So who gets the blame for this one . . . Hezbollah or IDF?

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
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yahoo
LONDON (Reuters) - Leaking oil from a bombed power station in Lebanon has damaged about a third of the country's coastline, the world's top maritime body said on Wednesday.

The U.N. International Maritime Organization (IMO) said in a statement that some 10,000 metric tons of fuel oil had spilled into the Mediterranean from the damaged Jiyyeh plant south of Beirut.

It said another 25,000 metric tons of the heavy oil slurry -- similar to the type that devastated beaches in northern Spain following the Prestige oil tanker disaster in 2002 -- could still escape from ruptured storage tanks.
I bet Hezbollah was using those storage tanks as inanimate shields.

Lebanon's Environment Ministry says Israeli jets hit the storage tanks on July 13 and 15 and described the leakage as an environmental catastrophe.
If first you don't succeed . . .

yahoo . . . again
NAIROBI (AFP) - The UN Environment Programme (UNEP) called for immediate action after thousands of tonnes of fuel from a bombed Lebanese power plant spread to the Syrian coastline, threatening to unleash an environmental catastrophe.
I guess that's one way to get the Syrians.

The leak from one of the tanks, located just 25 metres (80 feet) from the sea, has now stopped but another containing 25,000 tonnes of fuel oil is still on fire and is in danger of exploding. Between 8,000 and 10,000 tonnes of fuel are on the shore and 5,000 on open waters of the Lebanese coastline.
I know you aren't suppose to blame the victim . . . but that just seems like bad planning.


 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
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You must be one of those Jew-haters. :p

What a tragedy though. Recovery for the displaced will be even tougher with tourism shut down.
 

IrateLeaf

Member
Jul 27, 2006
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They say war is hell.
We all hope it gets cleaned up quickly.
But we also know that you cannot trust Hezbollah or anybody else to want to JUST clean the spill.
So it will probably go inchecked.
Thats one of the sad facts about war.

:(
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
The phrase, "war is hell," was probably not coined as an apology for it.

We do live in an upside-down world.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,666
2,421
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The only rationale I can see for bombing a power plant is to punish the people of Lebanon as a whole. Israel has squandered much of the goodwill they have built up with the American people. Defending yourself and your country is one thing, intentionally bombing your neighbors back to the stone age is completely different.

From several news articles I have read this is quite an environmental diaster, in perhaps the only Arab country that actively protects its environment. The spill may go as far as Cypress. And the longer the spill is untreated, the long term damage, and clean up costs and difficulty, become substantially harder and more expensive.

<-- a former feverent supporter of the State of Israel.
 

Buck Armstrong

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
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Originally posted by: The Green Bean
IDF's barbaric atctions = "war is hell"

Hezbollah = started the fight, knowing all along that Lebanon would pay a tragic price and didn't fvcking care.
 

trance247

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
363
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there are oil refineries in Israel as well and if one of those 'dumb' missles hits one it will make things go bad real fast and worst of all it can happen anytime, it's liek my unlcle said (he live in Israel) "...you can hear those things in the air and the fear of not being able to do anything about it, knowing that it may fall on your house, car or anything else and it's not the question of if, but when..."
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
IDF's barbaric atctions = "war is hell"

Hezbollah = started the fight, knowing all along that Lebanon would pay a tragic price and didn't fvcking care.

You know that makes almost no sense. We've had nearly two decades +/- of prisoner exchanges between Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah. Olmert EXPLICITLY rejected the past and CHOSE a DIFFERENT response. It is in fact Israel/Olmert that has chosen to execute an offensive against Lebanon and doesn't really care about the impact on civilians or civilian infrastructure.

That in no way absolves Hezbollah of contributing to the hostilities and escalations . . . but IDF wasn't compelled to bomb the airport, power stations, fuel depots, or highways. It was a choice.
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
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Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
IDF's barbaric atctions = "war is hell"

Hezbollah = started the fight, knowing all along that Lebanon would pay a tragic price and didn't fvcking care.

Israel holds illegal Palestenian and Syrian land. They started it all and the're still killing Palestenians. What hypocrates. They can roam into Palestinian lands at will and kill and capture at will. When the same happens to their "soldiers" they go on a rampage.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
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Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
IDF's barbaric atctions = "war is hell"

Hezbollah = started the fight, knowing all along that Lebanon would pay a tragic price and didn't fvcking care.

Israel holds illegal Palestenian and Syrian land. They started it all and the're still killing Palestenians. What hypocrates. They can roam into Palestinian lands at will and kill and capture at will. When the same happens to their "soldiers" they go on a rampage.

Maybe the arab nations shouldn't have attacked Israel and they would not have lost there land. You really need some history lessons here, or are you one of the one who starts there history of the region post kidnapped soldiers?
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
IDF's barbaric atctions = "war is hell"

Hezbollah = started the fight, knowing all along that Lebanon would pay a tragic price and didn't fvcking care.

Israel holds illegal Palestenian and Syrian land. They started it all and the're still killing Palestenians. What hypocrates. They can roam into Palestinian lands at will and kill and capture at will. When the same happens to their "soldiers" they go on a rampage.

