- Oct 10, 2002
I would have to mark you down as a conservative with a brain defect that causes faulty reasoning. To boldly state, as if it were some known fact, that reacting approvingly to a story about the terroristic killing by terrorists of other terrorists is fundamentally different that approving of it if you actually witnessed it is simply rationalization. There could be some differences such as in the latter case you might have also shit your pants, but when you consider the philosophical differences, or rather when folk who don't have defective brains consider them, there isn't a whit of difference. You simply can't approve of something you haven't justified because to justify is to approve and to approve is to justify.He is reacting to a story which is not the same thing as being there when a terrorist kills another terrorist and cheers on the perpetrator. But you are not brain dead and already figured that out and are now just creating drama, no?
Pray Tell is an actual phrase:ftfy,.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pray+tell?s=tMain Entry: pray tell Part of Speech: phr Definition: please do tell (about something)
Not my religion but here's what a Muslim I picked at random has to say:Does the religion also forbid the killing of innocent non-Muslims?
If they have accepted Islam then they won't be outsiders.http://somalilandsun.com/index.php/somalia/535-al-shabaab-execute-al-amriki
American teens must look ahead when they think they can go overseas and hook up with some terrorist group. They will always be outsiders. But hey it was cool while it lasted.
video of Al-Amriki
Quoting the Koran is one of the weakest sources and statements one can ever make. Basis for Islamic knowledge comes from Allah (the Koran) and Mohammed (the Sunna, found in the Sira and the Hadith). The next best true source of Islam is the Sharia. If it is in the Trilogy or Sharia, it is Islam. If it is not in the Trilogy or Sharia, it is not Islam. You cannot quote the Quaran without its supporting text. It will not make sense to any one. You maybe can fool people who has no knowledge about it or who has never read it but with me you are going to have a problem.Not my religion but here's what a Muslim I picked at random has to say:
Islam Forbids the Killing of Innocent People
According to Islam it is a great sin to kill an innocent person, and anyone who does so will suffer great torment in the hereafter:
...So We decreed for the tribe of Israel that if someone kills another person - unless it is in retaliation for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth - it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind. Our Messengers came to them with Clear Signs but even after that many of them committed outrages in the earth. (Qur'an 5: 32)
As we can see from the above verse, killing one innocent person is regarded as equivalent to killing all of mankind. In another verse, the importance that the faithful attach to life is expressed in these terms:
"Those who do not call on any other god together with Allah and do not kill anyone God has made inviolate, except with the right to do so, and do not fornicate; anyone who does that wil receive an evil punishment" (Qur'an 25: 68)
In yet another verse, God issues the following commandment:
Say: 'Come and I will recite to you what your Lord has made forbidden for you': that you do not associate anything with Him; that you are good to your parents; that you do not kill your children because of poverty - We will provide for you and them; that you do not approach indecency - outward or inward; that you do not kill any person God has made inviolate - except with the right to do so. That is what He instructs you to do so that hopefully you will use your intellect. (Qur'an 6: 151)
Any Muslim who believes in God with a sincere heart, who scrupulously abides by His words and fears suffering in the hereafter will avoid harming even one other person. That is because he knows that God is the Lord of Infinite Justice, and will suitably reward him for all his deeds. In one of the prophetic traditions, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) listed the kinds of people who are not pleasing to God.
