So we're deploying an ineffective missile defense system to Poland...

[irishScott]

what?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7571660.stm

The US has spent more than $100bn (£54bn) in the last two decades on its controversial project to develop defences against ballistic missiles.

Critics say that, despite all that money, the Pentagon still has not proved the system can work in realistic conditions.

The deal has angered Russia, which has warned the base could become a target for a nuclear strike.

Moscow has argued the project will upset the military balance in Europe and has warned it will be forced to redirect its missiles at Poland.

While Washington believes placing 10 interceptor missiles on a disused military base near Poland's Baltic Sea coast will protect much of Nato against possible long-range attacks, Warsaw sees threats much closer to home, says the BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw.

That is why it demanded - in exchange for hosting the base - short-range Patriot missiles for its own air defences and a guarantee that the US will come to its assistance in the event of an attack, our correspondent adds.

Why do I get the feeling that the Cold War never ended, it just went on hiatus. I can see them getting pissed about the patriot missiles, but they are short range, and I doubt Poland is going to attack Russia anytime soon.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Russia is pissed because they're building up the power to expand and re-establish the Union. Things do look pretty grim though - if Russia decides to go to war, then Iran will go with it. And who knows what China would do?

 

[RESmonkey]

Originally posted by: irishScott
what?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7571660.stm

The US has spent more than $100bn (£54bn) in the last two decades on its controversial project to develop defences against ballistic missiles.

Critics say that, despite all that money, the Pentagon still has not proved the system can work in realistic conditions.

The deal has angered Russia, which has warned the base could become a target for a nuclear strike.

Moscow has argued the project will upset the military balance in Europe and has warned it will be forced to redirect its missiles at Poland.

While Washington believes placing 10 interceptor missiles on a disused military base near Poland's Baltic Sea coast will protect much of Nato against possible long-range attacks, Warsaw sees threats much closer to home, says the BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw.

That is why it demanded - in exchange for hosting the base - short-range Patriot missiles for its own air defences and a guarantee that the US will come to its assistance in the event of an attack, our correspondent adds.

Why do I get the feeling that the Cold War never ended, it just went on hiatus. I can see them getting pissed about the patriot missiles, but they are short range, and I doubt Poland is going to attack Russia anytime soon.

SNAKE!!!!

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: irishScott
what?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7571660.stm

The US has spent more than $100bn (£54bn) in the last two decades on its controversial project to develop defences against ballistic missiles.

Critics say that, despite all that money, the Pentagon still has not proved the system can work in realistic conditions.

The deal has angered Russia, which has warned the base could become a target for a nuclear strike.

Moscow has argued the project will upset the military balance in Europe and has warned it will be forced to redirect its missiles at Poland.

While Washington believes placing 10 interceptor missiles on a disused military base near Poland's Baltic Sea coast will protect much of Nato against possible long-range attacks, Warsaw sees threats much closer to home, says the BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw.

That is why it demanded - in exchange for hosting the base - short-range Patriot missiles for its own air defences and a guarantee that the US will come to its assistance in the event of an attack, our correspondent adds.

Why do I get the feeling that the Cold War never ended, it just went on hiatus.

Strategic missile defense:
/facepalm

Current US foreign relations:
/facepalm

Any second now you'll have several responses claiming that ICBM's can in fact be intercepted using current technology and that Bush needs to get tough on Russia... I wonder that Palin lady would have to say on the subject? She's an expert on Russia and the Bush doctrine, right? Seems like a smart gal.

 

[Queasy]

The missile defense system is not ineffective. Unproven in a live fire situation, yes. But, it has had a string of successes in test situations including multiple targets. It was also used to bring down that satellite a while back.

Ask yourself this, if it was so ineffective....would Russia really be pissed off about it?

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Queasy
The missile defense system is not ineffective. Unproven in a live fire situation, yes. But, it has had a string of successes in test situations including multiple targets. It was also used to bring down that satellite a while back.

Ask yourself this, if it was so ineffective....would Russia really be pissed off about it?

Because Russia wants Poland to be it's eternal bitch and doesn't like anything that says otherwise?

 

[KIRBYEE]

.

 

[George P Burdell]

This war-mongering is brought to you by the military industrial complex.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Any second now you'll have several responses claiming that ICBM's can in fact be intercepted using current technology and that Bush needs to get tough on Russia... I wonder that Palin lady would have to say on the subject? She's an expert on Russia and the Bush doctrine, right? Seems like a smart gal.

The technology works. But I don't really see what this has to do with Palin. She's just there to get female votes for McCain. I mean honestly, "Alaska is the closest to Russia - she has foreign policy experience." - When was Alaska attacked by Russia?

