So why has Obamacare failed to live up to it's hype of cheap insurace?

[Vic]

Less than the cost of the expenditures for all the social programs we dole out to them?

What kind of a question is that? Even if it costs a couple grand to pick them up and tranport them back, it's far less than we, as a country will spend on them for all the programs they take advantage of. My immigrant relatives who did it the right way will feel much more dignity. It pisses them off that these illegals can just come here the way they do and then demand that we serve them with all kinds of benefits.

So you think that finding and deporting 11 million people will only cost a couple grand? Seriously?

No really. . The cost of deporting the illegals will easily cost more than anything this country has ever paid for in the past.

 

[pcgeek11]

You can deport all you wish and accomplish nothing! Obama has deported more than any other president as has been proclaimed over and over...

It doesn't do a damn thing unless you Fix The Border! Obama hasn't done shit for that neither has any other politician. They all suck in this regard.

 

[Vic]

And how much is it going to cost to "fix the border" so it keeps the "wrong people" out without keeping the "right people" in?

 

[compuwiz1]

And how much is it going to cost to "fix the border" so it keeps the "wrong people" out without keeping the "right people" in?

Secure the border and we can cull the rest. Why do you care about the cost? It would cost far less to create an iron clad border and enforce the laws, than to continue on the path we have been on.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Because Obamacare was never about cheaper insurance.

That is correct--because Obamacare is NOT a health care system. Obamacare is merely a mandate for people to purchase insurance and a list of regulations on insurance companies. It does nothing to address the underlying causes of health care costs.

I suspect that, if anything, we are going to find that the total cost of providing health care for 100% of the population under our current health care system ends up being higher than the current 17% of GDP we are currently paying, making the gap between our nation's health care costs and those of the most expensive evil socialized medicine system wider.

 

[compuwiz1]

Sad what we are focusing on right now, rather than trying to be more productive, as individuals. Have we, as a society, really fallen down that bad?

 

[Angry Irishman]

Yes, we are falling down... "if it's too good to be true.......

This statement, from the Obamacare fee post, sums up this bat shit crazy ideal of which the ACA represents. I wish this was a troll post but I think the guy really believes this social utopia exists:

"As human beings we are all intrinsically tied together. This nation has been fortunate for those whose greatest virtues are greed, selfishness, and just general inhumanity. Those days are over, the United States has joined the world in understanding that you are your brother's keeper. There is nothing more certain that makes society than the cold hard percentage of tax. If you like renounce your citizenship and make a go of it in some obscure jungle."

Yea, I think we as a nation are heading down the wrong road...big time.

 

[compuwiz1]

Yes, we are falling down... "if it's too good to be true.......

This statement, from the Obamacare fee post, sums up this bat shit crazy ideal of which the ACA represents. I wish this was a troll post but I think the guy really believes this social utopia exists:

"As human beings we are all intrinsically tied together. This nation has been fortunate for those whose greatest virtues are greed, selfishness, and just general inhumanity. Those days are over, the United States has joined the world in understanding that you are your brother's keeper. There is nothing more certain that makes society than the cold hard percentage of tax. If you like renounce your citizenship and make a go of it in some obscure jungle."

Yea, I think we as a nation are heading down the wrong road...big time.

What you quoted smells like a post from our own resident "Generator". Too late for me to go find it, but I'll bet it is. Good night!

Edit: I was right! http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2360871

Post#5

As human beings we are all intrinsically tied together. This nation has been fortunate for those whose greatest virtues are greed, selfishness, and just general inhumanity. Those days are over, the United States has joined the world in understanding that you are your brother's keeper. There is nothing more certain that makes society than the cold hard percentage of tax. If you like renounce your citizenship and make a go of it in some obscure jungle.

 

[michal1980]

Keep going with the misinformation it makes you seem super bright.

and you'll die like you live miserable and angry blaming everyone else for your unhappiness

but he's right when he says they pay no federal income taxes.

 

[glenn1]

So you think that finding and deporting 11 million people will only cost a couple grand? Seriously?

No really. . The cost of deporting the illegals will easily cost more than anything this country has ever paid for in the past.

I think he's projecting a couple thousand per capita, not total. And so long as they don't get citizenship I really don't give a damn about illegals. Not germane to this thread anyway, so back to liberals telling us all how great Obamacare is and how they believe it didn't fuck over far more than it helps.

 

[Matt1970]

Because Obamacare was never about cheaper insurance.

That is correct--because Obamacare is NOT a health care system. Obamacare is merely a mandate for people to purchase insurance and a list of regulations on insurance companies. It does nothing to address the underlying causes of health care costs.

I suspect that, if anything, we are going to find that the total cost of providing health care for 100% of the population under our current health care system ends up being higher than the current 17% of GDP we are currently paying, making the gap between our nation's health care costs and those of the most expensive evil socialized medicine system wider.

Just ignore that $2500 savings a year promise our President and the left made. We will decide what Obamacare was all about after we see it's results.

 

[senseamp]

Sad what we are focusing on right now, rather than trying to be more productive, as individuals. Have we, as a society, really fallen down that bad?

