Social Security solvency - time to get rid of this pyramid scheme now!

[BarneyFife]

No, its not time to get rid of it. Social Security is a great backup plan and helps many many seniors. It also helps many children whose parents who die or become disabled. Just be thankful that you aren't 70 years old paying $300 a month in medication or had your parents die when you were young.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: cpumaster

Originally posted by: Carbonyl
SS is a really nasty (15%) TAX which is difficult to avoid unless you work for a 403b or are self employed and only pay yourself with loans. Avoid it at all costs since you'll never see it since they suck it dry for other BS.


From Onerys Link people should be going ape:

"Unlike private pension funds, the trust fund holds zero marketable assets as a result of past paid-in surpluses by workers, just non-marketable bookkeeping IOUs for which no budget commits their play-back and no cash interest is paid. Last year the trust fund took in $596 billion from workers payroll deductions, and paid out to seniors about $456 billion - - meaning a cash surplus intake of $140 billion - - but every penny of that was siphoned-off and spent on non-pension stuff - - and more meaningless IOUs issued."

I agree with the statement, govt always doing stuff like that, they try to find money/cash from any sources they could, even the one they not suppose to touch, and when they shift it to their pet project, they just replace them with IOU=pass the burden of paying back to next generation and let the next politicians that come along try to explain that
where do you think this tax cut money will come from? part of it will no doubt be coming from the SS fund...Bush just gonna put IOU in it as if nothing has really change...

Maybe we should see if Gore still has that lock box!

I just don't want to know what he's been keeping in it since the election

CkG

I wonder why 1 lockbox is good, but many lockboxes(personal accounts) are bad?

Now, Now It really isn't "OUR" money -it's the governments

CkG

Is anything really "ours"? If you don't pay taxes, you get your house taken away from you. In essence, we are paying rent to live in this country. Nothing is really ours.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl
SS is a really nasty (15%) TAX which is difficult to avoid unless you work for a 403b or are self employed and only pay yourself with loans. Avoid it at all costs since you'll never see it since they suck it dry for other BS.


From Onerys Link people should be going ape:


By the time the poop hits the fan I'll be smog particals.... but, on the oft chance I'm not ... I suggest a bomb tax... each bomb dropped requires a tax be paid by the citizen directly into the SS trust... No stealing it now... mr congress... same for bullets, missles, and ships, tanks etc... each element of destruction... we can call it FREEDOM TAX!!!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Is anything really "ours"? If you don't pay taxes, you get your house taken away from you. In essence, we are paying rent to live in this country. Nothing is really ours.

Wow - how socialist of you to say so. :disgust:

Thanks for reminding my that I'm really only here to serve the government. I thank God everyday that our government graciously lets me keep ~70% of my paycheck. Please forgive me for stepping out of line, I'll work extra hard and give them even more of my money now.

CkG

 

[Bleep]

Thanks for reminding my that I'm really only here to serve the government. I thank God everyday that our government graciously lets me keep ~70% of my paycheck. Please forgive me for stepping out of line, I'll work extra hard and give them even more of my money now

I can see that you resent having to pay for the roads you drive on and the military that keeps you safe, federal law inforcement that keeps you from being killed by some radical or even to pay the wages of the President and the people that represent you, you must be a incredibility sellfish person.

What a retort to the truth. You dont own anything you just rent it from the goverment, dont pay your property tax and you will see how much of it you own.
As to social security tax you have 2 choices either work for a place that does not come under the FICA law or go live somewhere else as some of you stated when this was the war thread.
Now I dont want to hear that there is nowhere you can work without FICA tax and if you say that you dont know much about our country and the FICA law.

Bleep

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Bleep

Thanks for reminding my that I'm really only here to serve the government. I thank God everyday that our government graciously lets me keep ~70% of my paycheck. Please forgive me for stepping out of line, I'll work extra hard and give them even more of my money now

I can see that you resent having to pay for the roads you drive on and the military that keeps you safe, federal law inforcement that keeps you from being killed by some radical or even to pay the wages of the President and the people that represent you, you must be a incredibility sellfish person.

