So my Dad's an idiot.

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
I know, I'm just lamenting it coming from a pretty intelligent person. He reads all the books, and articles, and keeps up on the news. The most frustrating thing is that he even turns off the TV when the news networks start talking about Brittney, or whoever their spoiled brat of the week happens to be. And yet he falls for it.

Huge numbers of people are emotionally children. The intellect, via rationalization, is the servant of irrational and even unconscious feelings, justifying them to the more mature self so we don't see what fools we are.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
He may turn out to be correct. We are already hearing it about WV.

If Obama doesn't play the race card, I'll be amazed.

We hear little about the majority of blacks voting for Obama, though.

If the majority of whites vote for Hillary or McCain, it is, or will be, attributed to racism.

You are looking at it wrong. You are being too accusatory. It isn't that Obama would play the race card during his presidency, sure he may talk about it, but what the hell is he gonna do? Wah the UN didn't agree with me cause I'm black? That's absurd. Those in the news of coarse will go on and on and on about it, but I seriously doubt Obama would even bring it up.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

I don't know, ask the blacks not voting for Hillary.

Show me the blacks not voting for Hillary because of her race, not because of her behavior as a politician and I'll ask them.

Right, 95% of them just happen to not like her "behavior as a politician" now that she is running against a black guy.
Well, whites can also vote for a white candidate because they don't like Obama's "behavior as a politician" wink wink nod nod

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Now that it looks like Hillary got beat, my Dad, who has been a die-hard Dem for decades (I know he voted for Reagen the first time around), just told me he is voting for McCain, because he can't vote for Obama, because he beat Hillary.

So...

Are we really this stupid in this country that we are contradicting our own interests, just because we think this is American Idol, and not our very future at stake?

Hey Bush was re-elected, if that's not proof of voter stupidity I don't know what is.

 

[judasmachine]

Race just shouldn't have anything to do with it, but I guess we Americans are all idiots. I guess I'll let my Dad off the hook, as he's just one of 300million idiots out there.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
He may turn out to be correct. We are already hearing it about WV.

If Obama doesn't play the race card, I'll be amazed.

We hear little about the majority of blacks voting for Obama, though.

If the majority of whites vote for Hillary or McCain, it is, or will be, attributed to racism.

How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

In the same light, how is it racism for a black person to vote for the person who most closely reflects their own interests? Isn't that what you're supposed to do in an election, vote for the person who most closely holds your own political views?

It's not, unless you are saying that just because Obama is black that means his views closely reflect those of most black people. It is just as bad for someone to vote for Obama because he's black as it is to vote for McCain because he's white or Hillary because she is a woman.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

I don't know, ask the blacks not voting for Hillary.

Show me the blacks not voting for Hillary because of her race, not because of her behavior as a politician and I'll ask them.


edit: I'll even accept because shes a woman, because that is just as preposterous of an idea..

you know, there I go.. putting ideas in other peoples heads again.. I often forget that what seems obvious to me (that Hillary is a liar and represents everything that is wrong about the way DC politics work right now and that obama's agenda closely resembles Hillar's in every other way, therefore making him the logically preferable choice) might not be as obvious to others..


or maybe it is just racist for black people to vote for black people... Whites vote for whites all the time in every other election, but thats not racist.. its just racist when black people vote for the black guy this time.


Either way, I'll concede that my point cant be proven right because theres no way to know if every black voter is as informed as I (infact, the opposite is likely true.. for all voters, black, white and whatever)

 

[senseamp]

Saying Obama's agenda closely resembles Hillary's is like saying that crap closely resembles peanut butter. Obama has no agenda, he just threw a bunch of talking points and pasted them on his website. If he had an agenda he'd be talking in specifics, not platitudes.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
He may turn out to be correct. We are already hearing it about WV.

If Obama doesn't play the race card, I'll be amazed.

We hear little about the majority of blacks voting for Obama, though.

If the majority of whites vote for Hillary or McCain, it is, or will be, attributed to racism.

How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

In the same light, how is it racism for a black person to vote for the person who most closely reflects their own interests? Isn't that what you're supposed to do in an election, vote for the person who most closely holds your own political views?

It's not, unless you are saying that just because Obama is black that means his views closely reflect those of most black people. It is just as bad for someone to vote for Obama because he's black as it is to vote for McCain because he's white or Hillary because she is a woman.

I'm not saying it's because he is black, but because of what he says. I really believe that people listen to him because they hear in his speeches ideas that ring true to them.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: piasabird
Maybe Hillary should just run as an Independent???

I might even donate a few dollars to see that.

Heh, I'd like to see that too, with the exception that a party would break in two.

Look, she's going to lose, and then she's going to go state to state campaigning for Obama. It's been said on here before, but one more time can't hurt: if your number 1 chioce loses, and you then have the option of voting for someone with 95% similar policies or someone with 10% similar policies, it's really not a hard choice. Voting for someone you disagree with across the board in a fit of pique is biting off your nose to spite your face. Well, that would be true if any individual's vote mattered, but it doesn't really.

49% of the democratic party has had 6 months of their candidate getting completely trashed and slandered by people who claim to be above petty politics and offering a new way while using the old ways to get there and denying it the whole time... it's probably going to take awhile to set aside the battle scars and come back together, but that's what the next 5 months are for.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
How is it not racism when someone out and out says "I wont vote for candidate X because of his/her race"??

I don't know, ask the blacks not voting for Hillary.

Show me the blacks not voting for Hillary because of her race, not because of her behavior as a politician and I'll ask them.

Right, 95% of them just happen to not like her "behavior as a politician" now that she is running against a black guy.
Well, whites can also vote for a white candidate because they don't like Obama's "behavior as a politician" wink wink nod nod

Were you complaining about racism when similar percentages of blacks voted for Bill?