Yes, we have fallen down that bad. We are far more productive as individuals, but the benefits of that productivity go to select few, while many of the productive individuals can't even afford to provide health care for themselves and their families. That is a failure of trickle down economics that concentrates the benefits at the top and hopes for the best.

 

[Jaskalas]

Okay, now given that we know what a ponzi scheme is and we know what the ACA is, how does the ACA qualify as a ponzi scheme?

The young are forced to pay into it for the potential of its services existing for them decades later. Just like social security.

If the young don't pay into it, the system cannot be afforded and will collapse.

 

[lotus503]

What in the world makes you think that I am pissed at anything or anyone? I am simply arguing simple mathematics with you and was, nor am, in anyway shape or form stating an actual political statement. I am very sorry you took it that way but that is the bottom line.

BTW, I think the line items you listed are batshit insane in terms of costs to taxpayers/Fed gov as well and must be brought down. I am also sane enough to realize that basic mathematics says that, along with defense, any meaningful cuts to our Federal spending must include mandatory spending (social security, medicare, medicaid) simply because of the fact that they represent the vast majority of said budget. Math doesn't lie, sorry if that hurts your feelings or makes you politically butthurt.

I don't play the partisan games, if that is what you are looking for I suggest you engage someone else. If you would like to have an actual discussion on the real numbers and reality than by all means let us proceed my friend.

Sorry it looks like I misunderstood where you were coming from. I thought you seemed pissed off at poor people, I did reread your post and can see how you were just being colorful with adjectives. So my apologies for asserting intent to your post, I was also responding to Spidey who is without a doubt angry and getting the wires crossed a bit.

I don't really have a political point to make here, but do find the focus on poor people misguided, poor people are not the problem in this country.

I also don't understand when people want to lump social security in with the the rest of the fed budget line items. while its %22 of spending its a separate tax everyone and every employers pays.

You outline you think everything needs to be cut, do you also consider the impact of spending cuts in medicare for example? I think the issue with medicare is with cost of healthcare, and our reactive vs proactive healthcare system. To be intellectually honest I also come from a position that administrative overhead costs in healthcare are the problem, I think healthcare professionals should be paid well, but 20 bucks for a Tylenol?

 

[lotus503]

but he's right when he says they pay no federal income taxes.

No he isn't, he would be right if he said they have no bet tax burden

 

[fskimospy]

All people benefit from the roads in the US along with all traffic on them. Why is it that only those of us that drive have to pay insurance to drive while those that don't "freeload" off the rest of us? Classic market failure too?

Because auto insurance is not intended to pay for the creation or maintenance of roads or traffic, it is simply there to serve as a method to discharge liabilities you incur to other drivers. People in America do pay for the creation and maintenance of roads and other transportation infrastructure through taxes, however.

I'm not sure what your argument is, however. Is it that other positive externalities exist? Because of course they do. Is it that because another positive externality exists that we should embrace this one as well?

I'm just arguing math and economics. If you want to argue ideology that's fine.

 

[Fern]

I'm gonna just say this from my observation: Illegal aliens create a huge burden on our healthcare system. Delivering babies isn't cheap and they are on a mission here to make as many as they can. Where does that funding come from, since they generally don't pay for their visit to the hospital to give birth?
-snip-

Medicaid, which is jointly funded by the fed govt and the state govt (although the feds fund the larger portion).

Fern

 

[spidey07]

No he isn't, he would be right if he said they have no bet tax burden

Bullshit liar.

They pay no federal income tax. Indisputable fact.

 

[Fern]

So you think that finding and deporting 11 million people will only cost a couple grand? Seriously?

No really. . The cost of deporting the illegals will easily cost more than anything this country has ever paid for in the past.

They imported themselves so they could deport themselves. Cost w/b negligible.

Various programs/policies as well as work lure them here. Stop Medicaid and the various other assistance programs. Stop pussyfooting around with illegal employment.

When Immigration visit a workplace or otherwise finds an illegal, quit just turning them back on the streets.

If you make it unattractive to be here illegally many will leave voluntarily.

But it's abundantly clear, to me at least, our govt and many others want an open border. It is what it is.

Fern

 

[senseamp]

We need illegals for our agriculture.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

We need illegals for our agriculture.

Because you like cheap vegetables?

 

[senseamp]

Because you like cheap vegetables?

Because I like vegetables, period.

 

[schmuckley]

So you think that finding and deporting 11 million people will only cost a couple grand? Seriously?

No really. . The cost of deporting the illegals will easily cost more than anything this country has ever paid for in the past.

I'd almost guarantee the savings to the welfare/foodstamp system + gained American jobs would outweigh the cost of deportation by more than 100%+

 

[senseamp]

I'd almost guarantee the savings to the welfare/foodstamp system + gained American jobs would outweigh the cost of deportation by more than 100%+

We'll have to spend more on food stamps because the cost of food will go up.

 

[Fern]

We need illegals for our agriculture.

No, we need migrant workers. No need for them to be illegal.

IIRC, Canada has a very organized system to bring in Mexicans for picking crops. They're documented. They're treated well. And they go back home at the end of the season.

Fern