So what mobo should I buy?

[absinthe]

Ok, time for my yearly post to Anandtech seeking advice

Time to upgrade. Warcraft III is really dragging. I'm running a Celeron II 533 on an Asus P3V4X (pretty hot board when I bought it two and a half years ago), with an ATI All-in-Wonder with 16 MB memory.

I'm definitely getting a GeForce4 Ti 4200 with 64 MB. But I don't think my problem is strictly the video card. My wife's computer downstairs doesn't have the video memory I do, but what she does does is a 950 mhz processor. Things work better on her box (but hey, you didn't hear that from me . . . )

So, I've decided to go for the Pentium IV 2.0 Ghz (or at least a 1.6 anyway). Good price point. But I can't find a board that meets my requirements. I'm partial to Asus, but would be willing to try most any other brand if such came recommended.

--Must accommodate P4 2.0 Ghz, obviously!
--Must accommodate my PC133 SDRAM (seems like all new boards use DDR nowadays! -- I guess I'd be okay with a DDR/SDR combo board) I just bought 256 MB more PCRAM, for a total of 128 that I'd like to get some use out of
--Don't want onboard audio (unless the board can also accommodate my SoundBlaster Live!)

Is it impossible to find an Asus P4 board that takes SDRAM and doesn't have onboard sound? Is there something I'm missing?

I'd also love to hear any recommendations on where to buy the recommended board in combo with the 2.0 processor.

Thanks a mil!!!!!

--Aaron

 

[Zepper]

Hey,

Does absinthe really make the heart grow fonder?

Sorry, couldn't resist, and besides it pads the ol' post count.
.bh.
ps. I don't care for Intel stuff so don't pay a lot of attn to what's our there and I can't be of help in your main issue.

 

[o1die]

P4 with pc133 sdram is a bad idea. It slows down the cpu at least 25%. If you must use sdram, I would get an xp2000 ($96 shipped@newegg) with the soltek 75-KAV (about $66 shipped). For the P4, get the 2.0 ($169) with epox 4g4a (about $90). With ddram, the p4 setup will cost you at least $200 more. If in doubt, I would try selling your sdram first, and switch to pc2700 p4 or xp setup (epox 8k5a2 $90 and xp1600 $53-overclocks well). Just disable sound in the bios to use your soundblaster.

 

[absinthe]

Originally posted by: o1die
P4 with pc133 sdram is a bad idea. It slows down the cpu at least 25%. If you must use sdram, I would get an xp2000 ($96 shipped@newegg) with the soltek 75-KAV (about $66 shipped). For the P4, get the 2.0 ($169) with epox 4g4a (about $90). With ddram, the p4 setup will cost you at least $200 more. If in doubt, I would try selling your sdram first, and switch to pc2700 p4 or xp setup (epox 8k5a2 $90 and xp1600 $53-overclocks well). Just disable sound in the bios to use your soundblaster.

See, that's why I ask questions here I would never have know that SDRAM slows down a P4.

Ok, so what about one of these boards with 2 SDRAM slots and 2 DDRAM slots? I know I can't mix and match, but I could use the SDR until I acquire new DDR, perhaps selling the old as you suggest ... I think I've seen some Asus boards that accommodate both kinds.

I hadn't really seriously considered an AMD product, but if anyone wants to try selling me on it ... I'm all ears!

Thanks!

--Aaron

 

[o1die]

The boards that use both types of memory may or may not work well with sdram. The chipsets are a little slower, except for the ecs k7s5a, which gets mixed reviews at best for quality. The epox 8k5a2 for ddram is still your best choice. It should run the xp1600 at 150 fsb or more with quality pc2700 such as samsung, corsair, or crucial. 256 mb of ddram is plenty, unless you are running xp with lots of devices in your system. I use windows 2k; no experience with xp.

 

[NiRo]

if you take a pentium 4 cpu i would only run it with rd ram. it is expensive but works best and gives you the most power. a great and stable p4 board for rd ram is the gigabyte 8ihpx. 2 of my friends have it with a p4 2.0 ghz and they oc it to 2.4 ghz without any problems and just with the intel boxed cooler.

so take rd ram if you really want a pentium 4. sell the sd ram on ebay or so. 256 rd ram should atleast cost like 50-60$. don't know us prices well.

cu NiRo

 

[CraigRT]

If you were gonna have to use your SDRAM, I'd just buy a high end PIII to work on your board, and the Ti4200.

P4 + SDRAM = 486 2002

 

[absinthe]

I appreciate all the advice thus far.

Ok, you've convinced me that SDRAM with a p4 is a bad idea. I'll invest in new RAM if I have to, perhaps selling off theold. But I've looked up several of the mobos suggested here. For instance, the Gigabyte 8ihpx, if I understand what I'm reading at Gigabyte's website, takes RAMBUS memory. Isn't that different from DDR RAM?

I have considered the option of a high-end p3. Friend of mine runs a p3 1.0 Ghz with a GeForce4 and says everything flies on his 'puter. BUT ... if I'm going to have to buy a new board and go through all the trouble of installing everything, I'd might as well get a significant upgrade. What's the highest p3? About 1.1 or 1.2?

I'd still love to hear from some AMD devotees. How would a higher-end AMD compare to a Pentium 2.0, for instance? Would an Athlon with SDRAM work as well (or even nearly as well) as a p4 with DDRAM?

Thanks again!