'Those who act cruelly and unjustly in the sacred lands, those who yearn for the ways of the ignorant and those who wrongly shed human blood.' (Reported in Bukhari)
Islamic morality commands believers to behave justly when taking a decision, speaking or working, and in short in all areas of their lives. God's commandments in the Qur'an and the traditional ways of our Prophet describe that understanding of justice in great detail. All the messengers revealed to us in the Qur'an, brought peace and justice to all the communities they were sent to with their warnings and the prophets were a means whereby cruelty and despotism were lifted from the shoulders of the community of the faithful. As God has revealed in one verse;
Every nation has a Messenger and when their Messenger comes everything is decided between them justly. They are not wronged. (Qur'an 10: 47)
The most important feature of the Islamic understanding of justice is that it commands justice at all times, even if the person one is dealing with is very close to one. As God commands in another verse:
You who have faith! be upholders of justice, bearing witness for God alone, even against yourselves or your parents and relatives. Whether they are rich or poor, God is well able to look after them. Do not follow your own desires and deviate from the truth. If you twist or turn away, God is aware of what you do. (Qur'an 4: 135)
God commands you to return to their owners the things you hold on trust and, when you judge between people, to judge with justice. How excellent is what God exhorts you to do! (Qur'an 4:58)
As this verse makes clear, the wealth or social status of the person he is dealing with is of no importance to a believer. The important thing is fairness, that nobody should be treated unjustly, and the scrupulous implementation of the words of God. This is how it is commanded in another verse:
You who have Faith! show integrity for the sake of God, bearing witness with justice. Do not let hatred for a people incite you into not being just. Be just. That is closer to taqwa (God consciousness). Have taqwa of God. God is aware of what you do. (Qur'an 5: 8)
In this verse, God orders the faithful always to act justly, even when it comes to their own enemies. No Muslim can make a spontaneous decision on the basis that the person he is dealing with once harmed him or left him in a difficult situation, or that he is a personal enemy. If the other side is genuinely in the wrong, the Muslim has a duty to respond with good and to display the morality commanded by God.
God has issued the following commandment to believers:
God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just. (Qur'an 60: 8)
He has informed Muslims what the nature of their relationships with other communities should be. These verses are the very foundation of a believer's view of all other people. A Muslim's attitude towards others is formed not by the nature of the person he is dealing with, but rather by God's revelations in the Qur'an. That is why Muslims with pure hearts always support what is right. Their determination on this matter is revealed in these terms,
Among those We have created there is a community who guide by the Truth and act justly according to it. (Qur'an 7: 181)
Other verses on the subject of justice read:
God commands you to return to their owners the things you hold on trust and, when you judge between people, to judge with justice. How excellent is what God exhorts you to do! God is All-Hearing, All-Seeing. (Qur'an 4: 58)
Say: 'My Lord has commanded justice. Stand and face Him in every mosque and call on Him, making your religion sincerely His. As He originated you, so you will return.' (Qur'an 7: 29)
God commands justice and doing good and giving to relatives. And He forbids indecency and doing wrong and tyranny. He warns you so that hopefully you will pay heed. (Qur'an 16: 90)
According to the view of justice as set out in the Qur'an, the religion, race and gender of the person one is dealing with are of no importance. That is because Islam maintains that all races and genders are equal. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "All men come from the Prophet Adam, and the Prophet Adam comes from the earth,' there is no difference between people."(Reported by Ibn Majah) Features such as skin color, social status and wealth confer no superiority on anybody.
All over the world people are subjected to cruel treatment because of their race, language or skin color. Yet according to the Qur'an, one of the reasons for the creation of different tribes and peoples is that 'they should come to know one another.' All tribes and nations are the servants of God, and must come to know one another and learn their different cultures, languages, customs and abilities. One intention behind the existence of different nations and races is cultural wealth, not war and conflict. All true believers know very well that only godliness can impart superiority, in other words the fear of God and faith in Him. As God has revealed in the Qur'an:
Mankind! We created you from a male and female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you might come to know each other. The noblest among you in God's sight is the one with the most taqwa. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. (Qur'an 49: 13)
Elsewhere, He has revealed:
Among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and earth and the variety of your languages and colors. There are certainly Signs in that for every being. (Qur'an 30: 22)
When we look at the history of Islam we see many examples in which the faithful behaved with complete justice towards other races. Islam grew unbelievably quickly over a wide area, taking in Africa, Asia and Europe. The beauty of Islamic morality were thus spread by means of these conquests. Islam has spread to all races, nations, social structures and regions, and has brought millions of people together with a bond of brotherhood the like of which the world had never before seen.
