blankslate
Diamond Member
- Jun 16, 2008
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Now I'm wondering what intelligence briefing(s) may have brought about this apparent change in opinion amongst White House personnel
Lab Safety procedures would need to be reviewed and improved if possible. people who advocate for Gain of Function research may be less credible though in the eyes of the public.
Now I'm wondering what intelligence briefing(s) may have brought about this apparent change in opinion amongst White House personnel
according to CNN a few days ago "Senior Biden officials finding that Covid lab leak theory as credible as natural origins explanation"
it really doesn't change my opinion that if the lab leak hypothesis is born out though.
Lab Safety procedures would need to be reviewed and improved if possible. people who advocate for Gain of Function research may be less credible though in the eyes of the public.
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I think a major part of the evolution is how the origins discussion has been framed and how terms have been used. Perhaps the most important initial papers about the origins of the virus was published back in March 2020. They discussed all possibilities including animal to human transmission, inadvertent release from a lab, and direct genetic manipulation of the virus. So all of this has been on the table from the start. However, the previous administration was deadset on using the origins of SARS-CoV-2 as political retribution, and were formulating conclusions not based on actual evidence, but innuendo, and were pressuring intelligence agencies to find a connection. However, the intelligence community held as far back as April 2020 that both natural origins and a lab leak theory were possible, but there was no evidence the virus was engineered.
The problem with all of this, when people say "lab leak" they often conflate an accidental escape of the virus as also meaning the virus was engineered in the lab. They are really two different scenarios. As I've described in this thread, the idea that the virus was engineered in the lab doesn't hold up to scientific or logical scrutiny, but the accidental release idea remains possible for the simple reason there's no major evidence for and against it.
The fact that the current administration finds the lab leak theory as credible as the natural origins is most likely explained by the fact that there isn't "smoking gun" evidence for either theory at this point in time (as opposed to sudden discovery of evidence for a lab leak). Scientists haven't discovered a closely related coronavirus in animals yet, nor has anyone identified evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was sitting in the Wuhan lab in a sample.
Gain of function research isn't a prerequisite for the lab leak theory though.
There's as much evidence in support of the lab leak theory as there is for the stolen election theory, which is to say none at all. It's just part of flooding the zone & dangling conspiracy theory. Throwing in the gain of function bullshit blaming is a nice touch.
None at all? There’s no chance a sample escaped from a coronavirus research lab?
IIRC the head of the program at the Wuhan lab went mysteriously missing something like Dec. 2019, her photo also mysteriously missing from lab documentation. Something like 2 or 3 lab workers associated with the program became ill with symptoms not dissimilar to covid-19 at that time. I don't call these things "absolutely no evidence." And the Chinese have not been forthcoming in response to inquiries concerning these and other related information.There is absolutely no evidence that it did. The burden of proof is on the accuser. It's an excellent conspiracy theory that seems to be a big seller.
That’s a reasonable theory: other bat coronaviruses have jumped to humans the same way. In fact, it was the origin of SARS, a similar coronavirus that panicked the world in 2003 when it spread out of southern China and sickened 8,000 people. With SARS, researchers tested caged market animals and quickly found a nearly identical virus in Himalayan palm civet cats and raccoon dogs, which are also eaten locally.
This time, though, the intermediate-host hypothesis has one big problem. More than a year after covid-19 began, no food animal has been identified as a reservoir for the pandemic virus. That’s despite efforts by China to test tens of thousands of animals, including pigs, goats, and geese, according to Liang Wannian, who leads the Chinese side of the research team. No one has found a “direct progenitor” of the virus, he says, and therefore the pandemic “remains an unsolved mystery.”
Politics at play
It’s important to know how the pandemic started, because after killing more than 2.5 million people and causing trillions of dollars in economic losses, it’s not over. The virus may well be establishing itself in new species, like wild rabbits or even house pets. Learning how the pandemic began could help health experts avert the next one, or at least react more swiftly.
We know that the payoffs of origin hunting are real. After the 2003 SARS outbreak, researchers started building up a big knowledge base about this type of virus. That knowledge is what turbocharged the development process for vaccines against the new coronavirus in early 2020. One Chinese company, Sinovac Biotech, actually dusted off a 16-year-old vaccine design it had shelved after the SARS outbreak was contained.
*snip*
What’s certain is that the research to find the pandemic’s cause is politically charged because of the way it could assign blame for the global disaster. Since last spring, the hunt for the origin of what former president Donald Trump called the “China virus” has been in the crossfire of US-China trade battles and American charges that the WHO has played patsy for Beijing. China, meanwhile, has sought opportunities to spread responsibility.
Is someone gonna break down your door, nail you to a chair and start clipping your fingers off if you as much as hints at something china bad?There's as much evidence in support of the lab leak theory as there is for the stolen election theory, which is to say none at all. It's just part of flooding the zone & dangling conspiracy theory. Throwing in the gain of function bullshit blaming is a nice touch.
