So my Dad's an idiot.

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

I don't know, ask the blacks not voting for Hillary.

Show me the blacks not voting for Hillary because of her race, not because of her behavior as a politician and I'll ask them.

Right, 95% of them just happen to not like her "behavior as a politician" now that she is running against a black guy.
Well, whites can also vote for a white candidate because they don't like Obama's "behavior as a politician" wink wink nod nod

Were you complaining about racism when similar percentages of blacks voted for Bill?

I think that we can at least all be thankful that you have finally revealed the true motive behind your constant anti-Obama trolling wink wink nod nod

Thanks for playing the race card and proving my point.

 

[maziwanka]

why don't you ask your dad why he's a diehard hillary fan.

she is such a terrible candidate it makes no damn sense why ppl support her

 

[Fingolfin269]

How is this any different than voting for a party just because? People do it. They have no idea what the candidate stands for, or the party itself, and yet they blindly vote for that candidate because they voted Democrat 20 years ago.

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

I don't know, ask the blacks not voting for Hillary.

Show me the blacks not voting for Hillary because of her race, not because of her behavior as a politician and I'll ask them.

Right, 95% of them just happen to not like her "behavior as a politician" now that she is running against a black guy.
Well, whites can also vote for a white candidate because they don't like Obama's "behavior as a politician" wink wink nod nod

i always get infuriated at accusations that blacks are voting black and therefore it's racism.

there's a difference between blacks voting for a black president because he is black and whites voting for a white president because he is white. In this country whites enslaved blacks and were treated (and continue to be) as inferior in many many respects.

there is a far greater personal relationship (or kinship) black voters have with obama than white voters have with hillary. as a minority group that has been discriminated against, there are certain core experiences shared by all members of the black community that makes obama far more appealing to black voters because of his race than hillary to white voters because she's white. the same thing happens with jews and the like (young people voting for younger candidates, scientists voting for candidates who have a phd background, etc).

to simply state that because obama has garnered 95% of the black vote that black people are being racist (and then compare it to the fact that the same isn't true for clinton and the white vote) is ridiculous.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

I don't know, ask the blacks not voting for Hillary.

Show me the blacks not voting for Hillary because of her race, not because of her behavior as a politician and I'll ask them.

Right, 95% of them just happen to not like her "behavior as a politician" now that she is running against a black guy.
Well, whites can also vote for a white candidate because they don't like Obama's "behavior as a politician" wink wink nod nod

Were you complaining about racism when similar percentages of blacks voted for Bill?

I think that we can at least all be thankful that you have finally revealed the true motive behind your constant anti-Obama trolling wink wink nod nod

Thanks for playing the race card and proving my point.

If I played it at all, I only played the card you already dealt (and which you even quoted).

You re-hashed this tired troll so many times over, it's not even funny anymore. The only skill you've managed to demonstrate on these forums is an amazing ability at passive-aggressive obtuseness. Someone could go to the effort of proving you wrong, but you'll only ignore all the evidence, and then wait for the next thread to post the same tired shit all over again as though you were never proven wrong.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: maziwanka

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

I don't know, ask the blacks not voting for Hillary.

Show me the blacks not voting for Hillary because of her race, not because of her behavior as a politician and I'll ask them.

Right, 95% of them just happen to not like her "behavior as a politician" now that she is running against a black guy.
Well, whites can also vote for a white candidate because they don't like Obama's "behavior as a politician" wink wink nod nod

i always get infuriated at accusations that blacks are voting black and therefore it's racism.

there's a difference between blacks voting for a black president because he is black and whites voting for a white president because he is white. In this country whites enslaved blacks and were treated (and continue to be) as inferior in many many respects.

there is a far greater personal relationship (or kinship) black voters have with obama than white voters have with hillary. as a minority group that has been discriminated against, there are certain core experiences shared by all members of the black community that makes obama far more appealing to black voters because of his race than hillary to white voters because she's white. the same thing happens with jews and the like (young people voting for younger candidates, scientists voting for candidates who have a phd background, etc).

to simply state that because obama has garnered 95% of the black vote that black people are being racist (and then compare it to the fact that the same isn't true for clinton and the white vote) is ridiculous.

