JEDIYoda
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Famed US attorney Alan Dershowitz called Tutu “a racist and a bigot” during the controversial Durban II conference in 2009.
JEDIYoda
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http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/06/02/tutu-constantly-tooting-his-tuneless-flute/
It occurs to me that Desmond Tutu’s obsession with and hate of Israel, always couched in politically correct human rights jargon and clichés, might have its roots, amongst other things, in an essential lack of intellectual and cogitative ability having absorbed Replacement Theology completely without a single enquiring or discerning thought, thus finding a self-justification for his anti-Semitism and then having it reinforced when his monstrous and equally fragile ego was severely dented in 2008, when he was appointed by that well-known Israel loving body, the United Nations, as head of a “fact-finding” mission to Gaza. Israel refused to grant him the necessary travel clearance. Israeli officials wisely and correctly expressed concern that the report would be biased against Israel.
Of course we can delve deeply into Tutu’s myriad of anti-Israel actions and relentless attacks over the last twenty five years. Let us bear in mind that Jews and Israel have always been such easy and convenient whipping boys for furthering one’s personal ambition, image and agenda. Our history is fraught with it. Alan Dershowitz has referred to Tutu as a “racist and a bigot” and he has been proved correct over and over again.
Then of course one has to wonder who is constantly whispering in Tutu’s ear and egging him on with some of the most obscure protests against Israel with sound-bytes, but, as usual, no actual substantiated proof. Proof of this is Tutu and his whisperers’ late awakening to the soccer championships. He did the same thing recently when refusing at the last minute to sit on the same stage as Tony Blair after accepting an invitation long before the event. Is this Alzheimer’s Lite or just plain bad manners and opportunism? Remember, there is already a well known media addiction. I suspect Tutu craves the media coverage more than actually achieving what he asks for.
Maybe it is because I prefer watching rugby with no interest in soccer that the UEFA championships didn’t really appear on my radar screen. Maybe Tutu secretly prefers rugby as well. Maybe Zackie Achmat has been too busy since losing his ill-begotten sources of income to bring it to Tutu’s attention.
Where is “the blatant and entrenched discrimination inflicted on Palestinian sportsmen and women by Israel”? Israel has named six Israeli Arabs in its soccer squad for the championships. There are many mixed Jewish/Arab soccer teams in Israel, for example, Hapoel Katamon in Jerusalem. There is no legislation for or against such teams. It simply is not part of Israel’s makeup or psychology. Genuine Apartheid in South Africa clearly damaged his mind and now he seeks it elsewhere and melds it with his anti-Semitism. Riding this anti-Apartheid horse has become enormously financially profitable for Tutu and it comes with constant ego-stroking as well. Tutu is obviously playing the Goebbels propaganda game. He should be ashamed! But then that would require genuine sensitivity and not an Oscar-performance.
As for “Israeli authorities restrict the movement of their athletes between the Gaza Strip, and the Israeli ‘occupied West Bank’”, isn’t it logical that Hamas, which has a long history of using any means and opportunities to attack Israel, has no compunction to do so and stating it, and sends in suicide bombers whenever it can, could and would take advantage of their soccer players and sportsmen? It is most prudent, wise and logical of Israel to be cautious. We are reminded of the Gaza woman treated in Israel for severe burns? When she was to return for a check-up at the out-patients, she had a suicide bomb strapped to her as she was going to blow up the doctors and staff that had helped and healed her at the hospital. Israeli border guards were vigilant and alert and stopped her at the border crossing. Can’t remember Tutu condemning such things and did he ever criticize a single rocket out of twelve thousand that were fired at Israel from Gaza, and this doesn’t take into account recent events, rocket and mortar attacks? Tutu, the immoral icon, has selective morality.
Israel may have Gaza on its borders, but for all intents and purposes, it is an independent country which Israel has no responsibility towards and certainly no agreements nor real relationship with. The relationship and movement of people between Gaza and the so-called West Bank is not Israel’s responsibility and it obviously has to be very careful who it allows into the “West Bank”, no matter what the pretences or reasons may be. Tried getting into the UK with a South African passport recently?
As for Mary Kluk, the chairman of the South African Jewish Board of Deputies, she can deeply admire Tutu as much as she likes in her newspeak. I, and I am sure a vast majority, certainly don’t! The important question is how can Mary Kluk fulfill the mandate of the Board of Deputies, which is to fight anti-Semitism, if she admires anti-Semites like Tutu? Mary Nicht zo Klug!
And the Cape Town and Johannesburg Holocaust Centres continue to keep Tutu as a patron.
It occurs to me that Desmond Tutu’s obsession with and hate of Israel, always couched in politically correct human rights jargon and clichés, might have its roots, amongst other things, in an essential lack of intellectual and cogitative ability having absorbed Replacement Theology completely without a single enquiring or discerning thought, thus finding a self-justification for his anti-Semitism and then having it reinforced when his monstrous and equally fragile ego was severely dented in 2008, when he was appointed by that well-known Israel loving body, the United Nations, as head of a “fact-finding” mission to Gaza. Israel refused to grant him the necessary travel clearance. Israeli officials wisely and correctly expressed concern that the report would be biased against Israel.