Maybe the arab nations shouldn't have attacked Israel and they would not have lost there land. You really need some history lessons here, or are you one of the one who starts there history of the region post kidnapped soldiers?

Israel's creation was an illegal one in the first place. If you respect the UN's creation of Israel, you must accept that Israel has NO RIGHT to Palestenian or Syrian land. You can't just support the UN when it suits you.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
IDF's barbaric atctions = "war is hell"

Hezbollah = started the fight, knowing all along that Lebanon would pay a tragic price and didn't fvcking care.

Israel holds illegal Palestenian and Syrian land. They started it all and the're still killing Palestenians. What hypocrates. They can roam into Palestinian lands at will and kill and capture at will. When the same happens to their "soldiers" they go on a rampage.

Maybe the arab nations shouldn't have attacked Israel and they would not have lost there land. You really need some history lessons here, or are you one of the one who starts there history of the region post kidnapped soldiers?

Israel's creation was an illegal one in the first place. If you respect the UN's creation of Israel, you must accept that Israel has NO RIGHT to Palestenian or Syrian land. You can't just support the UN when it suits you.

Arab nations attacked a nation/country (Israel). Israel took land as buffers.

If the Arab nations had left Israel alone, would the land have been taken? No, it would still be in the hands of Jordan, Syria.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,666
2,421
126
Originally posted by: trance247
there are oil refineries in Israel as well and if one of those 'dumb' missles hits one it will make things go bad real fast and worst of all it can happen anytime, it's liek my unlcle said (he live in Israel) "...you can hear those things in the air and the fear of not being able to do anything about it, knowing that it may fall on your house, car or anything else and it's not the question of if, but when..."

From the little I understand about Hezbollah's rockets, they have essentially no guidance. Them hitting an Israeli refinery would be just blind luck. Here, the Israeli air force intentionally targeted the power plant with sophisticated jet aircraft. Israel willfully caused this disaster in an attack upon Lebanon's civilian infrastructure.

 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Originally posted by: Thump553
Originally posted by: trance247
there are oil refineries in Israel as well and if one of those 'dumb' missles hits one it will make things go bad real fast and worst of all it can happen anytime, it's liek my unlcle said (he live in Israel) "...you can hear those things in the air and the fear of not being able to do anything about it, knowing that it may fall on your house, car or anything else and it's not the question of if, but when..."

From the little I understand about Hezbollah's rockets, they have essentially no guidance. Them hitting an Israeli refinery would be just blind luck. Here, the Israeli air force intentionally targeted the power plant with sophisticated jet aircraft. Israel willfully caused this disaster in an attack upon Lebanon's civilian infrastructure.

No you are wrong . . . Hezbollah has been known to fire rockets from Lebanon. Since the powerplant was in Lebanon . . . it's a legitimate target.

On the otherhand, I'm sure Israel is sorry they destroyed civilian infrastructure. So sorry in fact they hit it on two separate days.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: Thump553
The only rationale I can see for bombing a power plant is to punish the people of Lebanon as a whole. Israel has squandered much of the goodwill they have built up with the American people. Defending yourself and your country is one thing, intentionally bombing your neighbors back to the stone age is completely different.

From several news articles I have read this is quite an environmental diaster, in perhaps the only Arab country that actively protects its environment. The spill may go as far as Cypress. And the longer the spill is untreated, the long term damage, and clean up costs and difficulty, become substantially harder and more expensive.

<-- a former feverent supporter of the State of Israel.


I find this good will to either be overstated or insincere. If you are going to turn your backs on this goodwill because in a time of war people get killed, I dont think you meant it to begin with.

It was the same thing the United States saw after 9-11. All of this goodwill until we started to work on moving against the people and ideology who commiitted this act. What kind of good will pats you on the back and tells you to continue bending over?


 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
IDF's barbaric atctions = "war is hell"

Hezbollah = started the fight, knowing all along that Lebanon would pay a tragic price and didn't fvcking care.

You know that makes almost no sense. We've had nearly two decades +/- of prisoner exchanges between Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah. Olmert EXPLICITLY rejected the past and CHOSE a DIFFERENT response. It is in fact Israel/Olmert that has chosen to execute an offensive against Lebanon and doesn't really care about the impact on civilians or civilian infrastructure.

That in no way absolves Hezbollah of contributing to the hostilities and escalations . . . but IDF wasn't compelled to bomb the airport, power stations, fuel depots, or highways. It was a choice.

All wars have choices, sitting at your computer screen thousands of miles away allows you to make choices to express opinions on a war zone you know little to nothing about, expcept for what is spoon fed to you through the media.

Israel has their reasons for knocking out the airport and doesnt require your permission for doing so.

If the civilians are having a hard time of it, maybe they should turn on the people that are causing this reaction by Israel. Instead they embrace it, well you make the bed, now live in it.




 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Thump553
The only rationale I can see for bombing a power plant is to punish the people of Lebanon as a whole. Israel has squandered much of the goodwill they have built up with the American people. Defending yourself and your country is one thing, intentionally bombing your neighbors back to the stone age is completely different.

