DarkThinker
Platinum Member
- Mar 17, 2007
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kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
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It is a statement of fact.
How about you try accepting the fact that "Israeli-Syrian teensions" mentioned in that quote is a reference to Israel openly threaten to invade Syria, and Egypt's massing of forces and restrictions on shipping were undertaken along with diplomatic attempts to prevent that conflict which Israel ignored in favor of bombing Egpyt.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,591
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What are the Arabs comprimising on?
There have been four major conflicts. Israel controlled more land every time to create a buffer against the false peace that was previously agreed to.
The Arabs (as a group) have not kept their peace promises. What should Israel think - allow a knife at her belly in exchange for another peace promise.
Hamas has never stopped throwing at them even though Palestinians implied that land would be exchanged for peace.
So Israel is the only nation in the history of the world that does not care to expand their borders?
bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,030
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It is really just insane that these two populations, totaling a mere 10-12 million people, receive so much attention from the rest of the world. I mean, how much war, fighting, and aggression has been caused all over the planet just because of this little mess in the Middle East? How many resources, how much money, how much policy is effected by this small region? Am I the only one who thinks this is bizarre, that people should take a few steps back and see this conflict for what it really is?
fallout man
Golden Member
- Nov 20, 2007
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Israel will forever be comfrotable with a state of war, as long as they are able to suck my tax-dollars from Lady Liberty's teet.
The Israelis don't proportionately suffer the carnage and injustice they dole out to the people they keep in a modern day concentration camp. Save for a few sane voices within Israel, most of that country is perfectly happy with the situation, and the rest of world eats it up like the tastiest cake.
The Israelis don't proportionately suffer the carnage and injustice they dole out to the people they keep in a modern day concentration camp. Save for a few sane voices within Israel, most of that country is perfectly happy with the situation, and the rest of world eats it up like the tastiest cake.
No. You are definitely not the only one that sees this.
The problem is religion. And I mean all religions too. Not just Judaism or Islam or Christianity. But all of them. The Jews want their holy land. The Palestinians want their holy land. The Muslims want to stand up for the Palestinians because then they get unfettered access to their holy lands. And the Christians want to keep their holy lands in the hands of the Jews because they are afraid of the evil Muslims and what they might do to their holy land.
If people could just pull their heads out of the arse of whatever little feel good fairy tale cult that they proclaim to be a part of and realize that the only sect that counts is the human race sect, we would be able to get along with our lives and just deal with the greedy bastards trying to grab power at any cost instead of being pitted against each other in these perpetuated, choreographed squabbles designed to keep us looking right while the powerful few run an end around the left.
With this current plan:
1) Existence of Israel and full economic and political normalization
2) Allowing Israel to keep 78% of the land
3) The Right of Return (that plan stated that a just solution needs to be found...it did not explicitly state that the right of return must be honored)
If you actually speak to any of the older Palestinians, especially those who remember those early days, you'll see that it is such an emotional event that to simply say "what the are arabs compromising on" as if there is no compromise is such a callous and empty statement.
You say Arabs (as a group) have not kept peace promises. Israel hasn't either. Every statement of removing settlements is followed with flashy pictures of foreful removal of boonies, which massive construction projects are quietly approved on the other hand. The 90s saw a doubling of settlements.
There is no knife at the belly of Israel. It is Israel with the knife and it has cut open the belly of the Palestinians so many times while convincing people that it is purely defensive.
edit:
wtf i replied to like 10 others in this thread as well!1!! Gah...I hate it when this shit happens
DarkThinker
Platinum Member
- Mar 17, 2007
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That area of the world is but an arena, a single arena in what amounts to be a `World Cup` of politics.
The fight is on such a bigger magnitude we all know that, it's so big it's hard to envision without witnessing (which I hope we never do, but we will at some point from how things are...)
Another example but more on a micro level, Lebanon for instance. Lebanon is about 1682 square miles smaller than Connecticut, yet it has about 30+ countries competing in Soccer tournaments over there. And by Soccer I mean the political Soccer, where each group sponsors it's own team to score the goals in that arena.
Same applies to Palestine, the West have their pawns represented in Israel and other groups that are scattered across the Arabian peninsula and North Africa, and the so called `Axis of Evil` has it's own collection of pawns as well. It's a parasitic relationship. Pawns are used to reach ends, and themselves benefit too with money and political support. But when someone benefits, usually someone has to lose and those are your ole betrayed unarmed, unorganized harmless citizens which have to deal with the burdens thrown upon them by their controlled leaders.
Had our government wished it so, the whole conflict would end the day the US cleans it's hands from all of that area. But with oil at steak,and the threat of a rise of a pan-middle eastern force, it's a much safer bet to keep the Arab world distracted with Israel for now. Israel knows that very well and themselves have their own post US-support plans at the ready.
This whole conflict without super powers would end in no time, we keep it alive, we want it so!