You're wasting your time.
First, no matter how you slice it, it's not racism to vote FOR someone EVER. It is racism when you vote AGAINST someone, but only when you do so SOLELY because of their race. This is obvious, no long-winded 'blacks were enslaved' bit needed.
Second, Obama has not gotten any higher percentage of the black vote than Bill Clinton did in '92 and '96. He was even nicknamed the first black President.
Third, senseamp will ignore all this and continue going from thread to thread copying&pasting his usual anti-Obama rhetoric from now until November.

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: maziwanka

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

I don't know, ask the blacks not voting for Hillary.

Show me the blacks not voting for Hillary because of her race, not because of her behavior as a politician and I'll ask them.

Right, 95% of them just happen to not like her "behavior as a politician" now that she is running against a black guy.
Well, whites can also vote for a white candidate because they don't like Obama's "behavior as a politician" wink wink nod nod

i always get infuriated at accusations that blacks are voting black and therefore it's racism.

there's a difference between blacks voting for a black president because he is black and whites voting for a white president because he is white. In this country whites enslaved blacks and were treated (and continue to be) as inferior in many many respects.

there is a far greater personal relationship (or kinship) black voters have with obama than white voters have with hillary. as a minority group that has been discriminated against, there are certain core experiences shared by all members of the black community that makes obama far more appealing to black voters because of his race than hillary to white voters because she's white. the same thing happens with jews and the like (young people voting for younger candidates, scientists voting for candidates who have a phd background, etc).

to simply state that because obama has garnered 95% of the black vote that black people are being racist (and then compare it to the fact that the same isn't true for clinton and the white vote) is ridiculous.

You're wasting your time.
First, no matter how you slice it, it's not racism to vote FOR someone EVER. It is racism when you vote AGAINST someone, but only when you do so SOLELY because of their race. This is obvious, no long-winded 'blacks were enslaved' bit needed.
Second, Obama has not gotten any higher percentage of the black vote than Bill Clinton did in '92 and '96. He was even nicknamed the first black President.
Third, senseamp will ignore all this and continue going from thread to thread copying&pasting his usual anti-Obama rhetoric from now until November.

haha. the bit about slavery and all was just meant, obviously, to show a very different basis for the black vote. you're definitely right though that racism plays a much bigger role when you vote against a candidate rather than for a candidate.

BUT, you can still claim that blacks are being racist (or at least clinton supporters will) regardless of your "voting-against, voting-for" distinction. the point is that racism critically depends on the social power of those alleged to be racist. when whites control or dominate nearly every aspect of society, it's hard to believe that you can allege a black man of being racist simply by voting for a black candidate, even if he does so because the candidate is black. voting for obama simply empowers the black voter.

the whole fucking problem is the lack of god damn education in this country and joke of a way that american history is taught to students. race oppression of blacks and other minorities by whites is still very much a huge problem.

i will say one good thing about this thread however - i was prompted to talk to my roommate about this issue and another good friend. this post is the result of all our thoughts.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Now that it looks like Hillary got beat, my Dad, who has been a die-hard Dem for decades (I know he voted for Reagen the first time around), just told me he is voting for McCain, because he can't vote for Obama, because he beat Hillary.

So...

Are we really this stupid in this country that we are contradicting our own interests, just because we think this is American Idol, and not our very future at stake?

Your dad is smart.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Now that it looks like Hillary got beat, my Dad, who has been a die-hard Dem for decades (I know he voted for Reagen the first time around), just told me he is voting for McCain, because he can't vote for Obama, because he beat Hillary.

So...

Are we really this stupid in this country that we are contradicting our own interests, just because we think this is American Idol, and not our very future at stake?

I think those who vote Obama, IF he wins, will be very dissapointed.

I can honestly say that i believe that McCain is a better choice.

However, i'm British so i can't vote at all.

So whatever happens,... argh, i know you fuckers, you'll blame England anyway.

I'll only vote for McCain if he vows to invade England for your North Sea oil.

Otherwise, there's no question to (most of) us over here that he is the worst choice of all. Of late, he's proven to be so disconnected from the people that I'm getting flashbacks from Reagan's 2nd term. Nice guy, but whoa don't let him ad-lib.

The 'you'll be disappointed with Obama thing' is getting to be a very very tired straw man used by his detractors. Disappointment can only come from having expectation. I don't have particularly high hopes for Obama. I don't ever have high hopes for any candidate. Our government is far too big for any one person to do much about it. I just have extremely low hopes for the other 2 candidates. And I mean, extremely low. So I suppose I could save myself any disappointment by voting for a candidate I have low or no expectations of, but that would be liking shooting myself in the foot on purpose, don't you think?

