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So, this atheist is testifying in the Illinois house when this Congresswoman says.....

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yowolabi

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
4,185
2
81
Originally posted by: eits
wtf?

i agree completely with her when she asks why people don't want to fight for guns out of schools and would rather fight for religion out of schools, but the other stuff is nuts and contradictory to the foundation of our country.
Does someone need to fight to keep guns out of schools? This is Chicago, where they've made it almost impossible to even have a gun in your own home.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,574
5
81
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Another point of contention is the divide between atheism and agnosticism. Atheists don't believe God exists; agnostics may have a belief in a spiritual or metaphysical power, but don't believe any religion sufficiently explains this power. I don't believe in God, so I would say I was an atheist. But if God, or some metaphysical deity, came and revealed something that made it patently obvious that God exists, well, I wouldn't continue my disbelief. My friend holds similar views and considers herself agnostic. I think the whole thing is a bit of a crapshoot honestly.
Actually, there's what most people believe agnosticism to be - which is somewhat like what you've described and will probably become the dictionary definition at some point - and what agnosticism actually is: A philosophical position that claims that whether or not God exists is unknowable.

You'll note that that position doesn't preclude a strong belief or disbelief in God. So agnostics can be Catholics. Or atheists.

 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,453
4
81
Originally posted by: 1prophet
There go those Republicans again trying to push religion down everyone's throats.;)

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ilga.gov/house/Rep.asp?GA=94&MemberID=909">Representative Monique D. Davis (D) - 94th General Assembly
27th District</a>
Man you republican's have it sooooooooooooooooooooo bad... everyone picks on you sooooooooooooooooooooooo much...

 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,551
3
0
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Rep. Davis: I don?t know what you have against God, but some of us don?t have much against him. We look forward to him and his blessings. And it?s really a tragedy -- it?s tragic -- when a person who is engaged in anything related to God, they want to fight. They want to fight prayer in school.

I don?t see you (Sherman) fighting guns in school. You know?

I?m trying to understand the philosophy that you want to spread in the state of Illinois. This is the Land of Lincoln. This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God, where people believe in protecting their children.? What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous, it?s dangerous--

Sherman: What?s dangerous, ma?am?

Rep. Davis: It?s dangerous to the progression of this state. And it?s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! Now you will go to court to fight kids to have the opportunity to be quiet for a minute. But damn if you?ll go to [court] to fight for them to keep guns out of their hands. I am fed up! Get out of that seat!

Sherman: Thank you for sharing your perspective with me, and I?m sure that if this matter does go to court---

Rep. Davis: You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.
I agree with Rep Davis on everything but the bolded part in the last paragraph.
Of course you do, birds of a feather you know.
 

Lummex

Senior member
Apr 6, 2008
883
1
76
What a silly lady. One of our smartest presidents and founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, was not religious. He was diest. How is it that the leaders of this country have become more and more stupid and inadequate over 200 years?
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,513
1
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Originally posted by: shira
I basically agree, except that if the state is generally subsidizing the restoration of historic buildings, and a church (or temple, or house of Satan) happens to meet the criteria for the subsidy, then I don't see that as running afoul of the establishment clause.
There should be a criteria disallowing for-profit establishments - and most churches are money making institutions even if they are declared otherwise.
Its a historic site.

It was deemed a landmark by both the National Register and Chicago itself.

Its the place where gospel started.

Of course they are going to fund it. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with preserving american history and culture.
Interesting. I can see how the debate could get so heated then. And the necessity of keeping it all in context, which it doesn't look like Sherman wants to do.

As for the comment about disallowing for-profit establishments... it certainly sounds good, but as long as we're still paying for major league ballparks and handing out corporate subsidies, I don't think that holds water.
Context? Where the hell did the context of guns come into play? She went ape shit on that it seems like, when he was just against prayer in school.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,995
8,369
126
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Wreckem
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Originally posted by: shira
I basically agree, except that if the state is generally subsidizing the restoration of historic buildings, and a church (or temple, or house of Satan) happens to meet the criteria for the subsidy, then I don't see that as running afoul of the establishment clause.
There should be a criteria disallowing for-profit establishments - and most churches are money making institutions even if they are declared otherwise.
Its a historic site.

