So why did Biden suddenly take a page from Trump’s playbook with tariffs?

[RalphTheCow]

Seems like it came out of nowhere. And won’t it contribute to inflation? I am confused.

 

[itsmydamnation]

I didn't realise trump invented tariffs.

The world is deglobalising a little bit , your going to see degrees of walls put up against your threats/adversaries.

 

[Fenixgoon]

1) holy lurker/necro account
2) China dumping EVs would destroy the US automotive industry, which is an economic and security issue.

Biden set to levy 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs this week

Both the US and EU are deeply concerned about heavily subsidized Chinese OEMs.

arstechnica.com

 

[brycejones]

Seems like it came out of nowhere. And won’t it contribute to inflation? I am confused.

Targeted tariffs are not unusual which Biden's are. Trumps were very broad and not very targeted, impacting things like screws even.

 

[Brainonska511]

Because protectionism is popular.

And we should use targeted tariffs to protect valuable industries from dumping, which is what Biden is doing (and different from Trump's broad, non-targeted ones).

 

[RalphTheCow]

1) holy lurker/necro account
2) China dumping EVs would destroy the US automotive industry, which is an economic and security issue.

Biden set to levy 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs this week

Both the US and EU are deeply concerned about heavily subsidized Chinese OEMs.

arstechnica.com

I prefer “low volume” account. Anandtech was about my first forum and I have always liked it here! My main forum prohibits polytics so I thought I would dip
my toe in the water here. Good responses to this thread 🧵 so it is working out so far! (uh, either this site or my phone is suggesting words and that thread picture! Eek, AI! ).

 

[Fenixgoon]

I prefer “low volume” account. Anandtech was about my first forum and I have always liked it here! My main forum prohibits polytics so I thought I would dip
my toe in the water here. Good responses to this thread 🧵 so it is working out so far! (uh, either this site or my phone is suggesting words and that thread picture! Eek, AI! ).

My apologies, you are a real person!

There have been a number of accounts over the last few years that have been hijacked - accounts that have historically been low volume and/or inactive, especially in P&N - only to suddenly post a flurry of provocative (and usually bullshit) threads. So I was inherently suspicious of you at first.

Welcome to P&N! You'll find we're all a little crazy here. Some more than others debating in good faith, and supporting your positions with data, goes a loooong way towards people understanding you, even if they don't agree with you.

 

[nakedfrog]

My apologies, you are a real person!

There have been a number of accounts over the last few years that have been hijacked - accounts that have historically been low volume and/or inactive, especially in P&N - only to suddenly post a flurry of provocative (and usually bullshit) threads. So I was inherently suspicious of you at first.

Welcome to P&N! You'll find we're all a little crazy here. Some more than others debating in good faith, and supporting your positions with data, goes a loooong way towards people understanding you, even if they don't agree with you.

Yeah, he's made a few posts here and there in recent history.

 

[Paratus]

The problem is actually dumping. A foreign government funds its domestic production for international consumption in an effort drive out the foreign competition.

GM, Ford, and Tesla would struggle to compete with Chinese BYD EVs artificially priced $10K - $20K less via Chinese subsidies. So they go under then BYD owns the American car market and jacks prices up.

Free trade agreements usually don’t apply to dumping.

 

[iRONic]

Polytics, eh…?

Hmmmmm

 

[dullard]

Tariffs and protection of American union worker's jobs has long been the rallying cry of Democrats. Republicans for decades demanded free markets. Then Trump came along, threw out free trade agreements, and implemented tariffs. So, I disagree with the premise of this thread. It isn't Biden taking a play from Trump, but instead this is one of the places where Trump took a play from Democrats.

Theoretically it will contribute to inflation. Look at what happened after Trump put in 25% tariffs and suddenly prices went up nearly 25% over the next 2 years. But, in this particular Biden case it is often tariffs on items that weren't being sold here. For example, Chinese EVs are not really sold in the US other than a rare import here or there. So, a tariff on something that isn't sold acts more as a trade barrier than short term inflation. The idea being that hopefully allowing healthy US companies will lower EV prices here in the long term even if short term it helps to keep prices high.

 

[kage69]

These tariffs are appropriate and rational, therefore quite removed from "Trump's Playbook."


If Biden ever starts laundering money for Russians, conducting insurrections with fake elector plots, downplaying deadly pandemics for politics sake, or spending >3 months a year playing golf while in office, then you can accuse him of taking a page from "Trump's playbook."


Till then, this is just China getting what it so justly deserves. Bravo Joe.

 

[kage69]

Because protectionism is popular.

When dealing with people who want to ruin you I call it prudent. Look what they did to Brazil. China wants to play the game but it doesn't want to play by the same rules as everyone else. That's a problem.