--Aaron

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I would buy the Asus P4B533 from Mwave.com for 126$,P41.8A from Newegg.com for 149$, and Crucial 2700DDR which if you use the Crucial link here will get you 15% off and free 2nd day shipping. My logic is even a mild overclock on the 1.8A will exceed the 2.0A's performance and when you use the AGP/PCI lock and see how easy it is to overclock the 1.8A on that board you'll do it

 

[absinthe]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
I would buy the Asus P4B533 from Mwave.com for 126$,P41.8A from Newegg.com for 149$, and Crucial 2700DDR which if you use the Crucial link here will get you 15% off and free 2nd day shipping. My logic is even a mild overclock on the 1.8A will exceed the 2.0A's performance and when you use the AGP/PCI lock and see how easy it is to overclock the 1.8A on that board you'll do it

Cool: A whole combo suggestion! With coupon included!

By my calculations, that comes pretty close to my budget of about $400. I figure that'll actually run closer to $500, if I figure in a GeForce4 Ti 4200, depending on various shipping costs.

More suggestions? I've read that the P4 1.6 chip is very overclockable as well.

My logic is this: A good computer upgrade should last three years. In 1994, I bought a 50 mhz DXII. In 1997, I bought a P3 350 mHz. Then in 2000 I built myself a box with a Celeron II 533 (purchased because I'd read it was so easily overclockable to 800 mhz). Now I'm a little early, but with CPU prices going lower every day, I want to invest in something that'll keep smokin' for about three more years.

I'm not a person who needs or even wants the fastest and bestest in a box. I look for the price point. If the difference between a 1.6 Ghz and a 1.8 is 20 bucks, I go for the 1.8. Then, if the difference between 1.8 and 2.0 is more like 50 or 60 bucks, then dernit I'll stick to the 1.8 Ghz. Knowhatimean?

--Aaron

 

[DougK62]

OK - I'll play the AMD fanboy

All of the suggestions thus far have been really good. However, if it was MY money I'd want to keep my good SDRAM and reuse it. You'll take a hit in performance compared to DDR, but this hit is going to be comparativly negligible when you consider the rig you're upgrading from. Any new processor will make it look like a dinosaur.

But the other guys are right - you don't want SDRAM with the P4. What you DO want is an Athlon. For about the same as the 2.0 P4 you can get the 1.8 XP which is significantly quicker in most applications. For you I'd guess the performance margin to be smaller since you'll be using SDRAM with the XP instead of DDR.

A quick jump to Newegg shows the XP is $152 shipped. I'll recommend the MSI K7T turbo2 board to go along with it. A super buy at only $69 shipped. The two of these together plus your SDRAM will put you in good shape and is MUCH cheaper then the other guy's suggestion. The performance between these two, IMO would be very minor - both will smoke WIII

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Well, if you are trying to make it a few years based off this upgrade then since I suggested a P4 setup that could do well and provide some future proofing I'll suggest an AMD setup that will give you some time in between upgrades as well Epox 8K5A2 from Mwave.com for 86$, XP1600+ for 55$ from Newegg.com, Thermalright AX-7 with Sunon 50cfm fan approx. 40$ from 2cooltek.com and the Crucial 2700DDR. It's been awhile since I've seen anyone with a board with the 1/5 divider and a XP1600+ AGOIA or AROIA stepping from Newegg not get 166FSB@default Vcore for 2100+ speed (Both my AROIA and AGOIA I've bought in the last 2 months do it easy ) so you get free performance. The bandwidth from the 2700DDR and 333FSB on the XP plus the ability to put a faster XP in the board later should be sufficent for a good while. Anyways, I hope these suggestions help and let us know what you buy

 

[absinthe]

I'm lovin' these suggestions! I've never dealt with an AMD product, but I wouldn't mind giving one a try. Anyway, here's what I'm leaning toward so far . . .

Asus p4s533 combo'd with P4 2.0 Ghz with heatsink/fan from Tufshop.com -- $262.99 (plus who knows how much shipping)
256 MB of new (dammit!) DDR PC2700 RAM from crucial.com -- $68.09 shipped (with 15% off coupon and free shipping)
MSI GeForce4 Ti 4200/64 MB -- $135 shipped from Belka.com

got most of these suggestions from SharkyExtreme.com

That comes to: $466.08 + $17.44 lowest shipping with insurance cost from Tufshop = grand total of $483.52

That's a good bit over my budget of $400. But, I'm figuring I might be able to sell some of my old stuff to cover the difference. I've got friends who do web development who can always use spare parts for a box. Anyone know where I could get some of this stuff cheaper, or suggest a better system for the money ... lemme hear ya!

--Aaron

 

[Dufrane]

I would consider getting the 128mb version of the gf4200. From what I have been reading in here over the past month plus, new games are taking advantage of the extra video memory

 

[absinthe]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Well, if you are trying to make it a few years based off this upgrade then since I suggested a P4 setup that could do well and provide some future proofing I'll suggest an AMD setup that will give you some time in between upgrades as well Epox 8K5A2 from Mwave.com for 86$, XP1600+ for 55$ from Newegg.com, Thermalright AX-7 with Sunon 50cfm fan approx. 40$ from 2cooltek.com and the Crucial 2700DDR. It's been awhile since I've seen anyone with a board with the 1/5 divider and a XP1600+ AGOIA or AROIA stepping from Newegg not get 166FSB@default Vcore for 2100+ speed (Both my AROIA and AGOIA I've bought in the last 2 months do it easy ) so you get free performance. The bandwidth from the 2700DDR and 333FSB on the XP plus the ability to put a faster XP in the board later should be sufficent for a good while. Anyways, I hope these suggestions help and let us know what you buy

Ok. After some deliberation, I'm thinking of going with the exact hardware you're recommending, Dapunisher. Hope to get everything ordered today, and get to slapping stuff together in the next week. I'm gonna just try running the 1600 XP at default speed at first and see what kind of performance I get ... but if overclocking it is as easy as I'm hearing then I may be tempted to shoot for 2Ghz+! Hope you guys'll lend me some advice on overclocking the XP once the time comes.

Thanks!