So what exactly is wrong with an islamic Iraq?

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: MajorCaliber

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: MajorCaliber
We have defeated Iraq in War. We make the rules, we can draft a constitution just like we did for Japan. It's the right thing to do.

Obviously you know nothing about geopolitics or international relations. That belligerent and uncompromising attitude leads us in exactly the WRONG direction.

No, you are wrong! That is the attitude we had after WW2, and it works. We don't have to kiss up to any country, or the UN. We can and should make the rules, might makes right. We don't need the World to like us, only fear and obey!

What are you, possesed by Rummy? Is he communicating through you? Anyway, this attitude is wrong because as mighty as we are, we still went through 9/11, and the weapons used were box cutters. Also, we might overrun countries, but its only going to make people hate us more, and it is individuals, not professional armies that we need to fear. People may obey us, but if 9/11 is any indicator, you are not going to ever have everyone fear us.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
HDJ1: And then he invades Poland... I mean Kuwait all democratically like and aligns itself with Iran and the others to invade Saudi Arabia and Israel... all democratic like..
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All democratic like? You must mean preemptively, right?


I still think the easiest way out of all this is to make them the 51st state. Just change the name to Texiraqkansaw.

Re Haybusrider... Well... I suppose it is but, what choice do we have given their NEW FREEDOM.. HOw can they think like the DEVIL we are..

Moonster, without so much as a wisper... like a thief in the night... and under the gaze of our $90000000000000000000
intel gizmos... they will become Islam's finest... and us.... well.. we can take credit for it too... and probably will if we can get oil lowered a buck or two a barrel.

 

[rudder]

The main problem with an Islamic Iraq is that the 60% of the shiites want to run the country. That makes the Shia and the Sunni and Kurdish population that will have little power in the running of their own lives. This will ultimately lead to some serious problems. Maybe that is how Saddam was initially bred into existance in the first place.

We have some loudmouths in this country like Falwell and PAt robertson, but at least other than being loud mouths there is enough balance where these people don't really have power to tell me how to run my life. The various Iraqi ethnicities and religious sects somehow need to learn how to respect others peoples beliefs. Their government should run independant of any particular sect of islam, but I don't really ever seeing this happen.

 

[Nitemare]

state religions = EVIL

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
state religions = EVIL

Except of course the Vatican..

 

[LunarRay]

Kurdisstan, Shiiteania, and Sunnivill are starting to sound resonable aspirations for the followers thereof..

 

[Moonbeam]

We could allow it to become Trans- and Cis-Alpine Turkey. That should solve the Kurdish part of the problem.

 

[mastertech01]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

our Christian nation did/does with all it's patriachcal and puritain laws

what? patriachal and puritain laws....what a bizarre characterization....

just don't see how the majority will can be supressed

the design of the constitution, and the separation of powers guarantees rights to the "minority" in our society..
hence "freedom of speech", hence "separation of church and state", the constitution protects the rights of the
minority from the tyranny of the majority..it is a bizarre characterization to say that "suppression of the majority will = dictatorship"
the constitution is a set of rules...
to have the "majority" express their will
without rules is the definition of "mob rule"

i believe that Secretary Rumsfeld is stating is that their won't be "mob rule" in Iraq..
there's going to be a democratic multi-ethnic representative government..probably with
a constitution that we help craft. The religious "leaders" are not going to have direct political
power in Iraq..you can absolutely sure of that. In Iran, the elected representatives of the people
can pass any law they want, but a religious "Board of Directors" reviews everything the elected officials do, and can
crush any activities they deem inappropriate..that won't be happening either.

is Islam and democracy and the freedoms we value incompatable in any form?

what? Turkey is a democracy with strict separation of "church" and state. Turkey is 98% Moslem.
how do you come up with these statements?

finally - you've got to understand we live in a republic..authority is granted the government by the people,
the government must operate within a framework of laws, with separation of executive, judiciary and legislative powers, and
laws exist to protect the individual...democracy is an incomplete description of what will govern iraq..

