So what do opponents of the Iran deal hope to achieve?

[kage69]

You put the cart ahead of the horse. Reid's actions were in response to Repub Obstructionism.

'Point of order' just isn't their thing, as we've seen all too often.

 

[Jhhnn]

Damnit man you spoiled it I wanted to see how long he would go without realizing he..arhghghg

He's dragged out that trope of distraction so many times that he'll obviously never realize the truth. His large emotional commitment won't allow it.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

As does mine:

"Over the years I've seen enough threads featuring you hoisted by your own dishonest petard to know you are one of the egg-wearing clowns I mentioned."

The way you're acting you'd think it was Reid who led the filibuster to new records of use, or considered political dogma more important than veterans, kids and national security, oath of office, etc etc.

Thanks for representing the talk radio angle on it, duly noted. Pretty much what years of being here has led me to expect from you. Thanks for playing along.

If you want to take this up in another thread, go for it, but we probably get back to Iran and the faction of mouthy Americans who are failing at supporting their war like intentions.

I only had time to look up one bill, HR 448 (S1821) Elder Abuse Victims Act...as it's ludicrous to think Republicans are somehow against elderly abuse. Looks like Reid stuck it in a Democratically controlled committee and it was never to be seen again.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/house-bill/448

02/12/2009 Received in the Senate and Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Looks like you're full of shit.

 

[K1052]

I only had time to look up one bill, HR 448 (S1821) Elder Abuse Victims Act...as it's ludicrous to think Republicans are somehow against elderly abuse. Looks like Reid stuck it in a Democratically controlled committee and it was never to be seen again.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/house-bill/448


Looks like you're full of shit.

Never to be seen again until it large parts of it were incorporated into the ACA since the Senate was working their own version.

Per FAS:

In the 111th Congress, Senator Orrin Hatch introduced the Elder Justice Act of 2009 (S. 795) which addressed public health and social services approaches to the issue. A separate bill (H.R. 2006) was introduced in the House by Representative Peter T. King, which, in addition to the public health and social services provisions also included criminal justice provisions. The Senate bill (S. 795) was incorporated into the Senate Finance Committee’s health reform bill (S. 1796) and subsequently adopted in the Senate health reform bill (H.R. 3590) which became the ACA (P.L. 111-148).

Subsequent attempts to add in the criminal justice provisions originally proposed have died in the Republican controlled House. Should the stated desire of the Republican party come to pass and the ACA get repealed the existing protections would be voided as well.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Never to be seen again until it large parts of it were incorporated into the ACA since the Senate was working their own version.

Per FAS:



Subsequent attempts to add in the criminal justice provisions originally proposed have died in the Republican controlled House. Should the stated desire of the Republican party come to pass and the ACA get repealed the existing protections would be voided as well.

He specifically listed HR 448 and blamed it's demise on Republican obstructionism, when it in fact it died in Reid's Senate. kage69 lied. How many more lies has he told in that post?

 

[K1052]

He specifically listed HR 448 and blamed it's demise on Republican obstructionism, when it in fact it died in Reid's Senate. kage69 lied. How many more lies has he told in that post?

That representation does seem to be inaccurate but so is yours since the Senate had a bill on a parallel track (passed shortly after as part of the ACA) which included substantial components of the House bill.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That representation does seem to be inaccurate but so is yours since the Senate had a bill on a parallel track (passed shortly after as part of the ACA) which included substantial components of the House bill.

Look...I understand that there have been a couple subsequent iterations of this bill in 2011 and 2013 which have various histories. But that's all besides the point...kage69 specifically pointed to HR 448 as an example of Republican obstructionism and this is an outright LIE. Hell, I just randomly picked only one of the bills he listed, makes one wonder just how many other lies he's told in that post.

 

[Newell Steamer]

whats your response to the democrats opposing the deal?

They are just as fucking stupid as well.

Say, did any of them sign/support the letter the GOP sent out in a treasonous defying tone against the President?

