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Social Security outflows to exceed payroll taxes this year

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Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Well, pretty soon push is going to come to shove and the U.S. will need to begin making hard choices about spending. The budget deficit is already $1.6 trillion this year, and that's before any money that will need to be added to cover any SS funding shortfall. Add in a few million more baby boomers retiring and collecting SS, the new healthcare law, and rising interest payments when (inevitably) the Federal Reserve starts raising rates, and the U.S. is in for some real pain. And unfortunately for the progressives/liberals here, your stock answers of "cut defense spending!" and "tax the rich!" won't be enough to fill the gap. If Obama is lucky, he won't get re-elected and have to face the ironic indignity of being forced to begin cutting social programs due to lack of resources, or for that matter lack of foreign deficit funding from the Chinese etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/business/economy/25social.html?hp

Don't want to bust your bubbble. But. There is no SS shortfall. The US government owes SS 7 trillion . That repayment should be included in every budget. What your saying is a lie. We paid in the money . We covered our asses. We didn't borrow the Noney to government they took it and now won't repay. In other words 7 trillion was stolen from us . Just try to restructure SS. You will find out your Dad is a better man than you are even at 65.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
Don't want to bust your bubbble. But. There is no SS shortfall. The US government owes SS 7 trillion . That repayment should be included in every budget. What your saying is a lie. We paid in the money . We covered our asses. We didn't borrow the Noney to government they took it and now won't repay. In other words 7 trillion was stolen from us . Just try to restructure SS. You will find out your Dad is a better man than you are even at 65.
So if the people are not responsible for the actions of their government, who is? glenn1's dad reaped the benefits of raping his own SS fund, and now the children are somehow responsible? I don't follow... I wouldn't call the boomers totally evil in all of this, but they were definitely complicit.

As much as I wish I could divorce myself from responsibility for the actions of my government (as so many people do), I can't allow myself the luxury. I will apologize to my children for every government action taken under my watch which I deem evil - and there are plenty of them. I also won't resent them if they refuse to pay out the benefits that my generation decides to manufacture for themselves. A law does imply a moral obligation. Especially not an evil law.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Don't want to bust your bubbble. But. There is no SS shortfall. The US government owes SS 7 trillion . That repayment should be included in every budget. What your saying is a lie. We paid in the money . We covered our asses. We didn't borrow the Noney to government they took it and now won't repay. In other words 7 trillion was stolen from us . Just try to restructure SS. You will find out your Dad is a better man than you are even at 65.
You're funny. What makes you think the money, once paid into SS, was yours? SS isn't a 401(k) - it's a tax. Once you pay it, you have no contractual right to it. See Flemming v. Nestor. The gov't can't steal what it already owned.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Which is better?

A) Cutting benefits to this year's generated income OR
B) Paying people out what they put in without taking inflation into consideration
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
So if the people are not responsible for the actions of their government, who is? glenn1's dad reaped the benefits of raping his own SS fund, and now the children are somehow responsible? I don't follow... I wouldn't call the boomers totally evil in all of this, but they were definitely complicit.

As much as I wish I could divorce myself from responsibility for the actions of my government (as so many people do), I can't allow myself the luxury. I will apologize to my children for every government action taken under my watch which I deem evil - and there are plenty of them. I also won't resent them if they refuse to pay out the benefits that my generation decides to manufacture for themselves. A law does imply a moral obligation. Especially not an evil law.
Hay I married an Indian . I know when white men speak with fork tongue.

You said this.

As much as I wish I could divorce myself from responsibility for the actions of my government (as so many people do), I can't allow myself the luxury.

Exactly whats the problem . Your government Mine also borrowed 7 trillion from SS. Now stand with your government and just repay that loan with interest and everthing is cool. Or you don't want to repay for money borrowed. Many the old paid there entire life. Until that 7 trillion is repayed they will fight . If great disasters come. and man has to depend on knowledge to survive it is our young that lack the basic knowledge of survivel in a world without supermarkets knowledge that was not passed on to you my children . You break commandment by disrespecting your parents. Your only way out is to default. Thats BS. Get rid of the corperate political traitorsers. Make America work for America.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
Hay I married an Indian . I know when white men speak with fork tongue.

You said this.

As much as I wish I could divorce myself from responsibility for the actions of my government (as so many people do), I can't allow myself the luxury.

Exactly whats the problem . Your government Mine also borrowed 7 trillion from SS. Now stand with your government and just repay that loan with interest and everthing is cool. Or you don't want to repay for money borrowed. Many the old paid there entire life. Until that 7 trillion is repayed they will fight . If great disasters come. and man has to depend on knowledge to survive it is our young that lack the basic knowledge of survivel in a world without supermarkets knowledge that was not passed on to you my children . You break commandment by disrespecting your parents. Your only way out is to default. Thats BS. Get rid of the corperate political traitorsers. Make America work for America.
The old paid a tax and allowed themselves to believe the lie (which they all knew to be a lie at the time) that it guaranteed them a return. I owe them nothing for that lie. I also expect nothing from Social Security despite paying my lawfully (but immorally) collected dues. If you think I owe more than that I'd like to hear you expound on the argument. Actually given your incoherent rambling, I'd rather not hear it but I'll wade through it anyways.