Professor Hamilton Alexander Rossken Gibb in his book Whither Islam, describes the Islamic view of other races:
"No other society has such a record of success uniting in an equality of status, of opportunity, and of endeavors so many and so various races of mankind . . . Islam has still the power to reconcile apparently irreconcilable elements of race and tradition. If ever the opposition of the great societies of East and West is to be replaced by cooperation, the mediation of Islam is an indispensable condition." (H.A.R. Gibb, Whither Islam, London, 1932, p. 379)
Islamic morality aims at a society built on brotherhood, peace, freedom and security. That is why all communities that have come into contact with Islam have given up their oppressive, cruel and aggressive ways, and instead built a society built on peace. Many Western historians have expressed that fact in their works and stated how Islam had deep and positive effects on communities that came into contact with it. In his book The Making of Humanity, Professor Robert Briffault discusses the relationship between Western society and Islam:
"The ideas that inspired the French Revolution and the Declaration of Rights, that guided the framing of the American Constitution and inflamed that struggle for independence in the Latin American countries [and elsewhere] were not inventions of the West. They find their ultimate inspiration and source in the Holy Quran." (Prof. Robert Briffault, The Making of Humanity)
The truths in the above extracts are an indication of the way that Islamic morality has taught people about peace, tolerance and justice down the centuries. Nowadays, everybody is seeking just such a model, and there is no reason why such a culture should not once more come about. All that is necessary is for people to want to live by the morality of the Qur'an, beginning with themselves and later making efforts to spread it to other people. When the morality commanded in the Qur'an begins to be implemented everybody, from the very highest ranks to the very lowest, will be just, compassionate, tolerant, full of love, respectful and forgiving, and that will bring peace to the whole of society.
No it does not. First of all a unbeliever is called a Kafir. Islam is a civilization that is designed to extinguish all Kafir civilizations down to their last cultural vestige. Annihilation is Sunna and the last 1400 years of history is proof of the brutal efficiency of Islamic politics. Torture is allowed in the Sunna and the Koran recommends cutting off of hands and feet and crucifying Kafirs. Mohammed repeatedly tortured Kafirs, even to death. Torture of Kafirs is Sunna.Does the religion also forbid the killing of innocent non-Muslims?
But this is terrible. We are the believers, the true believers, not those infidels, and we have our nuclear weapons, our moabs and our predator drones to fight this. They try to crucify us or cut off our hands and feet and we'll practice mass barbecue on them. Damn terrorists. We'll teach them something about terror and it will be OK because it always is when we do it. And we're going to be particularly vigilant about this, because our Commander in Chief is half Kafir.No it does not. First of all a unbeliever is called a Kafir. Islam is a civilization that is designed to extinguish all Kafir civilizations down to their last cultural vestige. Annihilation is Sunna and the last 1400 years of history is proof of the brutal efficiency of Islamic politics. Torture is allowed in the Sunna and the Koran recommends cutting off of hands and feet and crucifying Kafirs. Mohammed repeatedly tortured Kafirs, even to death. Torture of Kafirs is Sunna.
If you are a Muslim and want to leave Islam, you become an apostate. An Islamic apostate can be killed. An apostate is even a worse creature than a Kafir. The Koran says that apostasy is a crime worse than mass murder.I figure there are Muslim folks and Kafir folks. One cannot be a good Muslim or a bad Muslim.... One is either Muslim or not. According to Muslim Doctrine as I understand it.
The goal of Muslim doctrine is to have only Muslim folks populate Earth and while in the process of that endeavor Kafir folks can be and are considered the scum of the earth and it is Muslim to treat them that way.
Muslim folks can use any form of Jihad to pursue their agenda which Mohammad did in dealing with the Kafir folks.
