Soccor referee punched by 17yo and then dies

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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
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I would think that the ref's family does have a case for wrongful death, for sure. But that is a civil matter. Nothing criminal, as far as the ref's death goes, for the soccer player. Manslaughter is still a criminal charge. I think it goes way too far to charge the kid with anything relating to the death. Assault sure, manslaughter, no way.

It is textbook aggravated assault and involuntary manslaughter. Kid needs to be punished criminally. And since he is 17, any charges will be in adult court.

Hopefully they go after him for aggravated assault, because it carries a much stiffer sentence.
 
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nextJin

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2009
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Well at least no one that knows him is going to start shit.

"Dude he killed a guy with one punch! "
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
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Actually, isn't there a defintion of attempted murder as any blunt object striking above the shoulders? Is a fist not a blunt object?

i'm sure he didn't mean to kill him, so it's not murder, but manslaughter for sure. there are dozens of examples where people die from a single punch. . . people need to be held accountable for their actions.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
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Is the "punch" directly tied to cause of death or is this just more half assed posters blowing air?
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
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There was similar story about a kid who was repeatedly bullied and the school did nothing. He got punched in the back, a blood clot formed and he became paralyzed. Its one of those "how does that even happen" scenarios.
 
Oct 9, 1999
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kid need to learn how the real world works.

punish him to the full extent of the law. he murdered that guy.

no different than someone getting in a car drinking and driving. you never have the intent to kill someone with a vehicle but it still happens.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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Depending on state law, this act could possibly be prosecuted as second degree murder. Murder requires malice. Malice is an intent to kill or, in many cases, an intent to inflict serious bodily injury. So if you intend to harm someone but not kill them, it could be second degree murder.

Manslaughter is when you intended neither death nor injury but were negligent/reckless.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
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So what would be an example of manslaughter here?

From all the stories I have read regarding this event this was a single punch. If the kid was beating the man senseless and left him unconscious and bloodied I could see manslaughter being argued. This was a simple sucker punch and then the kid walked away.

By all accounts the ref "seemed fine" immediately following the altercation. No mentioned of even a bloodied lip or a black eye. Doesn't even say if the punch knocked him down. Who's to say that the ref wasn't in the best of health and the punch only aggravated some other issue. I mean, how often do you hear of a single punch killing a man?

Had the ref died a month from now after seemingly being fine would everyone still be out for blood?
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
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londojowo.hypermart.net
From all the stories I have read regarding this event this was a single punch. If the kid was beating the man senseless and left him unconscious and bloodied I could see manslaughter being argued. This was a simple sucker punch and then the kid walked away.

By all accounts the ref "seemed fine" immediately following the altercation. No mentioned of even a bloodied lip or a black eye. Doesn't even say if the punch knocked him down. Who's to say that the ref wasn't in the best of health and the punch only aggravated some other issue. I mean, how often do you hear of a single punch killing a man?

Had the ref died a month from now after seemingly being fine would everyone still be out for blood?

Not sure where you read he was just fine immediately following the punch.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ee-dies-after-punch-from-teenager-police-say/

Police said Portillo seemed fine at first, and then asked to be held because he felt dizzy. He sat down and started vomiting blood, triggering his friend to call an ambulance, according to authorities.
When Portillo arrived to the hospital, he slipped into a coma with swelling in his brain.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,381
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Police said Portillo seemed fine at first, and then asked to be held because he felt dizzy. He sat down and started vomiting blood, triggering his friend to call an ambulance, according to authorities.
When Portillo arrived to the hospital, he slipped into a coma with swelling in his brain.

Bleeding / swelling of the brain takes a moment. The story makes it sound like direct cause and effect of blunt force trauma to the brain.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
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Bleeding / swelling of the brain takes a moment. The story makes it sound like direct cause and effect of blunt force trauma to the brain.

Agreed but from the symptoms in the story one must wonder how a single punch leads to vomiting blood if there isn't any nose bleeds or cuts in the mouth. None of the stories mentioned that the ref was bloodied up in any way, just that he started vomiting blood.

Bleeding / swelling of the brain doesn't lead to vomiting blood. Perhaps all the stories are suffering from shitty reporting. Wouldn't be the first time.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
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What crime do think it falls under and why?

In most states it would be aggravated assault and involuntary manslaughter. The kid committed a crime, most like a felony, the question is which one are they going to charge him with.
 
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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
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Agreed but from the symptoms in the story one must wonder how a single punch leads to vomiting blood if there isn't any nose bleeds or cuts in the mouth. None of the stories mentioned that the ref was bloodied up in any way, just that he started vomiting blood.

Bleeding / swelling of the brain doesn't lead to vomiting blood. Perhaps all the stories are suffering from shitty reporting. Wouldn't be the first time.

Even if he did have an underlying condition, you take your victim as they are. Say a victim has a thin skull and its because of that thin skull they died(a person with a normal skull wouldnt have suffered the same injury), it doesn't matter they had a thin skull.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
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Agreed but from the symptoms in the story one must wonder how a single punch leads to vomiting blood if there isn't any nose bleeds or cuts in the mouth. None of the stories mentioned that the ref was bloodied up in any way, just that he started vomiting blood.

Bleeding / swelling of the brain doesn't lead to vomiting blood. Perhaps all the stories are suffering from shitty reporting. Wouldn't be the first time.

Because blood doesn't always come from the nose when you have a fracture of the skull/face. What probably happened was a fracture that caused internal bleeding that went through the back of his sinus cavities and into his throat. He vomited not because of the bleeding but because of brain trauma. It also doesn't say how much blood he through up.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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involuntary manslaughter
noun accidental homicide, accidental killing, accidental murder, killing with criminal negligence, killing with reckless disregard, killing without caution, killing without circumspection, unintentional homicide, unintentional killing, unpremeditated killing
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/involuntary+manslaughter


Pretty much a textbook definition of involuntary manslaughter. I feel sorry for the kid, kinda, but you gotta deal with your actions, and his actions constituted the act of involuntary manslaughter. I feel even worse for the family of the ref.
This.

Depending on state law, this act could possibly be prosecuted as second degree murder. Murder requires malice. Malice is an intent to kill or, in many cases, an intent to inflict serious bodily injury. So if you intend to harm someone but not kill them, it could be second degree murder.

Manslaughter is when you intended neither death nor injury but were negligent/reckless.
This even more. I like that definition - he might not have suspected he could kill the guy, but he definitely meant to damage him.

He got soccer punched.
If I go to Hell for laughing at that I am SO coming after you, pitchfork in hand!
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
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Because blood doesn't always come from the nose when you have a fracture of the skull/face. What probably happened was a fracture that caused internal bleeding that went through the back of his sinus cavities and into his throat. He vomited not because of the bleeding but because of brain trauma. It also doesn't say how much blood he through up.

Again, agreed. But that doesn't coincide with the story. If he had a fracture, again from a single punch, enough for him to vomit blood minutes later then he wouldn't have "seemed fine". This is all opinion because the stories, as I said, are likely suffering from shitty reporting.

You are right, it didn't indicate quantity but spit up and vomit seem to carry different meanings to most people. So it must have been a substantial amount to call it vomiting. Again, though, this relies on the reporting.

Waiting to see the results of the autopsy.