But really, let's not turn this into P&N.

 

[badkarma1399]

meh, Russia really needs to stop complaining. Nobody's listening and nobody cares. They're far outgunned and are unable to act on any of their threats.

While I don't the missile defense system is at all necessary, allowing it is a good way for Poland to give the finger back at Russia for all the shit they put Poland and the other eastern block states through.

 

[RichardE]

Poland is gonna start it again.../sigh

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: Queasy
The missile defense system is not ineffective. Unproven in a live fire situation, yes. But, it has had a string of successes in test situations including multiple targets. It was also used to bring down that satellite a while back.

Ask yourself this, if it was so ineffective....would Russia really be pissed off about it?

That's some poor reasoning. By that standard you could say "if russia wasn't planning on nuking western europe, why would they be pissed that a defense system was in place?" Obviously asinine. The reason that Russia is pissed is because of the expansion of cold-war era military alliances that they're obviously not invited to be part of. It has nothing to do with the actual missile system itself - even if it did work.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: Queasy
The missile defense system is not ineffective. Unproven in a live fire situation, yes. But, it has had a string of successes in test situations including multiple targets. It was also used to bring down that satellite a while back.

Ask yourself this, if it was so ineffective....would Russia really be pissed off about it?

That's some poor reasoning. By that standard you could say "if russia wasn't planning on nuking western europe, why would they be pissed that a defense system was in place?" Obviously asinine. The reason that Russia is pissed is because of the expansion of cold-war era military alliances that they're obviously not invited to be part of. It has nothing to do with the actual missile system itself - even if it did work.

Russia is simply throwing empty threats around, because it makes them feel good. Russia is slowly rebuilding, and while they are not a military threat as of yet, the Putin government is rebuilding Russia's economy, and slowly the military, in far-reaching hopes they can one day return to the days of the Soviet Union might.

But Russia isn't being ridiculous about how it goes about making these threats. Because in all honesty, they will force a large scale war, and it's likely that it would be a one-sided nuclear war, unless it went too far. Russia using nuclear bombs would piss of the UN and gather some thin support from China, Iran, and North Korea, among others, I think the only other country in the world that would want to actually retaliate with nukes would be Israel, but I doubt they would because of how easy it would be to wipe that country from the face of the Earth.

Russia would love to continue the Cold War, however, at their rate, I expect China to enter into a new Cold War before Russia returns.

 

[SirStev0]

Good thing there is an excellent chance we'll have Sarah Palin in command. That firey hockey mom will put that mean old Putin in his place.

 

[JS80]

USOR - Union of Soviet Oligarch Republics

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: Queasy
The missile defense system is not ineffective. Unproven in a live fire situation, yes. But, it has had a string of successes in test situations including multiple targets. It was also used to bring down that satellite a while back.

Ask yourself this, if it was so ineffective....would Russia really be pissed off about it?

That's some poor reasoning. By that standard you could say "if russia wasn't planning on nuking western europe, why would they be pissed that a defense system was in place?" Obviously asinine. The reason that Russia is pissed is because of the expansion of cold-war era military alliances that they're obviously not invited to be part of. It has nothing to do with the actual missile system itself - even if it did work.

Russia is simply throwing empty threats around, because it makes them feel good. Russia is slowly rebuilding, and while they are not a military threat as of yet, the Putin government is rebuilding Russia's economy, and slowly the military, in far-reaching hopes they can one day return to the days of the Soviet Union might.

But Russia isn't being ridiculous about how it goes about making these threats. Because in all honesty, they will force a large scale war, and it's likely that it would be a one-sided nuclear war, unless it went too far. Russia using nuclear bombs would piss of the UN and gather some thin support from China, Iran, and North Korea, among others, I think the only other country in the world that would want to actually retaliate with nukes would be Israel, but I doubt they would because of how easy it would be to wipe that country from the face of the Earth.

Russia would love to continue the Cold War, however, at their rate, I expect China to enter into a new Cold War before Russia returns.

It isn't just to make themselves feel good; it allows them to throw a little weight around. It is quite obvious why Poland would want a missile defense system. They just made their move. They just bit their thumb at Russia.

Now Russia gets to ask if they just bit their thumb at them. Poland/US won't deny that they do bit their thumb. And Russia will get to Press to see if it was them they bit their thumb at. (a little Shakespeare analogy if you will).

It is all a little game, a little play. A pissing contest with missiles and warheads.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: SirStev0

It is all a little game, a little play. A pissing contest with missiles and warheads.

This is exactly right, and it also describes the vast majority of foreign relations. This is how the game is played, and the current administration hasn't been doing us any favors.

