Social Security Reform

ciba

Senior member
Apr 27, 2004
812
0
71
Right now, it's apparent that someone will get the short end of the proverbial stick with social security. Right now, it looks like my generation. If we make significant changes, it may be seniors. Every plan irritates some group.

So the question is, if you had to choose a generation to bear the burden of social security reform, who should it be?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: ciba
Right now, it's apparent that someone will get the short end of the proverbial stick with social security. Right now, it looks like my generation. If we make significant changes, it may be seniors. Every plan irritates some group.

So the question is, if you had to choose a generation to bear the burden of social security reform, who should it be?



I think reform is possible without screwing either group.
 
May 10, 2001
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Despite cat calls of ?there is no problem? or ?we?ll only loose 1% GDP for 2 years? from the progressives, the fact is that we?ve got a Hague problem and progressives never properly factor in the true devastation of major tax hikes on the economy.

I think pegging social security to the inflation rate, creating a floating retirement age, based on projected life expectancy, and allowing personal investments in bonds of our choosing would do best to solve this problem.

Although the question of ?who?s going to buy our debt? comes up when we do this and means that private accounts aren?t going to be a good idea at all unless we can bring the deficit inline.
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
I say we find an island full of super-hot, sexually-depraved women and screw *them.*

How will that fix SS, you ask. Who cares! :p
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I asked this elsewhere.

Considering that SS doesnt get drawn down until 2018 and that old folks die, when do we REALLY run out of money?

I think that needs to be answered in fact to know if anyone is going to get screwed.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
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SS needs to be privatized. For the amounts you'd pay into SS over the course of your working life, you could have retired a millionaire had that money been invested in mutual funs and bonds.

Personally, I doubt SS will be around when I retire, and I'm not planning on having it. The sooner they privatize or abolish it, the better.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
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Originally posted by: Bateluer
SS needs to be privatized. For the amounts you'd pay into SS over the course of your working life, you could have retired a millionaire had that money been invested in mutual funs and bonds.

Personally, I doubt SS will be around when I retire, and I'm not planning on having it. The sooner they privatize or abolish it, the better.

Someone else said when everyone is a millionare, then no one is rich. Oh, I invest in retirement plans, but I hear a lot of rhetoric regarding the impending catastrophe, but when I push for concrete answers I get no solid responses.

What about the Brits?
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
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Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: ciba
Right now, it's apparent that someone will get the short end of the proverbial stick with social security. Right now, it looks like my generation. If we make significant changes, it may be seniors. Every plan irritates some group.

So the question is, if you had to choose a generation to bear the burden of social security reform, who should it be?



I think reform is possible without screwing either group.
That's laughable.
What do you propose?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Given the direction of federal finances under repub guidance, the obvious "screwees" are the Boomers, the ones who'll need the money set aside in the SS trust for that period of time between 2018 and whenever those switched to the private accounts start to retire. Switching SS contributions to those private accounts will also deplete the trust much faster than if folks were still contributing to the system. Instead of reduced benefits projected for 2042, it'd come a lot sooner... The other folks in trouble would be those paying taxes simply to maintain the monstrous debt being created today, and those at or near the upper age limit for any proposed switchover...

And, for once, I'll have to agree with LMK- there is no "nobody gets screwed" solution outside of fiscal responsibility in the general fund, although I doubt he understands the true extent of what that entails.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: ciba
Right now, it's apparent that someone will get the short end of the proverbial stick with social security. Right now, it looks like my generation. If we make significant changes, it may be seniors. Every plan irritates some group.

So the question is, if you had to choose a generation to bear the burden of social security reform, who should it be?



I think reform is possible without screwing either group.
That's laughable.
What do you propose?



Phase out current ponzi scheme over the next generation. Allow for investment in private accounts, raise retirment age for younger workers. This can be done without screwing anybody.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: ciba
Right now, it's apparent that someone will get the short end of the proverbial stick with social security. Right now, it looks like my generation. If we make significant changes, it may be seniors. Every plan irritates some group.

So the question is, if you had to choose a generation to bear the burden of social security reform, who should it be?



I think reform is possible without screwing either group.
That's laughable.
What do you propose?


I agree with Charrison on this. While I don't agree with his means, I think that if we get the pols and special interests out if this we can do something to everyone's advantage. It isnt the task which is so hard, it's keeping people from making a football out of this that's tough.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: ciba
Right now, it's apparent that someone will get the short end of the proverbial stick with social security. Right now, it looks like my generation. If we make significant changes, it may be seniors. Every plan irritates some group.

So the question is, if you had to choose a generation to bear the burden of social security reform, who should it be?



I think reform is possible without screwing either group.
That's laughable.
What do you propose?


I agree with Charrison on this. While I don't agree with his means, I think that if we get the pols and special interests out if this we can do something to everyone's advantage. It isnt the task which is so hard, it's keeping people from making a football out of this that's tough.


I really dont thnk you know what my means are. My means are protect those that have paid in, while making sure the younger workers like myrself are not screwedin the long run. The demographics of america change, and ss needs to change with it.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
I dont know if I will ever get social security. I have paid enough in already, that I should be able to receive it. Already they have raised the minumum age to receive it. If they do that again I most likely will die before i get old enough to qualify. I say lets abolish it now and let everyone starve to death. If I can not get mine then the people of today should have to feel the pain that I will have to feel. That is the only way people will understand what is going on and how washington has been stealing our future for the last 20 years. They have stolen the funds earmarked for social security, so let our elected officials feel our pain now.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Make no mistake about it, Bush's "reforms" will SCREW the <20 crowd.