It was deemed a landmark by both the National Register and Chicago itself.

Its the place where gospel started.

Of course they are going to fund it. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with preserving american history and culture.
Interesting. I can see how the debate could get so heated then. And the necessity of keeping it all in context, which it doesn't look like Sherman wants to do.

As for the comment about disallowing for-profit establishments... it certainly sounds good, but as long as we're still paying for major league ballparks and handing out corporate subsidies, I don't think that holds water.
Context? Where the hell did the context of guns come into play? She went ape shit on that it seems like, when he was just against prayer in school.
Read the thread. Hell, read what you quoted here. I did not and am not supporting Ms. Davis' comments, but Mr. Sherman was against the state paying for the restoration of this historic church.
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Rep. Davis: I don?t know what you have against God, but some of us don?t have much against him. We look forward to him and his blessings. And it?s really a tragedy -- it?s tragic -- when a person who is engaged in anything related to God, they want to fight. They want to fight prayer in school.

I don?t see you (Sherman) fighting guns in school. You know?

I?m trying to understand the philosophy that you want to spread in the state of Illinois. This is the Land of Lincoln. This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God, where people believe in protecting their children.? What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous, it?s dangerous--

Sherman: What?s dangerous, ma?am?

Rep. Davis: It?s dangerous to the progression of this state. And it?s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! Now you will go to court to fight kids to have the opportunity to be quiet for a minute. But damn if you?ll go to [court] to fight for them to keep guns out of their hands. I am fed up! Get out of that seat!

Sherman: Thank you for sharing your perspective with me, and I?m sure that if this matter does go to court---

Rep. Davis: You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.
I agree with Rep Davis on everything but the bolded part in the last paragraph.
Of course you do, birds of a feather you know.
Must...Hold...Back.

I'd make a comment about the same thing pertaining to you, but out of fear of being banned for even bringing it up, I'll just suggest you use your imagination.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,819
3,626
126
Originally posted by: Lummex
What a silly lady. One of our smartest presidents and founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, was not religious. He was diest. How is it that the leaders of this country have become more and more stupid and inadequate over 300 years?
History and math are suffering too.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Lummex
What a silly lady. One of our smartest presidents and founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, was not religious. He was diest. How is it that the leaders of this country have become more and more stupid and inadequate over 300 years?
History and math are suffering too.
ZING
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,995
8,369
126
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Lummex
What a silly lady. One of our smartest presidents and founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, was not religious. He was diest. How is it that the leaders of this country have become more and more stupid and inadequate over 300 years?
History and math are suffering too.
Heh. Don't forget language arts. :p
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
1
0
Shouldn't she be sitting in Gitmo right now.. she obviously hates our freedoms
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,057
62
91
Originally posted by: yowolabi
Originally posted by: eits
wtf?

i agree completely with her when she asks why people don't want to fight for guns out of schools and would rather fight for religion out of schools, but the other stuff is nuts and contradictory to the foundation of our country.
Does someone need to fight to keep guns out of schools? This is Chicago, where they've made it almost impossible to even have a gun in your own home.
For law abiding citizens anways. The criminals have more then enough.
 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
5,471
2
0
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
How did someone like that become a state representative?
Because more people voted for her. That's Chicago.

Illinois, Cook County, and Chicago are all at the hands of the Dems, hence taxes climb, services dwindle, more friends and relatives get hired {etc}

This is the machine that spawned BHO, the lying empty suit from Illinois that is running for president. He owes Tony Rezko, he owes Da Mayor and his mob a few favors as well ... he's in the bag with all of the Chicago, Cook County, Illinois power-slingers.

 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,057
62
91
Originally posted by: ScottMac
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
How did someone like that become a state representative?
Because more people voted for her. That's Chicago.