 

[fskimospy]

Reid used a tactic called 'filling the amendment tree' which means filling the amendment docket by adding amendments with inconsequential changes that no one else could override. Reid used this tactic more than ANY of his predecessors in order to prevent Republican-sponsored amendments from being heard on the floor. Republicans discontinued this highly partisan practice and allowed more Democrat sponsored amendments in 2 weeks (January 2015) than Reid allowed Republicans during the entire prior year (2014).

You seem to be ignorant of Reid's obstruction shenanigan's...but that somehow doesn't surprise me. When Republicans took control they actually allowed up-and-down votes on Democratic amendments...what a concept!

EDIT:
In addition, as of August, 2014, 352 bills were sitting on Harry Reid’s desk (or in Senate Democrat controlled committees) awaiting action...98% were passed in the House with bipartisan support, 50% were passed unanimously, 70% were passed with two-thirds support and over 55 of these bills were introduced by Democrats. Reid's record speaks for itself, polish that turd all you want though and divert all the blame like a good little hack living in an altered reality.

Are you STILL trying to blame Republicans' record filibustering on Harry Reid filling the tree? Here's a hint: that suffers from a basic temporal ordering problem.

You can certainly blame Reid for disallowing amendments, as that was fundamentally undemocratic, but attempting to excuse Republicans' behavior on things he did in response to their behavior defies logic. Any person who is looking at the situation objectively should be able to admit that the Republican Senate minority obstructed the function of the Senate to an unprecedented degree.

 

[kage69]

I only had time to look up one bill, HR 448 (S1821) Elder Abuse Victims Act...as it's ludicrous to think Republicans are somehow against (sic)elderly abuse. Looks like Reid stuck it in a Democratically controlled committee and it was never to be seen again.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/house-bill/448


Looks like you're full of shit.

Of course you see shit; it's pretty much the only view when your head's up your ass. Is this where I'm supposed to act surprised you are cherry picking and acting naive?

Of course republicans are against elderly abuse you silly thing you, they just don't think helping prevent it and holding offenders accountable is worth the staggering sum of $3 million per year.

Yes, I'm sure Reid decided to waste time getting republicans from Texas and New York to cosponsor the bill, just to flush it even though it had wide support everywhere else and was surprisingly low cost. Brilliant theory. It's like you seriously don't understand how a filibuster works, how votes are blocked, or that compromise doesn't mean one side always gets to say No.

Quit being a clown.

 

[cabri]

Of course you see shit; it's pretty much the only view when your head's up your ass. Is this where I'm supposed to act surprised you are cherry picking and acting naive?

Of course republicans are against elderly abuse you silly thing you, they just don't think helping prevent it and holding offenders accountable is worth the staggering sum of $3 million per year.

Yes, I'm sure Reid decided to waste time getting republicans from Texas and New York to cosponsor the bill, just to flush it even though it had wide support everywhere else and was surprisingly low cost. Brilliant theory. It's like you seriously don't understand how a filibuster works, how votes are blocked, or that compromise doesn't mean one side always gets to say No.

Quit being a clown.

There was no attempt to allow the Senate to look at the bill. Reid all the way on that issue.

 

[michal1980]

Oh this deal is just AMAZING.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-08-19-13-06-05

But the agreement diverges from normal inspection procedures between the IAEA and a member country by essentially ceding the agency's investigative authority to Iran. It allows Tehran to employ its own experts and equipment in the search for evidence for activities that it has consistently denied - trying to develop nuclear weapons.

IAEA experts would normally take environmental samples for evidence of any weapons development work, but the agreement stipulates that Iranian technicians will do the sampling.

LOL. 'Oh yes, Iran we will let you inspect your own sites, and then tell us if you did anything bad. Will you pink swear that you wont lie? You will? GREAT'

 

[cabri]

Fox guarding the chicken house.

