Socket 939 bottlenecking GTX 280 at 1920x1200?

[Eluros]

Greetings, all,

I'd like to upgrade the gaming capabilities of my PC, but can't afford a new system at the moment, as I'm saving up for a wedding. However, I'd definitely be willing to purchase a new power supply and graphics card.

Here are my current specs (that I believe would be relevant):

Socket 939 AMD Athlon 3800x2
2 Gigs of RAM
EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS 320mb
Windows XP SP3
A 24" Monitor for gaming at 1920x1200

If I purchase a new power supply (my current one is pretty wimpy), grab a GTX 280, and plop it in there, do you think I'd see major performance gains from this as opposed to a slightly lesser card? Would I see better performance, given my current limitations, than if I upgraded to a GTX 260?

Thanks a ton; I appreciate it!

 

[postmortemIA]

you don't have money, yet you want to buy one of most expensive cards?

your CPU is so outdated, it is worthless to buy high end GPU with it. it simply can't run in pair with today's high end graphics.

You'd be better of buying budget Pentium Dual Core and HD4850.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: postmortemIA
you don't have money, yet you want to buy one of most expensive cards?

your CPU is so outdated, it is worthless to buy high end GPU with it. it simply can't run in pair with today's high end graphics.

You'd be better of buying budget Pentium Dual Core and HD4850.

X2 performance is roughly equivalent to the lower-end Pentium Dual Core. Of course, once you start overclocking...

OP, what kind of budget do you have? As postmortemIA has implied, for the $$ you would pay for a 280GTX, you could go a long way in upgrading the overall performance of your PC, especially if you sell your old X2/mobo/RAM.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Seriously, if you spent $300 on a new CPU/MOBO/RAM/GPU, you'd be SET!

AMD 7750 $80
780G mobo $70
4GB DDR2 $40
Radeon 4830 $100

That would absolutely destroy a s939 3800 and a GTX280. My old CPU (s939 4200+ at 2.4ghz) couldn't even push enough frames for my x1650 at times, how is it going to for your GTX280?

 

[toyota]

a 3800 x2 will be a severe bottleneck for a gtx280.

 

[postmortemIA]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: postmortemIA
you don't have money, yet you want to buy one of most expensive cards?

your CPU is so outdated, it is worthless to buy high end GPU with it. it simply can't run in pair with today's high end graphics.

You'd be better of buying budget Pentium Dual Core and HD4850.

X2 performance is roughly equivalent to the lower-end Pentium Dual Core. Of course, once you start overclocking...

OP, what kind of budget do you have? As postmortemIA has implied, for the $$ you would pay for a 280GTX, you could go a long way in upgrading the overall performance of your PC, especially if you sell your old X2/mobo/RAM.

no it is not. Pentium dual core is about 30% faster per clock - just per one core.

2.5GHz Pentium Dual Core ($80 item) is then very roughly 70% faster than it - just one core.

 

[toyota]

look how bad a 5000 X2 holds back a gtx280 in Warhead even on high settings at 1680. this doesnt even cover the minimum framerates which would be pretty bad especially on the OPs much slower 3800 X2. http://www.hardwarecanucks.com...formance-review-4.html

in Far Cry 2 a 3800 X2 would limit your average framerate to about 30 fps no matter how fast of a video card you get. http://www.pcgameshardware.com...CPU_benchmarks/?page=2

 

[error8]

A 3800X2 will bottleneck the hell out of that 280. Better get a slower card and change the whole mobo+cpu. You'll get better results like this.

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: error8
A 3800X2 will bottleneck the hell out of that 280. Better get a slower card and change the whole mobo+cpu. You'll get better results like this.

This.

 

[palladium]

Heck, your CPU would very likely bottleneck a GTX260 ( you typed that in your OP post).

 

[MarcVenice]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
Seriously, if you spent $300 on a new CPU/MOBO/RAM/GPU, you'd be SET!

AMD 7750 $80
780G mobo $70
4GB DDR2 $40
Radeon 4830 $100

That would absolutely destroy a s939 3800 and a GTX280. My old CPU (s939 4200+ at 2.4ghz) couldn't even push enough frames for my x1650 at times, how is it going to for your GTX280?

Bad advice, he'd be getting a faster CPU, sure, but the videocard is like 10-15% faster then what he has, and will still SUCK at 1920*1200.

His best bet is oc-ing that x2 3800+ to 2.6ghz or higher, and pair it with a HD4870 1GB. He will be bottlenecked for sure, but not THAT bad, and he should be seeing a BIG improvement at his resolution, the CPU should at least be able to get 30fps in 75-85% of the games out there. Then when he has a little more money, he can get a 7750 and a new mobo.

GTX280 is overkill though.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
Seriously, if you spent $300 on a new CPU/MOBO/RAM/GPU, you'd be SET!

AMD 7750 $80
780G mobo $70
4GB DDR2 $40
Radeon 4830 $100

That would absolutely destroy a s939 3800 and a GTX280. My old CPU (s939 4200+ at 2.4ghz) couldn't even push enough frames for my x1650 at times, how is it going to for your GTX280?