1. North Sea oil? How about invading Norway, i men, after all, that's where it's at.

2. I don't think you are using the term "straw man" correctly, which surprises me since its rare that you are logically incorrect, this kinda worries me, have you given up logic for ideals?

3. I have never heard, nor have you, that Obama is going to cut spending, what i have heard is that he is willing to do what Brownie boy does here in England, and increase spending.

I don't think that Obama will do shit, in fact i think he will fold to the congress on every matter, especially when it comes to spending.

These are my reasons for McCain being my "candidate", but as i said, i can't vote in your elections, probably a good thing too, my friend.

Now i know that you are almost as cynical as me, but there are other who are not, like Moonbeam, he actually believes that Obama stands for the "change" he claims to stand for, us regular non mirror staring people get that Obama just says that to win.

If i were you, but i am not, i'd vote for an independent, just to show how i disagree, if everyone who disagrees did that, then independent no1 would be president.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

I don't know, ask the blacks not voting for Hillary.

Show me the blacks not voting for Hillary because of her race, not because of her behavior as a politician and I'll ask them.

Right, 95% of them just happen to not like her "behavior as a politician" now that she is running against a black guy.
Well, whites can also vote for a white candidate because they don't like Obama's "behavior as a politician" wink wink nod nod

Were you complaining about racism when similar percentages of blacks voted for Bill?

I think that we can at least all be thankful that you have finally revealed the true motive behind your constant anti-Obama trolling wink wink nod nod

Thanks for playing the race card and proving my point.

If I played it at all, I only played the card you already dealt (and which you even quoted).

You re-hashed this tired troll so many times over, it's not even funny anymore. The only skill you've managed to demonstrate on these forums is an amazing ability at passive-aggressive obtuseness. Someone could go to the effort of proving you wrong, but you'll only ignore all the evidence, and then wait for the next thread to post the same tired shit all over again as though you were never proven wrong.

That's funny, because that's the opinion I have of you as well. But I don't bother posting it, because it's not about me or you. This is not "Vic & Senseamp" forum, it's "Politics & News"

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Well I jokingly said that I'd vote for Guliani out of spite if Hillary won, so I guess this is fair.

Originally posted by: Aimster
my parents are voting republican because democrats are going to push up the capital gain tax.

Do they actually have anything to lose from a higher capital gains tax or are they just voting that way because talking heads on TV told them so.. in other words, are they just rich, or REALLY rich? Do they keep large a large cache of jewels and cash and gold around the house and if so, where and what hours do they sleep...

this is just.. uh.. marketing research

Problem is to Obama someone making $60k is considered "rich"

Proof?

Obama wants to roll back Bush tax cuts which affects earners all the way down to $30k's.

That's not proof, and that's not what you said.

What his website actually says is:
"Obama is committed to repealing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans." Text

And just in case you don't understand what that means, it means those in the top 33% and 35% brackets, which means taxable income in excess of $160k and above.

edit: and I'll willing to bet whatever you want that McCain will pull a "read my lips" and raise taxes if he gets elected too. Bad news, but the current deficit and debt situation will require tax increase regardless. Either that, or "stagflation" with high interest rates and inflation. No free lunch.

capital gains tax rollback affects almost all earners.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: JS80
capital gains tax rollback affects almost all earners.

Are you kidding? Do you want to explain how it affects some (the rich) much more than others (those with very little saved in investments that they're going to realize gains on, ie. the mass majority of the US)?

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
I know, I'm just lamenting it coming from a pretty intelligent person. He reads all the books, and articles, and keeps up on the news. The most frustrating thing is that he even turns off the TV when the news networks start talking about Brittney, or whoever their spoiled brat of the week happens to be. And yet he falls for it.

Yet you admitted he voted for Reagan...that contradicts much of what you say about him. NO respectable Democrat would have ever voted for Ronnie Rayguns.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

I don't know, ask the blacks not voting for Hillary.

Show me the blacks not voting for Hillary because of her race, not because of her behavior as a politician and I'll ask them.