Of course we can delve deeply into Tutu’s myriad of anti-Israel actions and relentless attacks over the last twenty five years. Let us bear in mind that Jews and Israel have always been such easy and convenient whipping boys for furthering one’s personal ambition, image and agenda. Our history is fraught with it. Alan Dershowitz has referred to Tutu as a “racist and a bigot” and he has been proved correct over and over again.
Then of course one has to wonder who is constantly whispering in Tutu’s ear and egging him on with some of the most obscure protests against Israel with sound-bytes, but, as usual, no actual substantiated proof. Proof of this is Tutu and his whisperers’ late awakening to the soccer championships. He did the same thing recently when refusing at the last minute to sit on the same stage as Tony Blair after accepting an invitation long before the event. Is this Alzheimer’s Lite or just plain bad manners and opportunism? Remember, there is already a well known media addiction. I suspect Tutu craves the media coverage more than actually achieving what he asks for.
Maybe it is because I prefer watching rugby with no interest in soccer that the UEFA championships didn’t really appear on my radar screen. Maybe Tutu secretly prefers rugby as well. Maybe Zackie Achmat has been too busy since losing his ill-begotten sources of income to bring it to Tutu’s attention.
Where is “the blatant and entrenched discrimination inflicted on Palestinian sportsmen and women by Israel”? Israel has named six Israeli Arabs in its soccer squad for the championships. There are many mixed Jewish/Arab soccer teams in Israel, for example, Hapoel Katamon in Jerusalem. There is no legislation for or against such teams. It simply is not part of Israel’s makeup or psychology. Genuine Apartheid in South Africa clearly damaged his mind and now he seeks it elsewhere and melds it with his anti-Semitism. Riding this anti-Apartheid horse has become enormously financially profitable for Tutu and it comes with constant ego-stroking as well. Tutu is obviously playing the Goebbels propaganda game. He should be ashamed! But then that would require genuine sensitivity and not an Oscar-performance.
As for “Israeli authorities restrict the movement of their athletes between the Gaza Strip, and the Israeli ‘occupied West Bank’”, isn’t it logical that Hamas, which has a long history of using any means and opportunities to attack Israel, has no compunction to do so and stating it, and sends in suicide bombers whenever it can, could and would take advantage of their soccer players and sportsmen? It is most prudent, wise and logical of Israel to be cautious. We are reminded of the Gaza woman treated in Israel for severe burns? When she was to return for a check-up at the out-patients, she had a suicide bomb strapped to her as she was going to blow up the doctors and staff that had helped and healed her at the hospital. Israeli border guards were vigilant and alert and stopped her at the border crossing. Can’t remember Tutu condemning such things and did he ever criticize a single rocket out of twelve thousand that were fired at Israel from Gaza, and this doesn’t take into account recent events, rocket and mortar attacks? Tutu, the immoral icon, has selective morality.
Israel may have Gaza on its borders, but for all intents and purposes, it is an independent country which Israel has no responsibility towards and certainly no agreements nor real relationship with. The relationship and movement of people between Gaza and the so-called West Bank is not Israel’s responsibility and it obviously has to be very careful who it allows into the “West Bank”, no matter what the pretences or reasons may be. Tried getting into the UK with a South African passport recently?
As for Mary Kluk, the chairman of the South African Jewish Board of Deputies, she can deeply admire Tutu as much as she likes in her newspeak. I, and I am sure a vast majority, certainly don’t! The important question is how can Mary Kluk fulfill the mandate of the Board of Deputies, which is to fight anti-Semitism, if she admires anti-Semites like Tutu? Mary Nicht zo Klug!
And the Cape Town and Johannesburg Holocaust Centres continue to keep Tutu as a patron.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,095
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to be fair, isn't Dershowitz also a "butthurt zionist," to use the words of Mondozi?
I would call this a very weak counterpoint to that assertion.
Israel certainly doesn't risk "becoming" an apartheid state, it obviously already is one. I don't know how anyone could look at the situation there and come to any other conclusion.
i look so much like an arab on my photo I.D. that i wish i had some painless secure way to die... my blood pressure really went up when i looked at it a few hours ago. If I was jewish, then i would be smart and i wouldnt look like an ape.
the palestinians are at the bottom not because they are arabs, but because they had land that the jews from the former polish-lithuanian commonwealth wanted.
and if the State of Israel is so apartheid, then why do israel jews have blacks come from africa and work for israeli jews?
Israel is not an apartheid state. People in Israel actually have rights and freedom. Minorities and gays have rights in Israel while in other countries in that area gays are executed.
While I grant you that equality is definitely lacking in Israel, it is very easy to criticize what you don't understand and actually feel.