Illinois, Cook County, and Chicago are all at the hands of the Dems, hence taxes climb, services dwindle, more friends and relatives get hired {etc}

This is the machine that spawned BHO, the lying empty suit from Illinois that is running for president. He owes Tony Rezko, he owes Da Mayor and his mob a few favors as well ... he's in the bag with all of the Chicago, Cook County, Illinois power-slingers.
Yup, hard to believe it unless you've seen it first hand.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Rep. Davis: I don?t know what you have against God, but some of us don?t have much against him. We look forward to him and his blessings. And it?s really a tragedy -- it?s tragic -- when a person who is engaged in anything related to God, they want to fight. They want to fight prayer in school.

I don?t see you (Sherman) fighting guns in school. You know?

I?m trying to understand the philosophy that you want to spread in the state of Illinois. This is the Land of Lincoln. This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God, where people believe in protecting their children.? What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous, it?s dangerous--

Sherman: What?s dangerous, ma?am?

Rep. Davis: It?s dangerous to the progression of this state. And it?s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! Now you will go to court to fight kids to have the opportunity to be quiet for a minute. But damn if you?ll go to [court] to fight for them to keep guns out of their hands. I am fed up! Get out of that seat!

Sherman: Thank you for sharing your perspective with me, and I?m sure that if this matter does go to court---

Rep. Davis: You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.
I agree with Rep Davis on everything but the bolded part in the last paragraph.
Of course you do, birds of a feather you know.
Must...Hold...Back.

I'd make a comment about the same thing pertaining to you, but out of fear of being banned for even bringing it up, I'll just suggest you use your imagination.
Corbett, pretty much everything she said is a lie.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,995
8,369
126
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: ScottMac
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
How did someone like that become a state representative?
Because more people voted for her. That's Chicago.

Illinois, Cook County, and Chicago are all at the hands of the Dems, hence taxes climb, services dwindle, more friends and relatives get hired {etc}

This is the machine that spawned BHO, the lying empty suit from Illinois that is running for president. He owes Tony Rezko, he owes Da Mayor and his mob a few favors as well ... he's in the bag with all of the Chicago, Cook County, Illinois power-slingers.
Yup, hard to believe it unless you've seen it first hand.
Ah... what'll you army rats do when your free ride on the backs of the American taxpayer gets cut off?
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,574
5
81
Originally posted by: thraashman
I love her comment about not seeing him fighting guns in schools.

I'm pretty sure that guns are already not being allowed in schools.
He's also not fighting terrorists in schools, or pedophiles either (when was the last time anyone heard him denounce NAMBLA?). And he's taken absolutely no position on whether large carnivores should be allowed to roam school hallways. And I haven't heard him opposing using school playgrounds as toxic dump sites.

This guy Sherman is a disgrace.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Administrator
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
28
86
So called "Christians" like Rep. Davis are one reason I always root for the Lions. :p
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
11,939
3,171
136
and here i thought that only the republican party stood for righteous christian conservative values as they have been claiming for all these eons. lol
 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
5,471
2
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: ScottMac
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
How did someone like that become a state representative?
Because more people voted for her. That's Chicago.

Illinois, Cook County, and Chicago are all at the hands of the Dems, hence taxes climb, services dwindle, more friends and relatives get hired {etc}

This is the machine that spawned BHO, the lying empty suit from Illinois that is running for president. He owes Tony Rezko, he owes Da Mayor and his mob a few favors as well ... he's in the bag with all of the Chicago, Cook County, Illinois power-slingers.
Yup, hard to believe it unless you've seen it first hand.
Ah... what'll you army rats do when your free ride on the backs of the American taxpayer gets cut off?

I was Navy, a Corpsman, Cp. LeJeune then Portsmouth VA ("Join the Navy and see two Cities on the East Coast" )


 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,079
186
106
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
She should be removed from government immediately, and publicly shamed.
yeah like canned or something... This puts a whole new twist on separation from church and state....

 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Come on now, this type of sh1t shouldn't surprise anyone here in the Chi area...we have a long history of F'd up politics in this region/state, this is no different. If anything it adds to the entertainment value of living here, since there's nothing else to really G'd@mn do but freeze in the winter and sit in traffic the rest of the time.

We need more politicians like this...it keeps things lively... :)

Chuck
 

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