A few key things to notice:

Bush's campaign for SS reform contains VERY FEW hard numbers. He typically throws a few dates at you without explaining what those dates mean.

You will NOT hear Bush mention that the first year transition costs for privatization will cost taxpayers $2 TRILLION. That's just the first year. The final total is estimated to be between $10 TRILLION and $15 TRILLION.

The trust fund will be solvent through at least 2040, and some estimates put it closer to 2050. After that, it will be unable to pay out full benefits. So yes, we will eventually run into a problem that needs to be fixed. But you are lying to yourself if you think Bush's reforms are the best solution we can think of.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Make no mistake about it, Bush's "reforms" will SCREW the <20 crowd.

A few key things to notice:

Bush's campaign for SS reform contains VERY FEW hard numbers. He typically throws a few dates at you without explaining what those dates mean.

You will NOT hear Bush mention that the first year transition costs for privatization will cost taxpayers $2 TRILLION. That's just the first year. The final total is estimated to be between $10 TRILLION and $15 TRILLION.

The trust fund will be solvent through at least 2040, and some estimates put it closer to 2050. After that, it will be unable to pay out full benefits. So yes, we will eventually run into a problem that needs to be fixed. But you are lying to yourself if you think Bush's reforms are the best solution we can think of.



Actually no plan has been released yet. The costs of doing nothing far outweigh the transition costs.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: piasabird
I dont know if I will ever get social security. I have paid enough in already, that I should be able to receive it. Already they have raised the minumum age to receive it. If they do that again I most likely will die before i get old enough to qualify. I say lets abolish it now and let everyone starve to death. If I can not get mine then the people of today should have to feel the pain that I will have to feel. That is the only way people will understand what is going on and how washington has been stealing our future for the last 20 years. They have stolen the funds earmarked for social security, so let our elected officials feel our pain now.



Well if it makes you feel any better, when ss was first set up, most people died before reaching retirment age. It has always been a cruel tax.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: ciba
Right now, it's apparent that someone will get the short end of the proverbial stick with social security. Right now, it looks like my generation. If we make significant changes, it may be seniors. Every plan irritates some group.

So the question is, if you had to choose a generation to bear the burden of social security reform, who should it be?

the people with the ability to pay.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Originally posted by: piasabird
Sounds like a democratic math class. What are your figures base on? A pie in the Sky?


The 15 Trillion figure was from a document from the White House (IIRC).


other numbers...


Click me!

Seems to have come directly from the SS administration data.
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
Originally posted by: ciba
Right now, it's apparent that someone will get the short end of the proverbial stick with social security. Right now, it looks like my generation. If we make significant changes, it may be seniors. Every plan irritates some group.

So the question is, if you had to choose a generation to bear the burden of social security reform, who should it be?

I don't know why someone necessarily has to get screwed. As far as I know there is no "specific" plan yet. All I've heard that even "teeters" on specific is something to the effect of "wouldn't it be cool if we ALLOWED people to CHOOSE how to spend SOME of THEIR OWN MONEY."

Granted, the devil is in the details, but I don't see a problem with the overview.

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
I say we find an island full of super-hot, sexually-depraved women and screw *them.*

How will that fix SS, you ask. Who cares! :p

I like how you think, man :) Who needs Social Security, we'll just screw those women until we die! :)

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
Originally posted by: Bateluer
SS needs to be privatized. For the amounts you'd pay into SS over the course of your working life, you could have retired a millionaire had that money been invested in mutual funs and bonds.

Personally, I doubt SS will be around when I retire, and I'm not planning on having it. The sooner they privatize or abolish it, the better.

I vote for abolish. That'll save us half a trillion bucks a year :)

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Make no mistake about it, Bush's "reforms" will SCREW the <20 crowd.

A few key things to notice:

Bush's campaign for SS reform contains VERY FEW hard numbers. He typically throws a few dates at you without explaining what those dates mean.

You will NOT hear Bush mention that the first year transition costs for privatization will cost taxpayers $2 TRILLION. That's just the first year. The final total is estimated to be between $10 TRILLION and $15 TRILLION.

The trust fund will be solvent through at least 2040, and some estimates put it closer to 2050. After that, it will be unable to pay out full benefits. So yes, we will eventually run into a problem that needs to be fixed. But you are lying to yourself if you think Bush's reforms are the best solution we can think of.

I'm sure it's true that Bush won't have all the answers to fix the problem. I'm sure it's true that NO ONE has all those answers (well, maybe Alan Greenspan, but no one is asking him...) but one thing obviously IS true: We've got to start thinking about the problem before it becomes a catastrophe.

Abu Hassan Al Jasoni
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: piasabird
I dont know if I will ever get social security. I have paid enough in already, that I should be able to receive it. Already they have raised the minumum age to receive it. If they do that again I most likely will die before i get old enough to qualify. I say lets abolish it now and let everyone starve to death. If I can not get mine then the people of today should have to feel the pain that I will have to feel. That is the only way people will understand what is going on and how washington has been stealing our future for the last 20 years. They have stolen the funds earmarked for social security, so let our elected officials feel our pain now.



Well if it makes you feel any better, when ss was first set up, most people died before reaching retirment age. It has always been a cruel tax.

But what's funny is that that generation bought it hook, line and sinker :)

Jason