so NYC, and now Chicago have decriminilzed pot possession, this is big.

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Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,184
107
106
yep cali led the way, AZ is the closest MJ state to me right now.. but now i see the major cities decriminalizing... this is good news for all the pot smokers, bad for big pharma..

did you say big pharma.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG8RksCfxcw

That one always gets me :p

But ya, it is good news for us and bad for them.

Decriminalization is the worst of both worlds. The illegality still breeds a black market that results in violent crime and the use of resources to police and prosecute trafficking without any of the additional tax revenue, quality regulation, or other benefits of legalization. We need to pick one.

Quality is fine where it is now, we dont need MORE regulations or taxes. Just let me grow pot and leave me alone, the government doesnt need to regulate everything. Its fine if I grow a tobacco plant for personal use, why not cannabis?
 
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the DRIZZLE

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2007
2,956
1
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did you say big pharma.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG8RksCfxcw

That one always gets me :p

But ya, it is good news for us and bad for them.



Quality is fine where it is now, we dont need MORE regulations or taxes. Just let me grow pot and leave me alone, the government doesnt need to regulate everything. Its fine if I grow a tobacco plant for personal use, why not cannabis?

Because most people buy their pot, and will likely continue to do so it it's decriminalized.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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0
Why don't we just stop acknowledging the Federal Government all together now? I've pretty much started already.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
Pretty sure LA already decriminalized, but feds are pwning MMJ shops left and right, contrary to obama directive.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,435
6,091
126
Not jealous. If I want a liter of cola, I should be able to have one. Can't ban everything just because some people can't be responsible.

Don't really care about pot one way or the other, to be honest. It's stupid that we spend so much money and manpower trying to prevent it's distribution, though, since clearly it doesn't prevent it at all. I don't smoke it, for the record.

Probably you can get two small ones. The idea is not to stop it. That can't be done but you can make a statement and slow it down. It really makes no sense to sell things that make people unhealthy. Not everybody has iron will.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,321
4,440
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Pretty sure LA already decriminalized, but feds are pwning MMJ shops left and right, contrary to obama directive.

I don't think Obama has the authority to tell the feds to ignore a law.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
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don't states like cali and NY pay more to the feds than they get back? if the fed went down that route, what's to stop NY and cali threatening to withhold payments to the fed?

As a US citizen you are required to pay US Federal taxes no matter what state you live in every year. You pay these taxes to the Fed via the IRS not your state tax collection board. In addition states and local governments don't pay federal taxes because they are exempt and they do not collect federal taxes either as that is again the job of the IRS a US federal agency.

So the premise of this argument which declares that states such as California or New York "pay more in Federal taxes then they receive" is deceptively false and misleading because it ignores a couple of facts which are:

A.) States and local governments are exempt from paying taxes on revenue generated via normal governmental functions and procedures required to keep a functioning local and state government operating, i.e. state, local taxes, fees and bonds.

*Of the top of my head I believe section 103 of the IRS code, amendment 1986 is the reference.*

and

B.) Individual citizens/private entities are the ones who pay Federal taxes which they then send to the IRS during tax season.

That money is later redistributed back to the states depending on various mitigating factors such as the financial ability for a state to be in compliance with the mandates, laws, etc issued out by the Federal government.



***TL;DR Version*** - In essence no California and New York will not and can not refuse to "pay taxes" because:

A.) States and local governments do not collect or pay taxes to the Federal government

and

B.) As a US citizen you are required to pay taxes to the Federal government of which some is already deducted from your paycheck if you are employed.
 
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tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
2,617
48
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^ thanks. i'm not american so dont have to pay :p

anyhoo, if push came to shove and the states were being pressured by the fed, what could they do? could cali pass laws that says you pay your taxes to the state instead of the IRS/fed/whatever? technically i suppose fed law supersedes state law but if the enforcers of said laws are employed by the state not the fed - who wins out?
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
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^ thanks. i'm not american so dont have to pay :p

anyhoo, if push came to shove and the states were being pressured by the fed, what could they do? could cali pass laws that says you pay your taxes to the state instead of the IRS/fed/whatever? technically i suppose fed law supersedes state law but if the enforcers of said laws are employed by the state not the fed - who wins out?

California or any state could never pass any law that would subvert Federal laws in regards to forcing individuals or private entities to not pay Federal taxes because doing so would be an act of secession.

In addition when a person or private entity who pays taxes in the US they pay 2 separate entities. One is the local state tax board who collects taxes for the state and local governments, the other is the IRS who collects taxes for the Federal government.

Furthermore IRS employees are all Federal employees and not state employees. State tax board employees are employees of the state and not the Federal government. So your question can not be answered because the way in which tax collection is setup in the US it inherently prevents such a conflict from occurring in the first place.

Also as stated above in my previous point, individuals pay taxes separately to the Federal government and also to their respective States. So the premise of "States not receiving their fair share" is flawed and misleading when you understand and consider the actual facts of how and who individuals or private entities pay taxes too and how that money is divided and spent, i.e. federal taxes go to the federal government and state taxes go to the state.

Thus when the Fed's mandates a law be followed by the states they then divide up federal tax dollars amongst states to ensure that all states are able to enforce such laws by providing additional Federal tax dollar funding to those states who would have trouble meeting the mandate by the Feds.

In addition many states also use Federal tax dollars to further prop up their own increased spending goals which often are similar to Feds, for example improving schools, maintenance of local infrastructure, beefing up local police forces, etc with Federal tax dollars. So being that California is essentially a broke state any attempt to buck the Feds in order to usurp their control on marijuana laws would hurt us more then help us.

This is because our democrat dominated state legislators consistently over spend and rely on insanely optimistic future revenue projections with the state's budget. This ends up with California heavily relying on the Feds to offset a lot of our own spending for the basic functions of state in addition to being able to meet federal mandates.

This occurs because many times state legislators divert state tax dollars from the general fund of the state's budget to prop up non essential spending and/or continue increased state employee benefits which then leaves a huge hole in the budget for basic services that should of been covered by our state taxes but which will end up being partially filled in by Federal tax dollars assigned to the state by the Feds.

TL;DR Version:

Nothing

No

IRS agents are Federal employees, not state employees.
 
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tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
2,617
48
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on the note of secession - wouldn't states like cali/texas and NY be financially better off on their own?
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
17
81
on the note of secession - wouldn't states like cali/texas and NY be financially better off on their own?

short answer, no.

they'd be like mexico. with a much smaller economy.

now if all the states broke up.. different story, or if a large chunk of states broke up and formed there own union... it would be like well.. the union.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,496
2,122
126
quickly budging in:
decriminalisation of possession is bs. "too many crimes for us to actually take care of". still illegal on the books, and "if we ever get ou shit together again, it will get re-criminalised."

when they make it legal to grow pot for sale, that's when i'll be happy.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Decriminalization is the worst of both worlds. The illegality still breeds a black market that results in violent crime and the use of resources to police and prosecute trafficking without any of the additional tax revenue, quality regulation, or other benefits of legalization. We need to pick one.

This, this, this. It needs to just be straight up, across the board, no questions legal for exactly the reasons you listed. Decriminalized means it still has the same size black market because it still comes through the same channels, and the same people doing the same violent crime to stake out their trade routes, and territories.

Quality is fine where it is now, we dont need MORE regulations or taxes. Just let me grow pot and leave me alone, the government doesnt need to regulate everything. Its fine if I grow a tobacco plant for personal use, why not cannabis?

It's not going to happen unless the government can A) get their slice of the cash pie, and B) Attempt to make sure that it's "safe". Just deal with it, and be happy that it's at least moving that direction.