lately I've been thinking about building myself a new AMD rig. I'm just not too confident since the last time I built one was an old K6 266 ;)
 

sangyup81

Golden Member
Feb 22, 2005
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s939 only future-proof socket?

i disagree

there is no future proof socket anymore

when the A64 supports DDR-2, look for a new socket yet again
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
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Yeah, I would say no cpu platform is future proof anymore if by future you mean >1 year from now. Same goes for video cards. I'm still using an Athlon XP, and at 2.5ghz, I'd say it's fast enough for anything I throw at it, including games, movie encoding, digital audio processing, etc. Whenever I upgrade cpu's I usually upgrade the mobo also, because there's always little changes in the cpu specs that make your current board not able to take full advantage of the newer cpu, like when AMD decided to make the Athlon run a 166mhz fsb, and then few months later decided to go even further to 200. The newest Athlons were technically compatible with 133mhz chipsets, but to get full performance you now had to buy newer revisions of chipsets, which means a new motherboard, even though the socket was still the same. The same thing might happen with A64 and s939.
 

Bartokomus

Golden Member
Mar 15, 2002
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funny; i could have sworn i read about *both* Intel and AMD guarranteeing some socket stability for at least four years. Did anyone else read that?
 

Sentential

Senior member
Feb 28, 2005
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Originally posted by: sangyup81there is no future proof socket anymore
Hit the nail on the head. We wont see any form of socket stability until Pentium5 hits (whatever socket that is) and when S1207 arrives for AMD. Perhaps then we will see sockets last several years