When a Muslim transitions to a more 'Christian' philosophy they are no longer Muslim. They too are Kafir... But, and from my point of view, they are a likable lot, otherwise they are Muslim and not at all my friend.
Muslim folks cannot nor ever will convince me that their deceptions (Jihad) of being my friend are real honest moves toward decency.
Kafir folks who are former Muslim folks, assuming I can tell the difference between them and Muslim folks while they try to befriend me - Muslim Jihad is the word I use to define the deception of the Muslim, can be and usually are quite peaceful and loving folks... But, who knows which is who...
I don't hate anyone but I sure don't trust anyone who practices any form of Jihad while also calling themselves Muslim...
No do not blame Bush or Obama. They do not know what Islam is themselves. No one wants to talk about or ask about it or ask the why of Islam because in todays society it is seen as political incorrect. So its avoided or the person trying to explain it is attacked personally. Official Islam is the Islam that the mainstream media, educators and government officials tell us is the “real” Islam. Official Islam half-truth and, it is false. It was not invented by the media, Bush or Obama, but by the Muslim Brotherhood. If they knew what Islam really was then they would have not invaded Iraq or Afghanistan nor would have taken any military action. You will never win with military action. The children in the middle east get told in school to kill anyone who invades muslim countries and that was the USA did. You did not invade Iraq you invaded Islam and any attack on Islam commands that they defend themselves. That means attack america or its citizens where ever.But this is terrible. We are the believers, the true believers, not those infidels, and we have our nuclear weapons, our moabs and our predator drones to fight this. They try to crucify us or cut off our hands and feet and we'll practice mass barbecue on them. Damn terrorists. We'll teach them something about terror and it will be OK because it always is when we do it. And we're going to be particularly vigilant about this, because our Commander in Chief is half Kafir.
Who? I asked what is a good muslim? No one gave me a answer yet. It is a question not a quotecave dweller
If your going to use Bill Warner's quotes you should acknowledge that, changing them a little bit still don't make them your own
Knowing now that your a follower of Warner, I have to ask if you also think of Anders Behring Breivik as a hero too?
What do you think of this response to some of Warren's crap?
Bill WarnerThe next best true source of Islam is the Sharia. If it is in the Trilogy or Sharia, it is Islam. If it is not in the Trilogy or Sharia, it is not Islam.
I'm sorry but I'm sticking with my notion that there are Muslim folks and everyone else.... Good bad or somewhere in between does not exist as I see it nor as Muhammad saw it as I understand it.If you are a Muslim and want to leave Islam, you become an apostate. An Islamic apostate can be killed. An apostate is even a worse creature than a Kafir. The Koran says that apostasy is a crime worse than mass murder.
The good Muslim question is what is a good muslim. What do believe believe is a good muslim. You do get bad muslims and good muslims. You see bad muslims more than you will see a good one. I will explain this when someone has given me a answer to what is qa good muslim.
I do not hate muslims or have anything against them. I just point out the effect that Islam have on me as a unbeliever (kafir) and I express my view from a kafirs point of view not muslims point of view.
I do, for one. Although I may not fully understand them. At the very least they are thought-provoking.Do people actually read moonbeam posts?
You can attack me or said this guy said so but you are jumping the gun. Whsat you say is irrelevant to the subject because when this subject pops up people avoid the real ISSUE and attack the person. Like this classic. Bill Warner said that but he was not the only one. A lot of people said that because it is the truth. Islam is the Quaran and the Sunna. Whatever attack you do on me or whatever your trying to google up is not going to change the fact that Islam is the Quaran and Sunna. Nothing because that is correct. Those are holy scriptures and you can say Hitler said that it is still not going to change the fact that Islam is the Quaran and the Sunna. Islamic law comes from Sharia. Go look it up. If some guys agree with me on a webpage that you googled up a million pages does not make the statement false does it? Because I took the Quaran and I read the Sunna myself and made up my own mind about I can stand my ground and can proof everything I say.Bill Warner
He wrote the stuff your plagiarizing.