What a retort to the truth. You dont own anything you just rent it from the goverment, dont pay your property tax and you will see how much of it you own.
As to social security tax you have 2 choices either work for a place that does not come under the FICA law or go live somewhere else as some of you stated when this was the war thread.
Now I dont want to hear that there is nowhere you can work without FICA tax and if you say that you dont know much about our country and the FICA law.

Bleep

Bleep - I was in no way saying that I don't believe that I shouldn't have to pay for the roads, law enforcement, and etc. I believe in paying my "fair share" of taxes. I could elaborate on my definition of "fair" but it'd take hours

My point was that we aren't here to serve the government but rather the government is supposed to serve/represent/protect us. Does it need revenue to do so? YES - and I'm sure I'll pay taxes until the day I die.

Just so we're clear on this - My fight isn't with the act of paying taxes but rather the governments use of the taxes it collects.

I hardly think the above is "selfish"

CkG

 

[BarneyFife]

So much do you want to pay for your "fair share"? I don't know about you, but I appreciate calling 911 and having the cops over in 2 minutes or knowing that my country won't be invaded by another nation. Its hard to put a price on it considering that most of the public servants are poorly paid.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
So much do you want to pay for your "fair share"? I don't know about you, but I appreciate calling 911 and having the cops over in 2 minutes or knowing that my country won't be invaded by another nation. Its hard to put a price on it considering that most of the public servants are poorly paid.

This really needs it's own thread (like we need another thread in this joint) but I'll give you a quick a dirty lowdown of my take on Income tax matters.

Income taxes that are "flat" in percentage would be nice in theory but in reality there needs to be a "floor". A few deductions could/should? also be allowed for items such as charitable donations, higher education(tuition and etc), and possibly a "per child" deduction. There are probably a couple "real" deductions I have missed but for the most part the rest of the "deductions" should be tossed in the circular file

That is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak in regards to Income tax and alot more explaination goes with it, but like I said - I'm not against "taxes" but rather the way the taxes collected are used.

I too am glad that Emergency help is 3 numbers away and that we have a strong military, but I also see tons of waste that needs to be stopped. I also see nothing wrong with your statement that alot of our public servants are grossly underpaid.

CkG

 

[cpumaster]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Bleep

Thanks for reminding my that I'm really only here to serve the government. I thank God everyday that our government graciously lets me keep ~70% of my paycheck. Please forgive me for stepping out of line, I'll work extra hard and give them even more of my money now

I can see that you resent having to pay for the roads you drive on and the military that keeps you safe, federal law inforcement that keeps you from being killed by some radical or even to pay the wages of the President and the people that represent you, you must be a incredibility sellfish person.

What a retort to the truth. You dont own anything you just rent it from the goverment, dont pay your property tax and you will see how much of it you own.
As to social security tax you have 2 choices either work for a place that does not come under the FICA law or go live somewhere else as some of you stated when this was the war thread.
Now I dont want to hear that there is nowhere you can work without FICA tax and if you say that you dont know much about our country and the FICA law.

Bleep

Bleep - I was in no way saying that I don't believe that I shouldn't have to pay for the roads, law enforcement, and etc. I believe in paying my "fair share" of taxes. I could elaborate on my definition of "fair" but it'd take hours

My point was that we aren't here to serve the government but rather the government is supposed to serve/represent/protect us. Does it need revenue to do so? YES - and I'm sure I'll pay taxes until the day I die.

Just so we're clear on this - My fight isn't with the act of paying taxes but rather the governments use of the taxes it collects.