Well said and exactly what I believe is our intent. To create a republic in Iraq.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: HJD1

Originally posted by: Nitemare
state religions = EVIL

Except of course the Vatican..

only to young boys... :Q

 

[Michael]

The Vatican is a tiny area of Rome. It is a country, technically, but it is almost a moot point. You just trying to bash on Catholics?

Heck - the Pope is democratically elected - that should be OK, right?

Michael

 

[Jolyon33]

First of all, Iraq is an Islamic country. I think the question is whether Islamic religious beliefs will be the founding basis of the new government. An Iranian style theocracy would be a disaster for us. Any government based on Islamic fundamentalism is inately anti-american and would make the whole war a waste of time.

Iran is not a true democracy nor were the theocracy elected. Iran is not a true democracy because the theocratic elements of the government are not responsible to the electorate or under the control thereof. Actually, something of the reverse is true. The theocracy holds the ultimate veto power over the legislature.

As far as drafting a new constitution, we should take the lead and see that it is done properly. We must quit worrying over what "everyone else thinks". This kind of b.s. that we can't do anything properly without being led around by the hand is the worst kind of politically correct crap. Most of the people who say we should let others do this are those who want us to ultimately fail so we will "behave" in the future.

Most arab countries want us out of Iraq and don't really care what kind of government is put there, they just want us out at any cost. They would be pleased if we "lost the peace" because they would not have too worry about there own dictatorial *sses.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Michael
The Vatican is a tiny area of Rome. It is a country, technically, but it is almost a moot point. You just trying to bash on Catholics?

Heck - the Pope is democratically elected - that should be OK, right?

Michael

Michael, the pope is elected by the cardinals not the population of the vatican... assuming not everyone is a cardinal.. and there in exists the buddy system at work... I am catholic.. a christian... but, I ain't gonna be fed to the lions to proove a point.

 

[Red Dawn]

So what exactly is wrong with an islamic Iraq?

Hey you think we are going to spend all that money overthrowing Hussien just to let some Religious group with an affinity for cutting off hands and feet take over? That would be like the Religious Right having influence over Dubya! That would be like letting a Catholic Priest babysit your young male children. It ain't going to happen!

Errr..wait a second, forget the part about Dubya sucking up to the Religious Right.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We could allow it to become Trans- and Cis-Alpine Turkey. That should solve the Kurdish part of the problem.

They haven't got it yet.... it is "WE COULD" in everything now that THEY are free...
I want my own country too... Celticville... in downtown london...!!

I think to square up things a bit the Sunni with sticks and the Shiite with guns should once and forall settle the question of "Separation of Church and State".

 

[Moonbeam]

Celticville... in downtown london...!!
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hehe, me Irish blood had to settle for a Cadillac Deville...in downtown San Francisco.

Red, isn't it fun how the islamic religion in Iraq and the knotty problem of religious freedom and the Religious Christian right in America create some nasty parallels that require some major rationalizations to paper over. Seems like we're just itching to hate those moslems, those of us in elected life. Think of the votes that would garner. But at the same time we got to pander to our fundies and not scare them with a religious wipe out . What goes around could come around. I'm sure that the polititions are just itching to bash Islam, but they still want to play nice for oil. Life's a bitch. I sometimes wonder what goes on in our fundamentalist heads when they see the Iranian Mullahs. Think they envy their power. There's no law like that that springs directly from my hand as the will of God. WOW! What a feeling is certainty.

 

[Alistar7]

"There's no law like that that springs directly from my hand as the will of God. WOW! What a feeling is certainty."

And look what it leads to...

 

[Moonbeam]

And look what it leads to...
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Meaning what?

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
"There's no law like that that springs directly from my hand as the will of God. WOW! What a feeling is certainty."

And look what it leads to...

"it" meaning certainty or "it" meaning law or "it" meaning hand or "it" meaning "will of God ?