Right, 95% of them just happen to not like her "behavior as a politician" now that she is running against a black guy.
Well, whites can also vote for a white candidate because they don't like Obama's "behavior as a politician" wink wink nod nod

Were you complaining about racism when similar percentages of blacks voted for Bill?

I think that we can at least all be thankful that you have finally revealed the true motive behind your constant anti-Obama trolling wink wink nod nod

Thanks for playing the race card and proving my point.

If I played it at all, I only played the card you already dealt (and which you even quoted).

You re-hashed this tired troll so many times over, it's not even funny anymore. The only skill you've managed to demonstrate on these forums is an amazing ability at passive-aggressive obtuseness. Someone could go to the effort of proving you wrong, but you'll only ignore all the evidence, and then wait for the next thread to post the same tired shit all over again as though you were never proven wrong.

That's funny, because that's the opinion I have of you as well. But I don't bother posting it, because it's not about me or you. This is not "Vic & Senseamp" forum, it's "Politics & News"

Yeah, but you don't see me in every single
thread about Hillary calling her and her followers names, or suggesting they have less-than-pure motives, now do you?

Nice deflection though.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

I don't know, ask the blacks not voting for Hillary.

Show me the blacks not voting for Hillary because of her race, not because of her behavior as a politician and I'll ask them.

Right, 95% of them just happen to not like her "behavior as a politician" now that she is running against a black guy.
Well, whites can also vote for a white candidate because they don't like Obama's "behavior as a politician" wink wink nod nod

Were you complaining about racism when similar percentages of blacks voted for Bill?

I think that we can at least all be thankful that you have finally revealed the true motive behind your constant anti-Obama trolling wink wink nod nod

Thanks for playing the race card and proving my point.

If I played it at all, I only played the card you already dealt (and which you even quoted).

You re-hashed this tired troll so many times over, it's not even funny anymore. The only skill you've managed to demonstrate on these forums is an amazing ability at passive-aggressive obtuseness. Someone could go to the effort of proving you wrong, but you'll only ignore all the evidence, and then wait for the next thread to post the same tired shit all over again as though you were never proven wrong.

That's funny, because that's the opinion I have of you as well. But I don't bother posting it, because it's not about me or you. This is not "Vic & Senseamp" forum, it's "Politics & News"

Yeah, but you don't see me in every single
thread about Hillary calling her and her followers names, or suggesting they have less-than-pure motives, now do you?

Nice deflection though.

Well, you don't see me in here talking about you, because I don't care about you personally. You are the one who is calling me out in these threads.
Hillary and politics belong in this forum, your lame personal attacks don't.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
1. North Sea oil? How about invading Norway, i men, after all, that's where it's at.

2. I don't think you are using the term "straw man" correctly, which surprises me since its rare that you are logically incorrect, this kinda worries me, have you given up logic for ideals?

3. I have never heard, nor have you, that Obama is going to cut spending, what i have heard is that he is willing to do what Brownie boy does here in England, and increase spending.

I don't think that Obama will do shit, in fact i think he will fold to the congress on every matter, especially when it comes to spending.

These are my reasons for McCain being my "candidate", but as i said, i can't vote in your elections, probably a good thing too, my friend.

Now i know that you are almost as cynical as me, but there are other who are not, like Moonbeam, he actually believes that Obama stands for the "change" he claims to stand for, us regular non mirror staring people get that Obama just says that to win.

If i were you, but i am not, i'd vote for an independent, just to show how i disagree, if everyone who disagrees did that, then independent no1 would be president.

1. You guys got some large off-shore reserves as well. Last I heard, Scotland was trying to make a claim to them.

2. A straw man is any argument, different for the actual argument, made for the purposes of being easily defeated and so give the impression that the actual argument was likewise defeated. And like I said, in order for me to have my hopes dashed with Obama, I'd have to have high expectations to begin with.

3. No one, and I mean no one, can increase spending more and faster than a Republican President. Bush has doubled spending in his 8 years.

And sorry, man, the US is pulling out of the WOT. We simply can't afford it anymore.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Well, you don't see me in here talking about you, because I don't care about you personally. You are the one who is calling me out in these threads.
Hillary and politics belong in this forum, your lame personal attacks don't.

And if I went around spreading lies and FUD about Hillary in every thread I could find, you'd be calling me out too. This isn't rocket science, so don't pretend to play the victim.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Well, you don't see me in here talking about you, because I don't care about you personally. You are the one who is calling me out in these threads.
Hillary and politics belong in this forum, your lame personal attacks don't.