For the americans, imagine if you were at war with Mexico, Mexico doesn't recognize your country, (the border is perfect right?) and mexicans cross the border and blow themselves up. Mexicans fires rockets at you ( and unlike America, everything is small) and they dig tunnels under the border, and commit terror.
How would you handle it? Probably in a way similar to how it's handled in Israel. Severely limit the ability of local "mexican american" citizens to travel. Invade Mexico maybe. The attitude towards local hispanics would probably be very different.
In 1948, the UN divided what was then known as Palestine into two states. It actually gave the better half to the Palestinians. They decided they didn't like it and wanted it all, and started a war, which they lost. It was on that battleground that the State of Israel was founded. Ever since, Israel needs to fight to survive. Except for Jordan and Egypt, no other neighbor recognizes Israel. It doesn't help that Israel has a primarily right-wing government that doesn't always think to clearly. (I hate Netanyahu).
Still, everyone criticises without knowing anything about the subject. It's very easy, and popular apparently. It's also quite stupid. It's equivalent to "reading something on the internet" and repeating it.
For the americans, imagine if you were at war with Mexico, Mexico doesn't recognize your country, (the border is perfect right?) and mexicans cross the border and blow themselves up. Mexicans fires rockets at you ( and unlike America, everything is small) and they dig tunnels under the border, and commit terror.
How would you handle it? Probably in a way similar to how it's handled in Israel. Severely limit the ability of local "mexican american" citizens to travel. Invade Mexico maybe. The attitude towards local hispanics would probably be very different.
In 1948, the UN divided what was then known as Palestine into two states. It actually gave the better half to the Palestinians. They decided they didn't like it and wanted it all, and started a war, which they lost. It was on that battleground that the State of Israel was founded. Ever since, Israel needs to fight to survive. Except for Jordan and Egypt, no other neighbor recognizes Israel. It doesn't help that Israel has a primarily right-wing government that doesn't always think to clearly. (I hate Netanyahu).
Still, everyone criticises without knowing anything about the subject. It's very easy, and popular apparently. It's also quite stupid. It's equivalent to "reading something on the internet" and repeating it.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
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The real point here isn't whether Israel is right or wrong, or if one supports them or doesn't, it's that we have a Sec of State who isn't acting like one while involved in difficult, sensitive and important negotiations.
Diplomats should be diplomatic, not editorialize about such subjects while involved in them. It's as though he forgot he was SoS, the top diplomat, and fell back into a Senator role.
Assume his remarks were pointed in the other direct at Palestine. Do you think they would claim that Kerry was biased and refuse to participate with him? I think they would and rightfully so.
The upside is that there wasn't going to be any peace accord anyway. The 'no harm, no foul rule' can be invoked.
Fern
Diplomats should be diplomatic, not editorialize about such subjects while involved in them. It's as though he forgot he was SoS, the top diplomat, and fell back into a Senator role.
Assume his remarks were pointed in the other direct at Palestine. Do you think they would claim that Kerry was biased and refuse to participate with him? I think they would and rightfully so.
The upside is that there wasn't going to be any peace accord anyway. The 'no harm, no foul rule' can be invoked.
Fern
Your summary isn't anywhere close to being the truth.
A more accurate analogy would be Jews in Europe coming over to the US. And the UN dividing the US in 2 portions giving the Jews one part of the original US. The pro zionist view of history likes to see Palestine as a 'new' piece of land nearly empty of any inhabitants, perfect for a new state. If Israel was truely interested in peace, then they wouldn't have expanded settlements all over the occupied territories. Israel's new historians have made it clear that the founding of Israel necessitated an 'original sin' of dispossessing the Arabs.
In 1948, the UN was still mostly controlled by the western powers + communist nations. 3rd world countries were still under colonial rules and they had no voting rights. The voting record since then has always been close to the whole world vs Israel+US.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
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I wasn't sure where I stood on the accuracy of the comment, but now that Incorruptible has offered his opinion:
I am now 100% certain that Israel is an apartheid state. No question about it.
I am now 100% certain that Israel is an apartheid state. No question about it.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
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HomerJS
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2002
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Oh I'll talk. Who said the following?...
Ehud Barak. Israel Sec of Defense in 2010.
Now you want to stay on the sinking ship the SS Palin?
senseamp
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
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And he didn't even say it fully. He only said that there is a "risk" of something that is ALREADY A FACT becoming true.
And I call Alan Dershowittz a self-important, torture supporting, pro Zionist, terrorist supporting ass so there.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
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You can call him what you want...it doesn`t make his statements wrong......
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
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call it anything you like......
have you actually lived in Israel?
Do you know anything about Israel other than what you have been spoon fed?
Probably not.....yet Dershowitz is revered and respected in Israel and by quite a few people!
Israel is NOT an apartheid state! Most of you idiots do not even understand the word!
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
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JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,986
- 3,320
- 126
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