So....You DIDN'T want a crane on your roof?

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Fritzo

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,920
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LOL @ "They should have filled it with water AFTER it was on the ground" comment.
 
DrPizza

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Boomer's going to be the expert on this, but I was thinking "why would you want the cable so short? That means you're going to have to have a much lower angle. Why are you swinging it so fast? It's going to be harder to stop it from swinging when you get it above where you want it.
 
Ichinisan

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Happened at a place where I used to work. Messed up a bunch of cars in the parking lot, including one right next to mine. In fact, a massively-heavy metal ball and hook was only a couple inches from the front of my car.
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,582
14,985
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That's odd...I can't imagine that thing weighing that much...but I can't tell from the video how big that crane is. Looks like 65-70 tons, but I just can't be certain.
HOWEVER, a 70 ton Link-Belt like that with all the boom stretched out only has a lifting capacity of 4900 pounds at 100 foot radius...and that includes the weight of the hook block which weighs between 700 and 1100 pounds by itself...leaving a load capacity of between 3800 and 4200 pounds at 100 feet from the center of the upper unit...not from the back of the rig.
Here's the load chart from a 70 ton crane of a similar model to that one.

http://www.bigge.com/crane-charts/truck-crane-charts/HTC8670LB.pdf

DrPizza said:
Boomer's going to be the expert on this, but I was thinking "why would you want the cable so short? That means you're going to have to have a much lower angle. Why are you swinging it so fast? It's going to be harder to stop it from swinging when you get it above where you want it.
Click to expand...

Actually Doc, other than weighing a bit less, (all that wire rope counts in the capacity of the crane) the length of the wire rope doesn't affect anything. It has no bearing on the angle of the boom because he has to get the tip of that boom over the point where the load goes. Having the load up high like that should help him avoid any obstacles...like the chimney...as long as the load doesn't interfere with the boom. Stopping the load from swinging is something every crane operator learns at an early age...or they don't become crane operators. I can swing around at full speed and stop on a dime, with only a tiny bit of pendulum action at worst. USUALLY, when I stop the hook, it's dead still. That's the standard in the industry.

Shit like this happens more often than you realize...but in the age of the internet, it gets more notice than it ever did before.

I have no doubt that crane operator had to go change his shorts after that.

I had an outrigger beam break one time. Dumped the crane...it's an ugly thing when the "dirty side" of those is in the air. That's the ONLY time...but I've come close a few times when the outrigger poked through the pavement into a previously unknown sewer line or catch basin that had been paved over...or the ground just gave way under the weight. The adrenaline certainly kicks in...
 
Zeze

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
11,395
1,189
126
So what happens to the owner in this case?

Does he get $$ just to cover the damage or win some serious cash because of time/labor/headache?
 
L

LordMorpheus

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2002
6,871
1
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BoomerD said:
That's odd...I can't imagine that thing weighing that much...but I can't tell from the video how big that crane is. Looks like 65-70 tons, but I just can't be certain.
HOWEVER, a 70 ton Link-Belt like that with all the boom stretched out only has a lifting capacity of 4900 pounds at 100 foot radius...and that includes the weight of the hook block which weighs between 700 and 1100 pounds by itself...leaving a load capacity of between 3800 and 4200 pounds at 100 feet from the center of the upper unit...not from the back of the rig.
Here's the load chart from a 70 ton crane of a similar model to that one.

http://www.bigge.com/crane-charts/truck-crane-charts/HTC8670LB.pdf



Actually Doc, other than weighing a bit less, (all that wire rope counts in the capacity of the crane) the length of the wire rope doesn't affect anything. It has no bearing on the angle of the boom because he has to get the tip of that boom over the point where the load goes. Having the load up high like that should help him avoid any obstacles...like the chimney...as long as the load doesn't interfere with the boom. Stopping the load from swinging is something every crane operator learns at an early age...or they don't become crane operators. I can swing around at full speed and stop on a dime, with only a tiny bit of pendulum action at worst. USUALLY, when I stop the hook, it's dead still. That's the standard in the industry.

Shit like this happens more often than you realize...but in the age of the internet, it gets more notice than it ever did before.

I have no doubt that crane operator had to go change his shorts after that.

I had an outrigger beam break one time. Dumped the crane...it's an ugly thing when the "dirty side" of those is in the air. That's the ONLY time...but I've come close a few times when the outrigger poked through the pavement into a previously unknown sewer line or catch basin that had been paved over...or the ground just gave way under the weight. The adrenaline certainly kicks in...
Click to expand...