If the government over the course of my gainful employment attempts against my will to create entitlements which "obligate" them to pay me benefits, I will not resent my children for denying me my falsely construed "right" to them.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Which is better?

A) Cutting benefits to this year's generated income OR
B) Paying people out what they put in without taking inflation into consideration
If I choose B .Will everyone take a basic paycut back to the 1940s level . Or do you not want fairness. Can you see from self perspective only? Did not the Christ teach you in his wisdom to remove the sliver from your own eye befor passing judgement on a thing . Perspective is everthing . We out gun you by alot. We outnumber you by extreme amount . Because many families will remain loyal to mom and dad . Only those that have lost perspective shall suffer to the death . All others shall be reclaimed
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
The old paid a tax and allowed themselves to believe the lie (which they all knew to be a lie at the time) that it guaranteed them a return. I owe them nothing for that lie. I also expect nothing from Social Security despite paying my lawfully (but immorally) collected dues. If you think I owe more than that I'd like to hear you expound on the argument. Actually given your incoherent rambling, I'd rather not hear it but I'll wade through it anyways.

If the government over the course of my gainful employment attempts against my will to create entitlements which "obligate" them to pay me benefits, I will not resent my children for denying me my falsely construed "right" to them.
Hay enough stop making excuses Just pay back the 7 trillion and than tell us how we screwed up but not until you pay that 7 trillion back.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
Hay enough stop making excuses Just pay back the 7 trillion and than tell us how we screwed up but not until you pay that 7 trillion back.
What excuses did I make?

The government is paying that 7 trillion back by denying the claims that don't exist. There is no such thing as a contractual claim for SS benefits.

And you screwed up by believing that the government is capable of making a promise that it can enforce upon itself against its will. Such a thing can not be done. Believing otherwise is delusional. Stammer all you want that I can't tell you that until you get your 7 trillion, but you already got it - in the form of government spending over the decades they were raiding the fund. Plug your ears all you want but it's the simple truth.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
SS is screwed. Everybody knows it they just don't want to do anything about it and many who know it deep down have their head in the sand and won't see what is in front of them.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,260
4
81
Don't want to bust your bubbble. But. There is no SS shortfall. The US government owes SS 7 trillion . That repayment should be included in every budget. What your saying is a lie. We paid in the money . We covered our asses. We didn't borrow the Noney to government they took it and now won't repay. In other words 7 trillion was stolen from us . Just try to restructure SS. You will find out your Dad is a better man than you are even at 65.
You didn't pay in shit motherfucker.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
I paid in enough. But I have benefited. I speak not for self. But for those who will be screwed . and I know my kind they will bring this system down if push comes to shove .

You forget we already stood up once and when your old and pissed off future outlook is already indoubt you can get mean as hell. Swords wouldn't be a good deal . But Ma she can handle a rifle just fine. You take these peoples retirement money and they will bring us down. All of us. You see they have less to lose than does youth.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,260
4
81
I paid in enough. But I have benefited. I speak not for self. But for those who will be screwed . and I know my kind they will bring this system down if push comes to shove .

You forget we already stood up once and when your old and pissed off future outlook is already indoubt you can get mean as hell. Swords wouldn't be a good deal . But Ma she can handle a rifle just fine. You take these peoples retirement money and they will bring us down. All of us. You see they have less to lose than does youth.
You pay in a dollar and get five while I pay in five dollars and get a quarter. Fuck you greedy motherfuckers.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
It is only socialism that is collapsing. Just stop all payments on social security. Maybe some people will starve or be pushed out of their houses but the country as a whole will be all right. The worst that could happen is grandma might have to live in your den. Heaven forbid we strengthen family bonds.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
IMO, the baby boomers and those older should pay back the SS money they've double spent. So yes, that means I'm in the "add a tax" group on this one...BUT not on those of us who have not had a say for the last 40 years. Call it an "elder investment tax" or some happy hippie name just to sell it. The "progressives" will be all over it - right?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
The real effect of this is that federal government must now sell more regular treasury bonds to fund its reimbursement to the SS Trust for its special SS bonds. I.e., since the SS trust is short of funds, it needs to cash in some of its SS bonds with the government. Since the government doesn't have the cash on hand, it needs to raise some by selling T-Bonds.

So, MORE borrowing. More of our bonds flooding the market.

Will the US gov lose it's AAA rating? If so, even more of our GDP goes to debt service.

I'm afraid our governement will not be able to control its spending habits, instead lenders are going to have to provide that control for us. I wish they would hurry.

Fern
 

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