I hardly think the above is "selfish"

CkG

when you're talking about your fair share, you should also take into consideration paying for the bad and inefficient share of the govt, ie wasteful spending, pork barrel project, NASA , foreign aid, etc etc as there are no trully 100% efficient govt in the world

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: cpumaster

when you're talking about your fair share, you should also take into consideration paying for the bad and inefficient share of the govt, ie wasteful spending, pork barrel project, NASA , foreign aid, etc etc as there are no trully 100% efficient govt in the world

I do



CkG

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
No, its not time to get rid of it. Social Security is a great backup plan and helps many many seniors. It also helps many children whose parents who die or become disabled. Just be thankful that you aren't 70 years old paying $300 a month in medication or had your parents die when you were young.

social security wasn't intended to be a sole source of income for seniors nor is it the program for orphaned kids

 

[IGBT]

The last numbers I saw indicated 10 trillion dollars of unfunded obligations..If they make us all retire at 150 years old they might make it.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
No, its not time to get rid of it. Social Security is a great backup plan and helps many many seniors. It also helps many children whose parents who die or become disabled. Just be thankful that you aren't 70 years old paying $300 a month in medication or had your parents die when you were young.

social security wasn't intended to be a sole source of income for seniors nor is it the program for orphaned kids

Thats why I said "backup". No its not intended since it isn't much money but it does help pay the ridiculously priced medication. Millions seniors struggle as it is right now. No reason to take away Social Security and put them deeper into poverty.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
No, its not time to get rid of it. Social Security is a great backup plan and helps many many seniors. It also helps many children whose parents who die or become disabled. Just be thankful that you aren't 70 years old paying $300 a month in medication or had your parents die when you were young.

social security wasn't intended to be a sole source of income for seniors nor is it the program for orphaned kids

Thats why I said "backup". No its not intended since it isn't much money but it does help pay the ridiculously priced medication. Millions seniors struggle as it is right now. No reason to take away Social Security and put them deeper into poverty.

Oh sure, why put seniors into poverty when we can put the whole $#@ nation into a $6.4 trillion (and counting) sink hole. Until we stop running deficits, Social Security and everything else needs to be cut.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Ornery
- inequitable drain on working families and their children, with little offered in return -

• The Federalist Papers of 1787 documented the four principal reasons for government in our Constitution - - national defense was number 1, and. social entitlements were not mentioned. Yet today, the sum of social security and medicare spending is twice as much as defense spending, and defense spending ratios are at a peace-time low - and, its the social 'entitlement' programs that are in trouble. Our founders left out of their principals social entitlements - with good reason.

Domestic tranquility....
In any event, they didn't envision the 11,12,13 ammendments at that time either not to mention the 16th... but, who knows what may be next... full health care for all the people... tax the rich real good so we can get good benifits... and I want food stamps too... and.... I want earned income tax credits sent to me so I can offset any FICA tax that I pay.
Ain't this country great... Ya gotta love it.... only In America...

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
No, its not time to get rid of it. Social Security is a great backup plan and helps many many seniors. It also helps many children whose parents who die or become disabled. Just be thankful that you aren't 70 years old paying $300 a month in medication or had your parents die when you were young.

social security wasn't intended to be a sole source of income for seniors nor is it the program for orphaned kids

Thats why I said "backup". No its not intended since it isn't much money but it does help pay the ridiculously priced medication. Millions seniors struggle as it is right now. No reason to take away Social Security and put them deeper into poverty.

"deeper into poverty" my ass. when broken down by age group the people receiving social security are the wealthiest segment of the population. and you can say backup but you know what, you're right, there are lots of people (don't know about millions) that do rely on it too much because they did not have the foresight to put money away for retirement.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: HJD1

Originally posted by: Ornery
- inequitable drain on working families and their children, with little offered in return -

• The Federalist Papers of 1787 documented the four principal reasons for government in our Constitution - - national defense was number 1, and. social entitlements were not mentioned. Yet today, the sum of social security and medicare spending is twice as much as defense spending, and defense spending ratios are at a peace-time low - and, its the social 'entitlement' programs that are in trouble. Our founders left out of their principals social entitlements - with good reason.