Do they have any operator aids on these things?

It should be a pretty direct controls problem to implement the equivalent of stability control on one of these and have the load stop on a dime without the operator having to be an expert.

Also, it seems like it would be easy to give the operator warning that he was coming close to tipping the thing over.
 
herm0016

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,524
1,132
126
I would think most cranes of that size would include a load cell above the hook. Some of our cranes have these that set off an alarm at whatever your load is for your boom angle.

i don't operate myself too often, my crew usually runs our crane. We have never had an incident.

we have national 900A cranes. our max capacity is 52,000 lbs. a boom angle of 45* has a cap of about 10,000 and 34* is about 1,000 lbs.
 
skyking

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,824
5,993
146
LordMorpheus said:
Do they have any operator aids on these things?

It should be a pretty direct controls problem to implement the equivalent of stability control on one of these and have the load stop on a dime without the operator having to be an expert.

Also, it seems like it would be easy to give the operator warning that he was coming close to tipping the thing over.
Click to expand...
NO real need to aid the operator on swing. That was a very sloppy pick from the start. No tag lines present, they did not have the crane as far back as it could have been. They did not measure the job properly. You have to be WAY over chart capacity to get that result.

Modern cranes are equipped with load sensing systems. After they get into the field and get used, they don't always work. Sometimes operators will disable them to get rid of the annoying beeping. The beeping that signifies they are operating out of limits!!!
 
Twista

Twista

Diamond Member
Jun 19, 2003
9,646
1
0
Do you guy think the operator under esimated the true weight of that hot tub? Probably thought it was going to be a simple job. I drive a forklift daily and sometimes get cocky with heavy stuff thinking its light which results in my ass end being raised off the ground then slammed on the ground hard.
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,582
14,985
146
herm0016 said:
I would think most cranes of that size would include a load cell above the hook. Some of our cranes have these that set off an alarm at whatever your load is for your boom angle.

i don't operate myself too often, my crew usually runs our crane. We have never had an incident.

we have national 900A cranes. our max capacity is 52,000 lbs. a boom angle of 45* has a cap of about 10,000 and 34* is about 1,000 lbs.
Click to expand...

Actually, most "modern cranes" have a load moment indicator system (nowadays also called rated load indicator or rated load limiter) that has a built-in load sensing device. No more of the old style load cells. The switch above the hook is the anti-two block switch...to keep the operator from pulling the load block into the head sheaves....which can be very dangerous.
Unfortunately, it's far too common for operators to by-pass the cut-outs an over-ride the system. I had keys for every common make of crane and computer system so that I COULD by-pass the system in an emergency situation...but didn't operate that way under normal conditions. Like most "old-time operators," I don't like a computer taking the control away from me...but I learned to work WITH the system instead of against it...but lots of old-timers never could make the adjustment, and fought their computer system all the time.


skyking said:
NO real need to aid the operator on swing. That was a very sloppy pick from the start. No tag lines present, they did not have the crane as far back as it could have been. They did not measure the job properly. You have to be WAY over chart capacity to get that result.

Modern cranes are equipped with load sensing systems. After they get into the field and get used, they don't always work. Sometimes operators will disable them to get rid of the annoying beeping. The beeping that signifies they are operating out of limits!!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, the lack of tag lines was one of the first things I noticed...and a visible signal man guiding him. There's no excuse for what happened...from hitting the chimney, to the trees, to dumping the crane.
Piss-poor lift engineering and planning, piss-poor jobsite performance, just an all around piss-poor job.

A crane operator should never use his LMI system to replace common sense...or printed load charts, but rather, as a tool to make the job go more safely.
 
RelaxTheMind

RelaxTheMind

Platinum Member
Oct 15, 2002
2,245
0
76
Zeze said:
So what happens to the owner in this case?

Does he get $$ just to cover the damage or win some serious cash because of time/labor/headache?
Click to expand...

damages from contractors are usually covered by the guilty party's insurance and depending on which insurance company will also cover time/temp housing if necessary. the "headache" requires taking someone to court which usually ends up being a settlement.
 
Squisher

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Speaking about load limiters, I remember when the maintenance dept. had to rent this crane to get a flywheel out of our bigest press. The lift required two cranes hooked to the flywheel bacause there wasn't enough headroom to snatch the flywheel straight up so each was actually yanking on it at an angle. They got the flywheel up in the air about 6" when the rented crane's load limiter shut it down. About 20 people involved in the lift stood around for about an hour while long distant phone calls were made and disclaimers where signed and faxed before they would tell them how to disable the on board computer.
 
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