 

[MrSquished]

Targeted tariffs are a normal part of business. Trump just did a fuck it tariffs on everything! It's like comparing a surgical precision strategy, vs just dropping a nuke.

 

[APU_Fusion]

Tariffs are horrendous normally but is a main recourse for a country doing something like what China is doing in a capital economy. You can bet your behind China would do the same to the US if our government subsidized all Teslas being sold into China so it cost much less than their domestic vehicles.

As other said; targeted tariffs are sometimes necessary evil.

 

[manly]

Part of the problem is that U.S. Big 3 have gone all-in on light truck profits in the N.A. market. GM and Ford each used to have a decent China business, but that's cratered and is unlikely to ever rebound. Good piece by WashPo:

U.S. and Chinese automakers are headed in completely different directions

American automakers and their Chinese rivals are heading in different directions. Able to produce far more cars than they can sell in China, Chinese companies like BYD are entering markets all over the world. Their global expansion comes as major U.S. carmakers - whose once-lucrative China sales...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[akugami]

Tariffs and protection of American union worker's jobs has long been the rallying cry of Democrats. Republicans for decades demanded free markets. Then Trump came along, threw out free trade agreements, and implemented tariffs. So, I disagree with the premise of this thread. It isn't Biden taking a play from Trump, but instead this is one of the places where Trump took a play from Democrats.

Theoretically it will contribute to inflation. Look at what happened after Trump put in 25% tariffs and suddenly prices went up nearly 25% over the next 2 years. But, in this particular Biden case it is often tariffs on items that weren't being sold here. For example, Chinese EVs are not really sold in the US other than a rare import here or there. So, a tariff on something that isn't sold acts more as a trade barrier than short term inflation. The idea being that hopefully allowing healthy US companies will lower EV prices here in the long term even if short term it helps to keep prices high.

I can understand with automobiles. There is a very valid question of illegal subsidies by the Chinese government to manipulate the market. My only issue is, there's no conclusion to the investigations yet. EU investigations are ongoing.

One major issue with the tariffs is Biden is targeting other items that the US needs. Things like PPE (needles, gloves, masks) manufactured in China, and that is definitely going to affect the health industry.

Solar panels are another target. This will only affect those who care about green energies, so all the conservatives can cheer this one on.

Battery parts. This will definitely increase the prices of many consumer items, considering how many things come with batteries nowadays.

Steel and aluminum. I haven't seen more info on this, so not sure if it's just raw steel and aluminum. But that's got to raise the prices of general consumer items.

STS (ship-to-shore) cranes. Now here's a surprising one. From what I know, the US doesn't currently make STS cranes and hasn't for nearly 3 decades. STS cranes moves containers from the ship to shore, or from shore to the container ships. Biden did announce grants for Japanese company, Misui E&S Co, to make STS cranes in the US. It seems this is the very protectionism Biden, and the US, has been wailing about.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Protectionism and tarrifs were always an old school Dem thing. Protecting American jobs and Union workers etc. Republicans were always the probusiness free market hawks that were cool with off shoring and trade agreements because it allowed business to circumvent expensive American labor.

Trump flipped that whole thing on it's head with his populism, and now suddenly tarrifs are seen as a Republican thing, when really Trump just went ahead with an old school Dem idea and just sprinkled some of his usual ambiguously racist fairy dust on it and called it a day.

Actually really speaks to how popular Dem policies are, when a Pub can just lift them and suddenly Republicans love it.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I can understand with automobiles. There is a very valid question of illegal subsidies by the Chinese government to manipulate the market. My only issue is, there's no conclusion to the investigations yet. EU investigations are ongoing.

One major issue with the tariffs is Biden is targeting other items that the US needs. Things like PPE (needles, gloves, masks) manufactured in China, and that is definitely going to affect the health industry.

Solar panels are another target. This will only affect those who care about green energies, so all the conservatives can cheer this one on.

Battery parts. This will definitely increase the prices of many consumer items, considering how many things come with batteries nowadays.

Steel and aluminum. I haven't seen more info on this, so not sure if it's just raw steel and aluminum. But that's got to raise the prices of general consumer items.

STS (ship-to-shore) cranes. Now here's a surprising one. From what I know, the US doesn't currently make STS cranes and hasn't for nearly 3 decades. STS cranes moves containers from the ship to shore, or from shore to the container ships. Biden did announce grants for Japanese company, Misui E&S Co, to make STS cranes in the US. It seems this is the very protectionism Biden, and the US, has been wailing about.

a lot of structural steel is made in china. by tonnage, china dwarves everyone else by a massive margin.

List of countries by steel production - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[akugami]

@Fenixgoon

I just can't see valid reasoning for some of these tariffs other than domestic protectionism.