Not only can the IAEA not go to the site; but they also have to reply on Iran to provide the verification data.

confidential agreement because they do not want the world to know how the keys were handed over to Iran :thumbsdown:

 

[ivwshane]

I only had time to look up one bill, HR 448 (S1821) Elder Abuse Victims Act...as it's ludicrous to think Republicans are somehow against elderly abuse. Looks like Reid stuck it in a Democratically controlled committee and it was never to be seen again.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/house-bill/448


Looks like you're full of shit.

You apparently don't understand how the senate works. Sending a bill to a committee is part of the standard process on how laws are made. So I'm not sure how this example supports your argument.

Feel free to educate yourself by reading this:

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/lawsmade.toc.html

 

[ivwshane]

There was no attempt to allow the Senate to look at the bill. Reid all the way on that issue.

You too, appear ignorant of how the senate works.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

You can read the wording of the agreement if you wish. Sanctions will snap back, and there is an implicit understanding that military options are on the table.

Now please address the points I made.

And at that point they have the bomb.

 

[cabri]

You too, appear ignorant of how the senate works.

And if the majority leader does not want the bill out if comittee, it does not come out.

Why would Reid send it back to committee twice. To bury it?

 

[cabri]

You can read the wording of the agreement if you wish. Sanctions will snap back, and there is an implicit understanding that military options are on the table.

Now please address the points I made.

Funny that nothing has been done already regarding sanction breaking.

Over one month and all talk about going to the UN.

24 day limit is a joke if it takes 30 or more days to even talk about a violation, let alone doing something about it.

And given the latest expose, how can they even detect a violation when the IAEA can not even try to inspect a critical area.

 

[ivwshane]

And if the majority leader does not want the bill out if comittee, it does not come out.

Why would Reid send it back to committee twice. To bury it?

Again, you don't seem to understand the process. The bill went to committee, it was never voted on, so it never left. That's not up to reid, it's up to the committee chairman. Do you know why it never left committee? Because it was incorporated into the ACA:

http://www.nlrc.aoa.gov/Legal_Issues/Elder_Abuse/Elder_Justice_Act.aspx

Do you remember who voted against the ACA? Do you remember which party has and still actively pushes to vote against the ACA? Do you know which presidential candidates are actively campaigning to repeal the ACA?

 

[kage69]

Again, you don't seem to understand the process. The bill went to committee, it was never voted on, so it never left. That's not up to reid, it's up to the committee chairman. Do you know why it never left committee? Because it was incorporated into the ACA:

http://www.nlrc.aoa.gov/Legal_Issues/Elder_Abuse/Elder_Justice_Act.aspx

Do you remember who voted against the ACA? Do you remember which party has and still actively pushes to vote against the ACA? Do you know which presidential candidates are actively campaigning to repeal the ACA?

I think you're being overly charitable to someone who has long ago decided to maintain that KoolAid buzz. Like I said earlier to him:

"It's like you seriously don't understand how a filibuster works, how votes are blocked, or that compromise doesn't mean one side always gets to say No."

I for one think it's swell he decided to demonstrate exactly that with his little interpretive dance, but I'm not going to indulge him here anymore. I think eskimospy put it rather well -

"Any person who is looking at the situation objectively should be able to admit that the Republican Senate minority obstructed the function of the Senate to an unprecedented degree."

I think I'm going to make a separate thread about the 111th Congress. DSF's normal intellectual dishonesty trying to shield the GOP from the responsibility it wants people to forget about should be featured here some more.

 

[Jhhnn]

And at that point they have the bomb.

Incorrect. The deal specifies that Iran downblend & dispose of their stocks of enriched uranium, mothball existing facilities. They'd basically have to start from scratch at reduced capacity & the IAEA would rat them out as soon as they tried. Previous linkage indicates they'd need about a year to create 1 (uno) nuclear device.

 

[Mxylplyx]

And at that point they have the bomb.

You must think you are more qualified to speak to this subject than our nations foremost nuclear weapons experts. Would you confirm or deny this?