So WTF HAPPENED TO CALIFORNIA'S MONEY

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CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: manly
Originally posted by: CheapArse
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: CheapArse
the 'energy crisis' is what happened to our money...stupid davis didnt know what to do, and moron bush wouldnt help.


WTH would Bush even meddle in this issue, it is a state issue. Bush did exactly what should have been done, keep the feds out of a state issue. God, some of you just like to blame Bush for everything. Maybe, because you don't have an intelligent argument.

quick to hop on the band wagon of pointing fingers yourself, and i blame bush for nothing....except that he is a moron. I said stupid Davis didnt know what to do and sat there.
And you'd be wrong. While the government arguably could have foreseen the energy crisis breaking out earlier, once it actually hit, the doomsday scenario was quickly defused. Or how quickly we have forgotten.

The main problem is that in the process, (mostly out of state) energy companies raped CA for $10 billion, and that relatively expensive long-term contracts were signed. If FERC would simply do its job, both of these transgressions could be fixed in one way or another.

And I wouldn't call it a state issue when a handful of western states were being held hostage by energy traders engaging in market manipulation and in some cases, fraud. At the time, Dick Cheney basically said the markets were sound and would self-correct. Obviously, he was flat-out wrong.


Fraud or not, that is still a state issue. And nobody forced California to sign expensive long-term contracts. I agree FERC should have paid more attention, but Cali should have been more careful in their negotiations.

 

toant103

Lifer
Jul 21, 2001
10,514
1
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Originally posted by: NeuroSynapsis
Originally posted by: Vic
How about instead of raising taxes, they cut costs, waste, and corruption?

they've cut into the budget at my school pretty well
rolleye.gif


no summer classes because of lack of funds = the suck

good thing i'm done with school
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,572
4,235
136
Sure, electricity deregulation would result in a glut of cheap power if a state wanted to dirty its air just half as badly as Texas.

The point is that Gov. Pete Wilson personally championed deregulation, and got it through Congress. But Davis gets all the blame for having to mop up the mess. Not that Wilson walked away from his governership with his political career intact. He is a major reason why the state GOP is virtually irrelevant (except at blocking any budget resolution progress w/ their 34% representation; not that Democratic state congressmen have done any better). For all his faults, Davis has proposed a painful budget that by virtually all accounts is centrist and will solve the fiscal crisis. Unfortunately, state congressmen are still playing partisan politics as bank accounts (already on borrowed money) run empty.
 

Imported

Lifer
Sep 2, 2000
14,679
23
81
I blame Davis.. and what do people do? Re-elect him.. bleh..

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. :p
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,572
4,235
136
Originally posted by: CPA

Fraud or not, that is still a state issue. And nobody forced California to sign expensive long-term contracts. I agree FERC should have paid more attention, but Cali should have been more careful in their negotiations.
If it's solely a federal issue, then what does FERC exist for? They should have been dismantled a long time ago then. Obviously, they have a stated goal in policing energy markets (I'd have to research the actual language & responsibilities). You also need to remember that energy isn't like other traded commodities; most of us can live without pork barrels but people die if energy blackouts persist. The fact of the matter is that their was no actual supply-side shortage as you somewhat suggest with your "no new plants" comment. Supplies were very tight (as CA gas supplies are today), but the crisis was a manufactured assault on market prices, not a supply shortage. Multiple schemes were concocted for the sole purpose of generating large profits.

Secondly, I'm not a lawyer, but it's common knowledge that contracts signed under duress created by fraudulent activities are essentially not enforceable. The "force" to negotiate contracts was applied through pricing control that threatened constant rolling blackouts that would have resulted in lives lost. If I hold a gun to your head, I can't force you to sign over your life savings on threat of death. If I did, no court would uphold that contract. What FERC is arguing about now is degree of wrong-doing, statute of limitations as set by law, and also provability of illegal trading (among other factors). I don't expect CA to ever see a single dime in refunds, but you can't simply argue that contracts are iron-clad under all conditions (which is your implication).
 

phantom309

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2002
2,065
1
0
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: CheapArse
the 'energy crisis' is what happened to our money...stupid davis didnt know what to do, and moron bush wouldnt help.


WTH would Bush even meddle in this issue, it is a state issue. Bush did exactly what should have been done, keep the feds out of a state issue. God, some of you just like to blame Bush for everything. Maybe, because you don't have an intelligent argument.

Of course Bush did nothing. His friends at Enron and Duke Energy were getting incredibly rich by manipulating California's energy market. He did exactly what he was apparantly elected to do - protect the interests of the very rich. That is what you conservatives wanted, right?
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: phantom309
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: CheapArse
the 'energy crisis' is what happened to our money...stupid davis didnt know what to do, and moron bush wouldnt help.


WTH would Bush even meddle in this issue, it is a state issue. Bush did exactly what should have been done, keep the feds out of a state issue. God, some of you just like to blame Bush for everything. Maybe, because you don't have an intelligent argument.

Of course Bush did nothing. His friends at Enron and Duke Energy were getting incredibly rich by manipulating California's energy market. He did exactly what he was apparantly elected to do - protect the interests of the very rich. That is what you conservatives wanted, right?

Hey loser, all that stuff went on during Clinton's reign. It only became public when Bush took office. Get your facts straight before you make yourself look like an idiot.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: NeuroSynapsis
Originally posted by: Vic
How about instead of raising taxes, they cut costs, waste, and corruption?
they've cut into the budget at my school pretty well
rolleye.gif


no summer classes because of lack of funds = the suck
The problem with taxes in this country is that there are too many people who don't have to pay them, and a government who capitalizes off that fact every election.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Originally posted by: CheapArse
the 'energy crisis' is what happened to our money...stupid davis didnt know what to do, and moron bush wouldnt help.


Why should Bush have helped? California voted against him in the election. Payback is a motherfvcker!


oh i forgot, bush is not president of the united states, but the president of the southern states.
just goes to show how much of an ass he really is.


unelected f*ckhead anyways.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
I am actually enjoying this.
There are too many people in CA leaching off the state. All the welfare moms in my apt building will be mighty peeved when their benefits are cut.
Hopefully the police services won't be cut too much, otherwise, it's time to get a gun ;)