So where's the "We The People" spew now?

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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Never said they would. I would like it if they did, however

You probably wouldn't like it, but regardless, the argument on whether the federal government can get involved in health care is already settled as far as BOTH parties are concerned.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
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No, I wouldn't. I would love it.
I'd like to see you say that after paying into the system your whole life, and just when you go to collect your first check they tell you "no we cut that program yesterday."
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
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I'd like to see you say that after paying into the system your whole life, and just when you go to collect your first check they tell you "no we cut that program yesterday."

I'd like to cash out what I've paid in so far and opt out of that shitty system.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
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Obama agenda already passed. This is closing the barn doors after the horses left.

Then it wasn't much of an agenda.

Stimulous and how it was done and who it favored? That was a one-time shot. It'll will fade away (except for the tab/bill) soon.

Auto bail-out and windfall to unions? Another one-time shot.

Lame finance reform? That can and will be reformed again. Again, a temporary thing.

Imposing federal power over states, like the AZ immigration issue? We've seen and discussed the court case here, assuming it stands, only a legislative change is needed to turn that around. Again, it's entirely likely to be temporary.

Health Care? Other than some reform mandating minimum coverage requirements, a tax credit here and there, what do have other than forcing people to buy HI from companies?

Not much. Tax credits come and go. When the minimum coverage requirements kick-in (no annual or lifetime caps) how are people going to react when they have to actually pay for that? Do people like 'penalties'? Are they popular? Even if it passes the courts how are people going to react to penalties? As the complaints roll in I bet we're going to see politicians do what they always have - They're gonna promise to get rid of them so they get elected/re-elected.

So far I see nothing 'set in stone' like Social Security or Medicaid and Medicare (or the implementation of income tax back in 1913).

At this point I'd say that his only real influential polices are those elevating, not even the start of -just the elevation, of debates over more fed gov involvement in health care/Hi choices and states' sovereignty. Both of these began well before Obama, but he has accelerated them.

Fern
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
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Sorry bro, that money is long gone. You propose raising taxes to cover those checks?

Oh my, I am shocked. Are you implying the federal government is bad with money? Heavens, I am troubled by this revelation. And you trust them with your healthcare?

And you liberals wonder why people hate big government programs and government takeovers of different industries.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,093
30,448
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Oh my, I am shocked. Are you implying the federal government is bad with money? Heavens, I am troubled by this revelation. And you trust them with your healthcare?

And you liberals wonder why people hate big government programs and government takeovers of different industries.
So, nay on the raising of the taxes and repeal of SS then?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Then it wasn't much of an agenda.

Stimulous and how it was done and who it favored? That was a one-time shot. It'll will fade away (except for the tab/bill) soon.

Auto bail-out and windfall to unions? Another one-time shot.

Lame finance reform? That can and will be reformed again. Again, a temporary thing.

Imposing federal power over states, like the AZ immigration issue? We've seen and discussed the court case here, assuming it stands, only a legislative change is needed to turn that around. Again, it's entirely likely to be temporary.

Health Care? Other than some reform mandating minimum coverage requirements, a tax credit here and there, what do have other than forcing people to buy HI from companies?

Not much. Tax credits come and go. When the minimum coverage requirements kick-in (no annual or lifetime caps) how are people going to react when they have to actually pay for that? Do people like 'penalties'? Are they popular? Even if it passes the courts how are people going to react to penalties? As the complaints roll in I bet we're going to see politicians do what they always have - They're gonna promise to get rid of them so they get elected/re-elected.

So far I see nothing 'set in stone' like Social Security or Medicaid and Medicare (or the implementation of income tax back in 1913).

At this point I'd say that the only real influential polices are the elevating, not even the start of -just the elevation, of debates over more fed gov involvement in health care/Hi choices and states' sovereignty. Both of these began well before Obama, but he has accelerated them.

Fern

I guess we'll see. I hope Obama works with GOP to repeal the individual mandate, so that health insurers go bankrupt :)
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
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So, nay on the raising of the taxes and repeal of SS then?

How about...lets say cutting defense and other major expenditures and using that money to give back to the people for what they have paid into the ponzi scheme known as SS?

Does that work for you?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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So when's GOP going to run on repeal SS and Medicare platform? Last time they had their way they expanded Medicare :D
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
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30,448
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How about...lets say cutting defense and other major expenditures and using that money to give back to the people for what they have paid into the ponzi scheme known as SS?

Does that work for you?
Awhile ago I would have said yes. Before the current wars and the current debts. But now I am not so sure. What if our military is the only thing keeping other world powers from knocking on our door to collect or break our legs?
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Awhile ago I would have said yes. Before the current wars and the current debts. But now I am not so sure. What if our military is the only thing keeping other world powers from knocking on our door to collect or break our legs?

Maybe we should leave Iraq and Afghanistan, lobbing cruise missiles at any terrorist camps that pop up. Cut defense spending, since we will not be at war this should be no issue. Use said defense spending savings + other spending cuts to find SS rebate checks. When all rebates are paid, shut down SS and tell the mouthbreathers that rely soley on SS to invest in a 401k like a normal person

This solves the current wars problem
This solves our SS crisis
This solves our national debt crisis (since SS and defense spending are the US's largest expenditures)
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,093
30,448
136
Maybe we should leave Iraq and Afghanistan, lobbing cruise missiles at any terrorist camps that pop up. Cut defense spending, since we will not be at war this should be no issue. Use said defense spending savings + other spending cuts to find SS rebate checks. When all rebates are paid, shut down SS and tell the mouthbreathers that rely soley on SS to invest in a 401k like a normal person

This solves the current wars problem
This solves our SS crisis
This solves our national debt crisis (since SS and defense spending are the US's largest expenditures)
Sounds great. Do you have hard numbers that show that cutting DoD would produce enough money to cover those SS checks?
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Sounds great. Do you have hard numbers that show that cutting DoD would produce enough money to cover those SS checks?

DoD + other spending cuts. IE, foreign aid and whatnot. It might take years worth of those cuts to pay everyone. Lets start in age order. Oldest first
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
The Senate Minority leader even said last night again, that is the republican's top priority - stopping obama.

That's why Republicans suck. Their top priority should be whatever's best for America. At least they now admit their priority is politics as usual.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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That's why Republicans suck. Their top priority should be whatever's best for America. At least they now admit their priority is politics as usual.
Here's a concept...maybe they think that stopping Obama's progressive agenda is best for America. Is this really that hard for you to understand? And yes...they do call it politics....imagine that!
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
Sounds great. Do you have hard numbers that show that cutting DoD would produce enough money to cover those SS checks?


Did a little poking aorund, and came up with: http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/

3rd Party site - Clearly have an agenda (read: whether you agree or not is a completely different story), but there are some interesting graphics in the lower/right. According to these guys, DOD and SS are roughly equal in cost/spending.