And if I went around spreading lies and FUD about Hillary in every thread I could find, you'd be calling me out too. This isn't rocket science, so don't pretend to play the victim.

I would respond to your opinion, but I would not be calling you out personally because its petty and irrelevant.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: senseamp
Well, you don't see me in here talking about you, because I don't care about you personally. You are the one who is calling me out in these threads.
Hillary and politics belong in this forum, your lame personal attacks don't.

And if I went around spreading lies and FUD about Hillary in every thread I could find, you'd be calling me out too. This isn't rocket science, so don't pretend to play the victim.

I would respond to your opinion, but I would not be calling you out personally because its petty and irrelevant.

When you say blacks are racists because they're voting for Obama in similar numbers that they did for Bill Clinton, and then accuse me of playing the race card for pointing that fact out... and you've been doing this same thing again and again in thread after thread for weeks on end, with several other people besides myself calling you out on this... as far as I'm concerned, I found your picture picture in the dictionary next to both 'petty' and 'irrelevant.'

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Now that it looks like Hillary got beat, my Dad, who has been a die-hard Dem for decades (I know he voted for Reagen the first time around), just told me he is voting for McCain, because he can't vote for Obama, because he beat Hillary.

So...

Are we really this stupid in this country that we are contradicting our own interests, just because we think this is American Idol, and not our very future at stake?

I think those who vote Obama, IF he wins, will be very dissapointed.

I can honestly say that i believe that McCain is a better choice.

However, i'm British so i can't vote at all.

So whatever happens,... argh, i know you fuckers, you'll blame England anyway.

It is Britain's fault, everything they colonize turns to sh..............

 

[StageLeft]

Oh well, your dad is a moron but then most voters are.

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: piasabird
Maybe Hillary should just run as an Independent???

I might even donate a few dollars to see that.

Heh, I'd like to see that too, with the exception that a party would break in two.

Look, she's going to lose, and then she's going to go state to state campaigning for Obama. It's been said on here before, but one more time can't hurt: if your number 1 chioce loses, and you then have the option of voting for someone with 95% similar policies or someone with 10% similar policies, it's really not a hard choice. Voting for someone you disagree with across the board in a fit of pique is biting off your nose to spite your face. Well, that would be true if any individual's vote mattered, but it doesn't really.

49% of the democratic party has had 6 months of their candidate getting completely trashed and slandered by people who claim to be above petty politics and offering a new way while using the old ways to get there and denying it the whole time... it's probably going to take awhile to set aside the battle scars and come back together, but that's what the next 5 months are for.

QFT. I will never vote for Obama because his campaign is basically a cult of personality whose supporters make me dislike Obama more and more. I will write in Clinton because I will not be a party to this potential disaster.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Now that it looks like Hillary got beat, my Dad, who has been a die-hard Dem for decades (I know he voted for Reagen the first time around), just told me he is voting for McCain, because he can't vote for Obama, because he beat Hillary.

So...

Are we really this stupid in this country that we are contradicting our own interests, just because we think this is American Idol, and not our very future at stake?

I am willing to bet that by November the reality of four to eight more years of having the Republicans in the White House will help him change his mind.

 

[Thump553]

Don't ride your Dad or belittle him. There are months to go before the election. Instead, YOU actually do volunteer work for the Obama campaign-and make sure he knows you are doing it. Around Labor Day, start discussing issues with him again. Don't forget to talk about who is virtually surrounded by lobbyists (the GOP just had to ease out the lobbyist McCain picked to head the GOP because they felt his lobbying efforts for the Burmese dictators would look bad), McCain's principal role in the Keating Five scandal, McCain's true incompetence in economic affairs (coupled with his converted adherence to Bush's horrible trickle down policies), etc.

Also, keep in mind what happened with the GOP when it became apparent McCain was the nominee. The Hilter lady was threatening to campaign for Hillary, and Rush, Fox News, etc. weren't far behind-they were almost all in full revolt. Only when they felt the NY Times story about McCain's relationship with that female lobbyist was hitting below the belt did they come around to supporting McCain, now its a virtual love fest.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Thump553
now its a virtual love fest.

No. No, it isn't. See the reaction to McCain's Global Warming speech.