Throckmorton
Lifer
- Aug 23, 2007
- 16,830
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So...maybe someone can help me understand the situation since this is how I see it:
Israel was attacked several times. They defeated the attackers and took some of their land. Now the attackers want it back? If you ask me they should have thought about that before attacking - its their own damn fault
Israel was attacked several times. They defeated the attackers and took some of their land. Now the attackers want it back? If you ask me they should have thought about that before attacking - its their own damn fault
more like groups attacked them, they attacked the whole shebang, 24 hour curfewed bordeirng zones, controlled water sources and basically owned the thing all together with extreme military technology before starting to settle in and make them the oppressed. It started with Israel wanted recognition, which they gained quite a while ago but once the beast was loose with arm dealers patting it's back along the way and it's inclusion in the US middle east plan, it kinda went out of control
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
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...
Until Israel stops promoting Jewish immigration and building settlements in conquered territory, their goal cannot be defined as anything but expansion.
Also, while we are on the subject of the Golan, here is a bit from an old article with more quotes from Moshe Dayan:
You are obviously conflused. The quotes from Moshe Dayan I presented above clearly explains the Zionist goal, notably:
Until Israel stops promoting Jewish immigration and building settlements in conquered territory, their goal cannot be defined as anything but expansion.
Also, while we are on the subject of the Golan, here is a bit from an old article with more quotes from Moshe Dayan:
That was expansionism then, and Israel continuing to restrict Palestinians from yet more land and builds more settlements and roads for their own populations in the West Bank is that same goal of expansionism being pursued to this day. And again, that goal can only be pursued as long as the conflict continues, making Israel ideologically opposed to peace.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
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No, I don't need any lesson on the what you quoted, but it would be nice if you could manage to keep up with the conversation. You are selectively quoting from the same Wiki article AndrewR did and I responded to above. Again, Israel openly threatened to invade Syria, and Egypt's massing of forces and restrictions on shipping were undertaken along with diplomatic attempts to prevent that conflict which Israel ignored in favor of bombing Egpyt.
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2004
- 11,491
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The right of return isn't as big a deal as most make it out to be. My grandparents lost their home and farms in 1948 in this village: http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jerusalem/Sar'a/index.html
Now they're no longer farmers and their children are professors, physicians, accountants, and carpenters. Even if the right of return were given to them, I don't doubt they'd shun it for what they have now.
Now they're no longer farmers and their children are professors, physicians, accountants, and carpenters. Even if the right of return were given to them, I don't doubt they'd shun it for what they have now.
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2004
- 11,491
- 2
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Bingo! I love how so many people ignore that. Israel's in a shit situation when it comes to water; the Jordan River is as wide as a dinner table now, I remember in the early 90s it flood so bad that the bridge for the border crossing was nearly submerged. Now Israel's working on desalinization plants. People really forget a lot of the natural resource issues.
Negotiating with a foe means sitting down and talking with him ? not setting up preconditions before even approaching the table. Israel has, for decades, excused its behavior with the fabrication that it?s willing to bargain, but can?t because of the intractable nature of its opponents. The Israeli government knows that its big, stumblebum geopolitical bodyguard will back up any play it makes; there?s no need to negotiate with anyone.
Far from being America?s proxy in the Middle East, Israel uses American money and military power as a surrogate truncheon in the Arab world. Our domestic Israeli lobby would never, ever let our brave little ally ? and their own fetish ? to be pushed around by the United States. Any American politician suggests doing so at the risk of his own career.
Of course, this fairy tale becomes a convenient fiction when Israel hurls an entire country against the wall, as it did with Lebanon in 2006, to salve its frustration at rare battlefield fiascos. Yeah? it?s America?s fault; that whopper plays exclusively in this country, suckers that we are. In truth, we serve, not reap; the United States benefits nothing from its joined-at-the-hip relationship with Israel.
"Average" Israelis want out of this useless impasse because they are the ones who must live, every day, its unnerving, corrosive reality.
Far from being America?s proxy in the Middle East, Israel uses American money and military power as a surrogate truncheon in the Arab world. Our domestic Israeli lobby would never, ever let our brave little ally ? and their own fetish ? to be pushed around by the United States. Any American politician suggests doing so at the risk of his own career.
Of course, this fairy tale becomes a convenient fiction when Israel hurls an entire country against the wall, as it did with Lebanon in 2006, to salve its frustration at rare battlefield fiascos. Yeah? it?s America?s fault; that whopper plays exclusively in this country, suckers that we are. In truth, we serve, not reap; the United States benefits nothing from its joined-at-the-hip relationship with Israel.
"Average" Israelis want out of this useless impasse because they are the ones who must live, every day, its unnerving, corrosive reality.
Why not 1948 borders? That would be ideal but Palestinians want to present a more politically feasible and practical solution which is to concede more land by asking for only the 1967 borders. Nearly every country in the world except for 2 (US/Israel) acknowlege this.
The 1967 borders is the international consensus to solve the issue for a Palestinian state. Every year for decades until today nearly every country in the world votes to adopt a UN resolution to call on Israel to return to 1967 borders. The only countries which oppose are the US, Israel and small countries like Micronesia.. The US and Israel were also the only who voted against against resolutions against South African apartheid until it ended. You should remove your zionist tinted glasses.
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