From several news articles I have read this is quite an environmental diaster, in perhaps the only Arab country that actively protects its environment. The spill may go as far as Cypress. And the longer the spill is untreated, the long term damage, and clean up costs and difficulty, become substantially harder and more expensive.

<-- a former feverent supporter of the State of Israel.


I find this good will to either be overstated or insincere. If you are going to turn your backs on this goodwill because in a time of war people get killed, I dont think you meant it to begin with.

It was the same thing the United States saw after 9-11. All of this goodwill until we started to work on moving against the people and ideology who commiitted this act. What kind of good will pats you on the back and tells you to continue bending over?
Uh I don't think much of the goodwill went away with Afghanistan. I think it went away when the US started behaving like a belligerent child.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Thump553
The only rationale I can see for bombing a power plant is to punish the people of Lebanon as a whole. Israel has squandered much of the goodwill they have built up with the American people. Defending yourself and your country is one thing, intentionally bombing your neighbors back to the stone age is completely different.

From several news articles I have read this is quite an environmental diaster, in perhaps the only Arab country that actively protects its environment. The spill may go as far as Cypress. And the longer the spill is untreated, the long term damage, and clean up costs and difficulty, become substantially harder and more expensive.

<-- a former feverent supporter of the State of Israel.


I find this good will to either be overstated or insincere. If you are going to turn your backs on this goodwill because in a time of war people get killed, I dont think you meant it to begin with.

It was the same thing the United States saw after 9-11. All of this goodwill until we started to work on moving against the people and ideology who commiitted this act. What kind of good will pats you on the back and tells you to continue bending over?
Uh I don't think much of the goodwill went away with Afghanistan. I think it went away when the US started behaving like a belligerent child.

Countries were already pissing and moaning about knocking out the Taliban well before Iraq. Iraq was a completely different matter, one I think had much more to it than a simple "We dont think you should knock out a country". The goodwill was shortlived and insincere as far as I am concered. I dont think people really had much sincerity to the Israeli cause after two of their soldiers were attacked and kidnapped on their side of the border either.

In the end Israel shouldnt rely on world opinion to do what it needs to survive in that brutal part of the world.


 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
IDF's barbaric atctions = "war is hell"

Hezbollah = started the fight, knowing all along that Lebanon would pay a tragic price and didn't fvcking care.

You know that makes almost no sense. We've had nearly two decades +/- of prisoner exchanges between Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah. Olmert EXPLICITLY rejected the past and CHOSE a DIFFERENT response. It is in fact Israel/Olmert that has chosen to execute an offensive against Lebanon and doesn't really care about the impact on civilians or civilian infrastructure.

That in no way absolves Hezbollah of contributing to the hostilities and escalations . . . but IDF wasn't compelled to bomb the airport, power stations, fuel depots, or highways. It was a choice.

All wars have choices, sitting at your computer screen thousands of miles away allows you to make choices to express opinions on a war zone you know little to nothing about, expcept for what is spoon fed to you through the media.

Israel has their reasons for knocking out the airport and doesnt require your permission for doing so.

If the civilians are having a hard time of it, maybe they should turn on the people that are causing this reaction by Israel. Instead they embrace it, well you make the bed, now live in it.
Fascinating . . .

1) What spoon fed media would that be? I certainly don't watch Faux News aka pablum for the masses. Technically, the ability to express my opinion on a war zone is no less guaranteed or valid than that of Bush43, Chuck Hagel, Sean Hannity, Kofi Annan, Condiment Rice, or Tony Blair.

2) Israel knocked out the airport for the same reason it knocked out the powerplant, destroyed the roads, destroyed the bridges, bombed fuel depots, attacked Lebanese media outlets, and blockaded the coast . . . they think it advances their military goals. I'm simply pointing out those actions are collective punishment and accordingly unlawful acts.

3) Odds are 99.99% of the civilians in Lebanon and 90% of the casualties had no idea whatsoever that Hezbollah intended to attack IDF across the border and kidnap soldiers for the purpose of a prisoner exchange. But don't let that stop you from blaming the victims.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
2) Israel knocked out the airport for the same reason it knocked out the powerplant, destroyed the roads, destroyed the bridges, bombed fuel depots, attacked Lebanese media outlets, and blockaded the coast . . . they think it advances their military goals. I'm simply pointing out those actions are collective punishment and accordingly unlawful acts.

They knocked out the airport to keep their soldiers from being flown out. It also keeps supplies from being flown in. This isnt rocket science.

Knocking out the power plant cuts down the lines of communications. We did it in Iraq, we did it in WWII, we did it in every major war we have been in. Communication is key in a modern warzone. Knocking out the power that is used to communication will slow your enemies response time down.

3) Odds are 99.99% of the civilians in Lebanon and 90% of the casualties had no idea whatsoever that Hezbollah intended to attack IDF across the border and kidnap soldiers for the purpose of a prisoner exchange. But don't let that stop you from blaming the victims.

And? Many embrace these people, if they want to embrace them, they are going to end up having a consequence for it.