So... why isn't P&N discussing the two American journalists who were arrested in North Korea?

[Dacalo]

Originally posted by: OCguy
The real answer to why they dont get as much media coverage as they should:


They are of Korean descent.

Uh no. Only Lee is. Ling is Chinese.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Dacalo

Uh no. Only Lee is. Ling is Chinese.

Well sadly many Americans cannot differentiate between China and Korea on a map, and certainly not by looks. You knew what I was getting at (Even though I guess I kind of did the same thing. But I had sworn I heard they were both Korean)

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

*snip*


Our FBI nabs people outside our borders for crimes within our borders - expect NK to be able to do the same.

Not even close to being the same thing, really.

Why?

If they broke the laws while in NK then NK should be able to capture them even if outside of NK.

They are saying they captured them in NK. Others are saying that NK didnt like them snooping near the border, and crossed into China to nab them. (Much like the Persians did a couple years back)

It would be extremely illegal for them to do this.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

*snip*


Our FBI nabs people outside our borders for crimes within our borders - expect NK to be able to do the same.

Not even close to being the same thing, really.

Why?

If they broke the laws while in NK then NK should be able to capture them even if outside of NK.

They are saying they captured them in NK. Others are saying that NK didnt like them snooping near the border, and crossed into China to nab them. (Much like the Persians did a couple years back)

It would be extremely illegal for them to do this.

If they never entered NK then it is a problem.
If they enterd NK at any time illegally or even if legal and proceeded to break the guidelines then NK can nab them anywhere.

The article indicates that they fled across a frozen river and were caught near the middle.
Rivers usually have the centerline as a boundary between countries
That implies that they were on the NK side - the article also states that they intended on going into NK.

From another article

A Christian pastor in South Korea, who introduced them to defectors living in Chinese border towns, says that he warned them to stay clear of the river border itself, which is easily crossed when it is frozen or at a low ebb.

A South Korean news agency reported that they had crossed the river and then ignored warnings to stop shooting footage inside North Korea. Another report claimed that they were arrested as they ran back across the river, alleging that they were pursued by soldiers into China

 

[sapiens74]

its amazing what actually qualifies someone to be a journalist nowadays

They shouldn't have been there

They will pardon them

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Outside of going to war, what can the US do about this?

Another excuse to kiss up to NK and pat them on the head.
That will get the ladies released.

Difficult to impose sanctions on a country when people are determined to impeded such actions.

If left there; the US is considered to be cruel hearted and uncaring about its citizens.
Paying the bribe for their release causes the attention cycle / problems start all over. Reporters will expect to get bailed out whenever they step on toes.
Sanctions are again expect to mean nothing.

Sanctions we impose on NK don't seem to have worked very well in the past, do they? So what CAN we really do about this in the short term? In the long term, we need to lean on China, since they have more influence with NK and more of a desire to not piss us off than NK does.

Sanctions that we have imposed get quickly lifted by us whenever NK starts to rattle the sabres.

Much is because we are/were afraid of what China might do.

Everytime NK loses attention on the world stage; they find a way to get back via missle launches; threats against SK and/or nuke activities.

To counter such "aggression", the world hands out presents and NK is a happy little child.

As you stated, until China steps in and backs the world up, nothing will get done - rinse and repeat with the gift giving.

My point was that a lot of people like to complain that we're not "doing anything" when it comes to NK, that talking to them is bad, that we're being wimpy, etc, etc...yet alternative ideas are rarely suggested. You mock "handing out presents", which is fair enough, I suppose...so what do you think we SHOULD be doing instead?

Tactical nukes, we have here a rogue state that kidnaps people off of foreign soil, has real WMDs, a shit-crazy dictator and we waste time arguing about it.

 

[Ichigo]

Originally posted by: OCguy
This story is interesting because the liberals are so conflicted.

On one hand, you have big-bad infidel American citizens being punished by a US enemy. This makes the bleeding-hearts happy.

On the other hand, you have a long sentence of Hard Labor that could easily kill someone, which liberals should be against. In regards to US punishment, the liberals get mad that a Sheriff in Arizona has inmates stay outside in tents and wear pink underwear.

On another hand, the media is not really covering this because they are Korean, so the lefties should be foaming at the mouth.


And to top it off, this is a border crossing issue. Even if they did cross like Pyongyang says they did, arent liberals for open borders?



The fact that #1 (an enemy getting to punish US Citizens) is trumping the rest in most of the liberal comments on this I am seeing is amazing. They will set aside the rest of their values because of negative press for the US.

*ding*

 

[Patranus]

What I find most ironic about this situation is the Liberal attitude towards other countries.

America has a president who is going around the world stating that America should not project its values on other countries and that America has shown arrogance on the world stage.

Yet in this situation Liberals are doing BOTH.

While Liberals call the incarceration and punishment of these reporters "unjust", they fail to realize that they are projecting THEIR values onto North Korea. Additionally, the arrogance of these two reporters, thinking that they are above the law of other countries is astounding.