Domestic tranquility....
In any event, they didn't envision the 11,12,13 ammendments at that time either not to mention the 16th... but, who knows what may be next... full health care for all the people... tax the rich real good so we can get good benifits... and I want food stamps too... and.... I want earned income tax credits sent to me so I can offset any FICA tax that I pay.
Ain't this country great... Ya gotta love it.... only In America...

they did envision amendment 27 though

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
No, its not time to get rid of it. Social Security is a great backup plan and helps many many seniors. It also helps many children whose parents who die or become disabled. Just be thankful that you aren't 70 years old paying $300 a month in medication or had your parents die when you were young.

social security wasn't intended to be a sole source of income for seniors nor is it the program for orphaned kids

Thats why I said "backup". No its not intended since it isn't much money but it does help pay the ridiculously priced medication. Millions seniors struggle as it is right now. No reason to take away Social Security and put them deeper into poverty.

Oh sure, why put seniors into poverty when we can put the whole $#@ nation into a $6.4 trillion (and counting) sink hole. Until we stop running deficits, Social Security and everything else needs to be cut.

Better yet. Lets not spend billions and billions of money on a worthless war in Iraq. Cut foreign aid to Israel, Egypt, Russia, etc.. Of course you'd probably love to watch your grandma live on the street to save a "few bucks".

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
No, its not time to get rid of it. Social Security is a great backup plan and helps many many seniors. It also helps many children whose parents who die or become disabled. Just be thankful that you aren't 70 years old paying $300 a month in medication or had your parents die when you were young.

social security wasn't intended to be a sole source of income for seniors nor is it the program for orphaned kids

Thats why I said "backup". No its not intended since it isn't much money but it does help pay the ridiculously priced medication. Millions seniors struggle as it is right now. No reason to take away Social Security and put them deeper into poverty.

Oh sure, why put seniors into poverty when we can put the whole $#@ nation into a $6.4 trillion (and counting) sink hole. Until we stop running deficits, Social Security and everything else needs to be cut.

Better yet. Lets not spend billions and billions of money on a worthless war in Iraq. Cut foreign aid to Israel, Egypt, Russia, etc.. Of course you'd probably love to watch your grandma live on the street to save a "few bucks".

Dont worry, keeping SS as it is will only sure that future grandmas will be eating catfood and living on the street.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"It's an intergenerational transfer of wealth "

Just for the sake of argument, assuming you are 25 years old or younger, who paid to build the roads you drive on? The schools you attend ? Built the country you live in ?

That is intergenerational transfer of wealth, and it doesn't go in the direction you think it does.

I believe they also transferred us the debt for all these things as well

I think the National debts of Canada and most of Western Europe can be attributed to Social Policies, but for the US I would think that Military expenditures probably make up the better part of it's debt. A Google Search might turn up something.

Overspending across the board is the reason for our debts. To blame all the debt on aa single item in a budget is foolish.

True.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: HJD1

Originally posted by: Ornery
- inequitable drain on working families and their children, with little offered in return -

• The Federalist Papers of 1787 documented the four principal reasons for government in our Constitution - - national defense was number 1, and. social entitlements were not mentioned. Yet today, the sum of social security and medicare spending is twice as much as defense spending, and defense spending ratios are at a peace-time low - and, its the social 'entitlement' programs that are in trouble. Our founders left out of their principals social entitlements - with good reason.

Domestic tranquility....
In any event, they didn't envision the 11,12,13 ammendments at that time either not to mention the 16th... but, who knows what may be next... full health care for all the people... tax the rich real good so we can get good benifits... and I want food stamps too... and.... I want earned income tax credits sent to me so I can offset any FICA tax that I pay.
Ain't this country great... Ya gotta love it.... only In America...

they did envision amendment 27 though

Besides the pay they didn't even think people would make a living doing it and all year long... they now take all year to do what they use to do in weeks... sorta like me in reverse...