Bad advice, he'd be getting a faster CPU, sure, but the videocard is like 10-15% faster then what he has, and will still SUCK at 1920*1200.

His best bet is oc-ing that x2 3800+ to 2.6ghz or higher, and pair it with a HD4870 1GB. He will be bottlenecked for sure, but not THAT bad, and he should be seeing a BIG improvement at his resolution, the CPU should at least be able to get 30fps in 75-85% of the games out there. Then when he has a little more money, he can get a 7750 and a new mobo.

GTX280 is overkill though.

actually even at 2.6 that cpu will severely limit any high card in especially bad in some newer games. I had a 5000 X2 and it even bottlenecked an 8800gt, 9600gt, and 4670. I didnt get any where near the performance I saw in benchmarks for those cards on the web because all those sites used a really good cpu while testing. even with the 4670 I had over a 30% increase in framerates in Far Cry 2 alone just by going with a decent Core2. just imagine how much would be wasted with a much faster card.

 

[Shmee]

try a p45 mobo, cheap DDR2 $ GB, e5200, and get the card you want then. May need a new PSU. Of course I still don't have your budget, So I will assume up to about $450. (Price for a 280 and a decent PSU)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128368 Motherboard: $105
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115132 Processor: $120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231226 RAM: $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130416 Video card: $175 and a MIR

Granted, its not a GTX 260/280, but it will beat your G80 8800 GTS, especially with the rest of the new system. Comes to almost exactly $450.

Also, you could save some money and get an e5200 instead, but not much. If you have a decent cooler which is also compatible with 775, you can OC the e7300 very well, which is why I included the 1066 speed ram. If you're not really ocing it, you could save maybe $20 and stick with DDR2 800.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: Shmee
you can OC the e7300 very well, which is why I included the 1066 speed ram. If you're not really ocing it, you could save maybe $20 and stick with DDR2 800.

There is no need for ddr2 at 1066 mhz to max out that E7300. At 4 ghz he would have the ram at exactly 800 mhz.

 

[RiDE]

^ what they said.

My brother put a 9800GTX with an FX-60. It was faster than the X1800XT that was previously in there but would still stutter with WoW and TF2 on medium/high settings. He bought an E8500 and 4GB of DDR3 and overclocked it to 4.3ghz. Now he plays his games at max settings without dipping below 60fps with the same 9800GTX.

EDIT: I'm still on a socket 939 system too... I'm going to have to let go of it sooner or later. *sob*

 

[Shmee]

alright then, go ahead and get 800 Mhz ram. should shave off a few dollars

Mb could get a good cooler with the money saved

 

[Eluros]

Thanks for the fabulous advice, all!

Well, sounds like I may need to upgrade quite a bit. Some questions, based on what you all have said:

1. If I buy a new MB/CPU/RAM/GPU and etcetera, I would need to re-install Windows on my hard drive, correct? Unfortunately, it's not looking like that's an option at the moment, because my version of Windows XP is a student edition and I've already used up my two activations on it. Do you guys know if Microsoft will continue giving them to me, if I call them up or something?

2. What would you say would be the best card for 1920x1200 on my current rig that would not be bottlenecked to a degree that the price/performance ratio would be thrown off? I can certainly live without top-of-the-line performance in order to save a few bucks for awhile, as money will be tight soon; if I could get a cheaper card like a 8800 GTS 512 and it would do well, that might be a preferable option, all things considered.

3. Overclocking was mentioned. Do you think this is a viable possibility for my processor? I'd like to know whether you guys think an overclocked processor could overcome a significant degree of limiting factors in terms of processor speed.

Thanks, all!

 

[heyheybooboo]

OC the X23800 and buy the video card that looks good within your budget (and it would help if you set one - say $200 ??). Your vid card pulls around 110w - an HD4870 or GTX260 will pull around 150w. Got Power?

Yes. Your x2 will be a bottleneck but as long as the framerates are playable with your new card you will be just dandy - and you will have saved enough money to purchase the latest new game sensation:

""I Married Bridezilla: Please Help Me ""



The longer you put off the inevitable (new mobo, cpu & ram) the better off you will be - stuff is always cheaper and faster just down the road ...

 

[spittledip]

MS will re-activate it for you. You will ahve to call them when you go through the activation process on the number listed. You will ahve to go through the whole process of trying to activate over the phone with the automated process before you can talk to a rep. Once you talk to a rep, they willl take care of you.

BTW, I think it is horrible advice to upgrade to a dual core pentium at this time. Best to save your money and upgrade to a Quad core. if you only upgrade to the dual core, you will be feeling the pain in a year or 2 again.

 

[NoSoup4You]

I recently upgraded from an X2 4400+ s939 system (8800GTS 640MB) to my current system. For a couple weeks I also had the GTX260 paired with the AMD processor. Those s939 AMD chips are really slow in today's games, and my chip was running at 2.42Ghz. Not even close to enough performance to keep games smooth.

Go for a cheap Intel setup, like an E5200 (or 5300/5400 when they're available) and OC it. Cheap motherboard with decent OC ability ($85) and 4 Gig's of RAM ($35) and you're set. It'll use less power than your X2, which helps since you mentioned your power supply is weak.