Liberals do this day in and day out with such issues as Tibet and Darfur. Liberal values states that events occurring in these locations are "unjust" but fail to see the fact that they are the ones who are projecting THEIR values onto other societies, societies which may or may not share the same values.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Nk supposedly has a confession that the woman were being bad.

However, most of us will take any confession from a totalitarian regime with a couple of grains of salt

thread

SEOUL, South Korea ? Two American journalists sentenced in Pyongyang last week to 12 years' hard labor were detained in North Korean territory after crossing into the country illegally, state-run media said Tuesday, providing the first details about the circumstances of their arrest.

Laura Ling and Euna Lee of Current TV were taken into custody on the North Korean banks of the Tumen River after crossing over from China illegally three months ago, the official Korean Central News Agency said.

The women, tried in North Korea's highest court earlier this month, "admitted and accepted" their punishment of 12 years' hard labor for committing politically motivated "criminal acts," the report said.

"The accused admitted that what they did were criminal acts committed, prompted by the political motive to isolate and stifle the socialist system of the DPRK by faking up moving images aimed at falsifying its human rights performance and hurling slanders and calumnies at it," it said.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Hold 2 American journalists in a labor camp for trying to report on a brutal regime.. A-OK with the lefties - they deserved it. Hold terrorists in Gitmo for trying to kill Americans.. OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PUN]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Hold 2 American journalists in a labor camp for trying to report on a brutal regime.. A-OK with the lefties - they deserved it. Hold terrorists in Gitmo for trying to kill Americans.. OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!!

you are misunderstanding something. Obama has problem with the type of interrogations that was involved in the Guatamala, not just holding the terrorists.

 

[Patranus]

Funny. The news says that they made a video of their crossing. Hmmm, sounds like an open and shut case to me.

 

[JKing106]

They broke the North Korean's law. So sorry, break them rocks.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Hold 2 American journalists in a labor camp for trying to report on a brutal regime.. A-OK with the lefties - they deserved it. Hold terrorists in Gitmo for trying to kill Americans.. OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's not turn this into some OMG BLAME OBAMA or LEFT WING thing... I think this is a huge test of American foreign policy. NK is playing a game just like Taiwan did once before. They want the US to come out and apologize and then sit down to talk. Taiwan played games with China to get the US to sit everyone down at a table to talk. The goal was for Taiwan to be recognized as another party, and the reason the US didn't want to have to play mediator and have both sides sit down was because it didn't want to get into this one-China business. Well here you have it again. NK wants us to simply send a diplomat or envoy of some sort to go talk to them. That's all. They want US recognition of NK power and NK authority. Once we accept that yes they indeed hold some power, or at least publicly acknowledge this, then NK smiles and releases our journalists. That's it.

So it all depends how hardline Obama goes. He could be like Bush and throw North Korea back on the Axis of Evil and terror watch list or whatever, or he could use Bush's stern warnings. Or he could take a weakass Clintonian approach and bow down and promise humanitarian aid. Who knows? I mean it's a lose lose situation, and right now it's easier to leave the journalists in camp unfortunately.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Funny. The news says that they made a video of their crossing. Hmmm, sounds like an open and shut case to me.

Yep. The idiocy of these morans confounds me. Granted, 12 years is pretty harsh.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Patranus
What I find most ironic about this situation is the Liberal attitude towards other countries.

America has a president who is going around the world stating that America should not project its values on other countries and that America has shown arrogance on the world stage.

Yet in this situation Liberals are doing BOTH.

While Liberals call the incarceration and punishment of these reporters "unjust", they fail to realize that they are projecting THEIR values onto North Korea. Additionally, the arrogance of these two reporters, thinking that they are above the law of other countries is astounding.

Liberals do this day in and day out with such issues as Tibet and Darfur. Liberal values states that events occurring in these locations are "unjust" but fail to see the fact that they are the ones who are projecting THEIR values onto other societies, societies which may or may not share the same values.

:roll:

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Patranus
What I find most ironic about this situation is the Liberal attitude towards other countries.

America has a president who is going around the world stating that America should not project its values on other countries and that America has shown arrogance on the world stage.

Yet in this situation Liberals are doing BOTH.

While Liberals call the incarceration and punishment of these reporters "unjust", they fail to realize that they are projecting THEIR values onto North Korea. Additionally, the arrogance of these two reporters, thinking that they are above the law of other countries is astounding.

Liberals do this day in and day out with such issues as Tibet and Darfur. Liberal values states that events occurring in these locations are "unjust" but fail to see the fact that they are the ones who are projecting THEIR values onto other societies, societies which may or may not share the same values.

:roll:

We know. The truth confuses you. Think about it for a while, you'll get it eventually.

 

[Synomenon]

So, looks like Kim Jong Il has pardoned them.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s...ME=2009-08-04-14-47-12

 

[DaveSimmons]

"Bill Clinton heads to North Korea to pick up two women"

:thumbsup: to Fark