Well. Do you have PROOF? No? That never stopped no one from hanging a few folk... am i rite?There was no question from the start - but it was constantly trying to be suppressed by our shit media - including social media and calling it misinformation.
Only after the former CDC director came out and basically reminded everyone... No... you're retarded, it's absolutely a plausible theory - in fact it's the theory I'm most likely to believe... Did people finally ATTEMPT to pull their heads out of their asses.
Ex-CDC director says he believes coronavirus originated in Wuhan lab
Redfield also said he believes the virus was spreading as early as September 2019.www.axios.com
There was no question from the start - but it was constantly trying to be suppressed by our shit media - including social media and calling it misinformation.
Only after the former CDC director came out and basically reminded everyone... No... you're retarded, it's absolutely a plausible theory - in fact it's the theory I'm most likely to believe... Did people finally ATTEMPT to pull their heads out of their asses.
Ex-CDC director says he believes coronavirus originated in Wuhan lab
Redfield also said he believes the virus was spreading as early as September 2019.www.axios.com
IIRC the head of the program at the Wuhan lab went mysteriously missing something like Dec. 2019, her photo also mysteriously missing from lab documentation. Something like 2 or 3 lab workers associated with the program became will with symptoms not dissimilar with covid-19 at that time. I don't call these things "absolutely no evidence."
Even a broken clock is right 2x/day. So Trump may have been right 0.1% of the time before being kicked out of office.who knows maybe the recent open attitude of White House staffers to the Lab Leak Hypothesis only means that Trump has succeeded in mind controlling them...
It doesn't distract me in the slightest. The previous administration's shortcomings in dealing with the burgeoning pandemic irritated me more than anything in 2020. What gave rise to the pandemic is beside the point. The response to the pandemic was EVERYTHING. Trump and his ever rotating hideous ensemble of hacks and criminals fumbled the response on a continual basis.That's merely fodder for accusatory conjecture presented as mystery, conspiracy theory 101. It's distraction from the miserable leadership of Trump & his sycophants throughout this unfortunate adventure.
That is circumstantial though: co-existance doesn't prove cause and effect. By the same reasoning, a coronavirus lab would most likely be located where the viruses are most prevalent, and thus a high chance of jumping from an animal species to human. My personal take is that we dont really know the origin and probably never will.Is someone gonna break down your door, nail you to a chair and start clipping your fingers off if you as much as hints at something china bad?
No evidence. How about the fact that one of the only labs in existence doing research on juuuust that kinda strain kinda virus IS RIGHT THERE at the epicenter where it all began?
Its like being run over by the only car in existence but you didnt catch the plate. NO EVIDENCE.
You are highly irrational on this.
There is absolutely no evidence that it did. The burden of proof is on the accuser. It's an excellent conspiracy theory that seems to be a big seller.
There's circumstantial evidence for both (either?). To say that "it's clear" or even that there's "strong evidence" that it's a lab leak is intellectually dishonest. It certainly may have been (an unintentional leak, and personally I do think it would be important to know for sure), but we definitely do not have strong evidence that it was.So I have a question and it may seem kinda dumb but keep in mind it is an honest one.
Is there any more evidence that this originated in a food market in China versus the evidence that this originated from a virology lab in China?
How is he being dismissive by asking for proof?We moved pretty quick from impossible to can’t prove it here.
I definitely don’t know that it was a lab leak but to dismiss the possibility because it can’t be proven is ridiculous. There’s no proof of where it came from yet either, so the best answer is that we don’t know.
It’s certainly not impossible that a sample taken at some point in the past was accidentally leaked from the lab.
100% true that. Well 99% as my mind went to the same place as yours, we have an expert in this field on here and reasoning of putting the lab close to the samples in the wild is invalid.. Ill try and dig it up, it was a lengthy convo.That is circumstantial though: co-existance doesn't prove cause and effect. By the same reasoning, a coronavirus lab would most likely be located where the viruses are most prevalent, and thus a high chance of jumping from an animal species to human. My personal take is that we dont really know the origin and probably never will.
There's also 0% evidence it came from a wild source. Need to bear that in mind when we talk about what's 'clear' or 'impossible'. Else you may as well say 'it came from an alien visitor' since there's just as much evidence of that as there is that it was either a lab leak or a natural mutation.There's circumstantial evidence for both (either?). To say that "it's clear" or even that there's "strong evidence" that it's a lab leak is intellectually dishonest. It certainly may have been (an unintentional leak, and personally I do think it would be important to know for sure), but we definitely do not have strong evidence that it was.
I think the answer to that is absolutely no. There's zero evidence that it originated in that wet market. Personally, I think the lab leak is the likeliest scenario. Likely the origin is bats. Did they alter the virus in the lab? That we may never know.So I have a question and it may seem kinda dumb but keep in mind it is an honest one.
Is there any more evidence that this originated in a food market in China versus the evidence that this originated from a virology lab in China?