 

[chucky2]

You know, you've been putting off an upgrade for so long now, why don't you just wait until AM3 CPU's and mobo's come out from AMD?

Regardless if you go that route, it'll give you this scenario: Cheaper i7 (and since I don't follow Intel, maybe this i5 I've heard about?), Cheaper AM2+, An actual new AMD platform - AM3.

You'll have 3 better (maybe 4 if that i5 hits soon) choices than what you have now, and all you have to do is wait for a small amount of time...something you've already been doing for years now.

At this point, knowing the above 3/4 things, What's the rush?

Chuck

 

[MarcVenice]

i5, aka lynnfield/havendale has been delayed. Waiting for am3 might prove viable.

But telling Eluros to upgrade to a e5200 or e7300 at 2.5ghz-ish, and getting a videocard that only slightly faster than what he has is bad advice imo. And a HD4850 or 9800gtx+ is still not an option for 1920*1280. He needs a HD4870 1GB or a GTX260 216. Getting such a card and keeping his old x2 3800+, which he should oc to 2.6ghz or higher, is better then getting a e5200 or e7300 and pairing it with a 9800gtx+.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Eluros
Thanks for the fabulous advice, all!

Well, sounds like I may need to upgrade quite a bit. Some questions, based on what you all have said:

1. If I buy a new MB/CPU/RAM/GPU and etcetera, I would need to re-install Windows on my hard drive, correct? Unfortunately, it's not looking like that's an option at the moment, because my version of Windows XP is a student edition and I've already used up my two activations on it. Do you guys know if Microsoft will continue giving them to me, if I call them up or something?

2. What would you say would be the best card for 1920x1200 on my current rig that would not be bottlenecked to a degree that the price/performance ratio would be thrown off? I can certainly live without top-of-the-line performance in order to save a few bucks for awhile, as money will be tight soon; if I could get a cheaper card like a 8800 GTS 512 and it would do well, that might be a preferable option, all things considered.

3. Overclocking was mentioned. Do you think this is a viable possibility for my processor? I'd like to know whether you guys think an overclocked processor could overcome a significant degree of limiting factors in terms of processor speed.

Thanks, all!

• 1. Most likely since it will be a full platform/chipset upgrade. Microsoft is pretty good about re-activation due to hardware change, they should accomodate you. Otherwise there's Win7 Beta that is widely lauded as being fast and stable, which will get you by for the next 6 months to 1 year.
  
  2. I'd still buy the fastest card in your budget, then worry about upgrading CPU/GPU, especially if you're planning to upgrade the mobo/CPU at some point anyways. If you buy a GPU to match your CPU you'll be in a similar unbalanced situation when you finally get around to upgrading your CPU. Some of the reasonable priced mid-range parts like GTX 260 c216 or 4870 1GB in the $220-250 range would be good choices without breaking the bank. A GTX 280 on clearance/special would also be a good choice (deals for $250-$275).
  
  3. Not likely for that CPU, as clockspeed alone isn't what's holding it back, L2 Cache is crippling it badly as well. You can clock it to 3GHz but it'll still never perform like a Core 2 or Phenom 2. Some of the reviews below will show this clearly.

Like many others mentioned, that CPU will badly cripple performance with a faster card. There's quite a few in this thread that have made a similar upgrade to what you're looking at giving first-hand testimony confirming a significant boost after upgrading the CPU. Here's a bunch of other reviews that clearly show significant gains from faster CPUs, I know there's a few in there that also show a 3800+ and its not capable of providing playable frame rates regardless of the GPU in some titles even at the lowest resolutions.

GTA4 - 13 CPU round-up

COD4 + GRiD - Intel CPU Clock for Clock Comparison @ 2GHz

COD5 - 12 Intel and AMD CPUs

Far Cry 2 - various speeds

Left 4 Dead - various speeds

 

[NoSoup4You]

FPS were all over the place for me when I was running a GTX260 and s939 X2. The minimum fps were very low in the games I play, dropping down into the teens when there was a lot of action on screen. This was regardless of whether I dropped the graphical settings and/or resolution. With the E8400 @3.6Ghz, all my games are either pegged at 60fps the entire time (I turn vsync on with the intel setup, vsync was always off for the AMD) or in the 35-45fps range (Crysis on Gamer with some settings on Enthusiast).

I'd prefer a C2D @3.0Ghz+ with an nvidia 8800 GTS or better card over an AMD s939 X2 with a GTX2x0. The X2 is just too inconsistent (high fps one minute, dropping into the teens the next).

 

[Eluros]

It sounds like it's a lose-lose situation for me. I can upgrade the video card, but it wouldn't help much. I can upgrade the processor/motherboard, but I'd be stuck with a relatively poor video card. Basically, I guess I just need to budget for an entirely new PC, as opposed to merely upgrading parts. Ah, well. *sigh*

EDIt-- With the exception of MarcVenice... while it sounds like they are very knowledgeable (being a moderator and all), it doesn't seem like the community consensus is in concurrence... Hmm...