It should make one think twice about what kind of people belong in the white house, but most folks aren't capable of even thinking once.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: George P Burdell
This war-mongering is brought to you by the military industrial complex.

Through grants and contracts handed to them by their respective governments at the expense of their citizens.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
Russia is pissed because they're building up the power to expand and re-establish the Union. Things do look pretty grim though - if Russia decides to go to war, then Iran will go with it. And who knows what China would do?

This.

Or perhaps instead they see the US attacking a couple of nations in the past several years and now setting up an ICBM shield outside its frontdoor and they're a little worried.

BTW the shield IS crap. It's worked in very specific test conditions. It might work on a real ICBM. Who knows? I certainly wouldn't want to find out when it matters and have very little faith that it would stop a couple that popped up unexpectedly.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
Russia is pissed because they're building up the power to expand and re-establish the Union. Things do look pretty grim though - if Russia decides to go to war, then Iran will go with it. And who knows what China would do?

This.

Or perhaps instead they see the US attacking a couple of nations in the past several years and now setting up an ICBM shield outside its frontdoor and they're a little worried.

BTW the shield IS crap. It's worked in very specific test conditions. It might work on a real ICBM. Who knows? I certainly wouldn't want to find out when it matters and have very little faith that it would stop a couple that popped up unexpectedly.

Until Russia's little adventure in Georgia the negotiations for the missile shield in Poland had stalled hard for a year and a half and weren't going anywhere with public opinion running high against it.

Oddly enough there are some European states than regard re-emerging Russian dominance of the region as an signifigant concern, though I'm not sure why what is....

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
Russia is pissed because they're building up the power to expand and re-establish the Union. Things do look pretty grim though - if Russia decides to go to war, then Iran will go with it. And who knows what China would do?

This.

Or perhaps instead they see the US attacking a couple of nations in the past several years and now setting up an ICBM shield outside its frontdoor and they're a little worried.

BTW the shield IS crap. It's worked in very specific test conditions. It might work on a real ICBM. Who knows? I certainly wouldn't want to find out when it matters and have very little faith that it would stop a couple that popped up unexpectedly.

Until Russia's little adventure in Georgia the negotiations for the missile shield in Poland had stalled hard for a year and a half and weren't going anywhere with public opinion running high against it.

Oddly enough there are some European states than regard re-emerging Russian dominance of the region as an signifigant concern, though I'm not sure why what is....

i hope that was sarcasm.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
Russia is pissed because they're building up the power to expand and re-establish the Union. Things do look pretty grim though - if Russia decides to go to war, then Iran will go with it. And who knows what China would do?

This.

Or perhaps instead they see the US attacking a couple of nations in the past several years and now setting up an ICBM shield outside its frontdoor and they're a little worried.

BTW the shield IS crap. It's worked in very specific test conditions. It might work on a real ICBM. Who knows? I certainly wouldn't want to find out when it matters and have very little faith that it would stop a couple that popped up unexpectedly.

Until Russia's little adventure in Georgia the negotiations for the missile shield in Poland had stalled hard for a year and a half and weren't going anywhere with public opinion running high against it.

Oddly enough there are some European states than regard re-emerging Russian dominance of the region as an signifigant concern, though I'm not sure why what is....

i hope that was sarcasm.

 

[AeroEngy]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
Any second now you'll have several responses claiming that ICBM's can in fact be intercepted using current technology and that Bush needs to get tough on Russia... I wonder that Palin lady would have to say on the subject? She's an expert on Russia and the Bush doctrine, right? Seems like a smart gal.

Well Palin is the governor of the state that currently host the majority of the Missile Defense system that is currently in use (see Fort Greely). However, she probably still knows nothing about it, really.

Also the system is not ineffective. It has worked in several tests. Some will argue they are to scripted .... maybe. Tests that are as expensive to conduct as these are need to be scripted if you want to collect all possible data to improve upon the systems. Especially since the entire system uses Spiral development. Where you design, build, test, analyze, and repeat until an optimal solution arises ( ... an expensive solution granted).

Anyway everyone (Russia included) knows the system could not defend against a Russian ballistic missile strike. Russia's nuclear option if it came to a real nuclear war would not be a limited (<10)missile strike against Europe. It would be sufficiently large enough to overwhelm any system we could put in place. As stated before Russia is just using this as an excuse to blow out some hot air.

 

[theeedude]

I thought the system was designed to protect EU from Iran. I wonder why the US, and not EU taxpayer has to pay for it though.

 

[ayabe]

File this under "No shit"

It doesn't work, it never has, and whatever we're hoping it will one day do, is already obsolete.

So it's a complete farce.