I think that we can at least all be thankful that you have finally revealed the true motive behind your constant anti-Obama trolling wink wink nod nod

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: piasabird
Maybe Hillary should just run as an Independent???

I might even donate a few dollars to see that.

Heh, I'd like to see that too, with the exception that a party would break in two.

Look, she's going to lose, and then she's going to go state to state campaigning for Obama. It's been said on here before, but one more time can't hurt: if your number 1 chioce loses, and you then have the option of voting for someone with 95% similar policies or someone with 10% similar policies, it's really not a hard choice. Voting for someone you disagree with across the board in a fit of pique is biting off your nose to spite your face. Well, that would be true if any individual's vote mattered, but it doesn't really.

49% of the democratic party has had 6 months of their candidate getting completely trashed and slandered by people who claim to be above petty politics and offering a new way while using the old ways to get there and denying it the whole time... it's probably going to take awhile to set aside the battle scars and come back together, but that's what the next 5 months are for.

Yaknow, I only visit a couple other forums besides this one, but if you're trying to imply here that the Hillary supporters have not be trashing and slandering Obama for the past 6 months, that would be completely wrong. Especially here, where a few of the Hillary supporters have become full-blown trolls in their zeal.

But seriously, the party is going to patch it up, most of the voters aren't so emotional over the issue, and Hillary is going to get the VP nod anyway.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Saying Obama's agenda closely resembles Hillary's is like saying that crap closely resembles peanut butter. Obama has no agenda, he just threw a bunch of talking points and pasted them on his website. If he had an agenda he'd be talking in specifics, not platitudes.

excellent point. this pretty much sums it up. but of course, team obama will say that his lack of experience/agenda is another taboo that we shouldn't be discussing - we should focus on the "issues that matter"

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Look, she's going to lose, and then she's going to go state to state campaigning for Obama. It's been said on here before, but one more time can't hurt: if your number 1 chioce loses, and you then have the option of voting for someone with 95% similar policies or someone with 10% similar policies, it's really not a hard choice. Voting for someone you disagree with across the board in a fit of pique is biting off your nose to spite your face. Well, that would be true if any individual's vote mattered, but it doesn't really.

49% of the democratic party has had 6 months of their candidate getting completely trashed and slandered by people who claim to be above petty politics and offering a new way while using the old ways to get there and denying it the whole time... it's probably going to take awhile to set aside the battle scars and come back together, but that's what the next 5 months are for.

Yaknow, I only visit a couple other forums besides this one, but if you're trying to imply here that the Hillary supporters have not be trashing and slandering Obama for the past 6 months, that would be completely wrong. Especially here, where a few of the Hillary supporters have become full-blown trolls in their zeal.

But seriously, the party is going to patch it up, most of the voters aren't so emotional over the issue, and Hillary is going to get the VP nod anyway.

both sides do it, it just bothers me that the Obama camp pretends otherwise.

politics are politics... there have really only been a handful of incidents during the entire primary season that I'd consider really out of bounds (Clintonistas saying that McCain would be a better president, Obamites framing Bill as a racist, etc), it just seems hypocritical to run as someone who's above politics while all of your surrogates employ the same tactics that have been employed since the beginning of politics itself while looking the other way.

for all her attacks, Hillary has never denied being a fighter who's willing to do whatever it takes.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Now that it looks like Hillary got beat, my Dad, who has been a die-hard Dem for decades (I know he voted for Reagen the first time around), just told me he is voting for McCain, because he can't vote for Obama, because he beat Hillary.

So...

Are we really this stupid in this country that we are contradicting our own interests, just because we think this is American Idol, and not our very future at stake?

I think those who vote Obama, IF he wins, will be very dissapointed.

I can honestly say that i believe that McCain is a better choice.

However, i'm British so i can't vote at all.

So whatever happens,... argh, i know you fuckers, you'll blame England anyway.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Are we really this stupid in this country that we are contradicting our own interests, just because we think this is American Idol, and not our very future at stake?

Yes.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Saying Obama's agenda closely resembles Hillary's is like saying that crap closely resembles peanut butter. Obama has no agenda, he just threw a bunch of talking points and pasted them on his website. If he had an agenda he'd be talking in specifics, not platitudes.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: senseamp
Saying Obama's agenda closely resembles Hillary's is like saying that crap closely resembles peanut butter. Obama has no agenda, he just threw a bunch of talking points and pasted them on his website. If he had an agenda he'd be talking in specifics, not platitudes.

excellent point. this pretty much sums it up. but of course, team obama will say that his lack of experience/agenda is another taboo that we shouldn't be discussing - we should focus on the "issues that matter"

If I ever wrote a book about how to win arguments on the internet, the very first rule would be to lie so blatantly and yet so open and candidly as to make no one even want to bother replying, much less get involved in an argument with someone capable of such obvious self-delusion.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
I think those who vote Obama, IF he wins, will be very dissapointed.

Totally agree, though the Democratic controlled congress might pass a few bills that hit home with their base.

I can honestly say that i believe that McCain is a better choice.

I'm in Alabama and I say McCain is the worst choice.

So whatever happens,... argh, i know you fuckers, you'll blame England anyway.

Sorry mate, can't find that little country to place blame on. That one next to Greenland?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Well I jokingly said that I'd vote for Guliani out of spite if Hillary won, so I guess this is fair.

Originally posted by: Aimster
my parents are voting republican because democrats are going to push up the capital gain tax.

Do they actually have anything to lose from a higher capital gains tax or are they just voting that way because talking heads on TV told them so.. in other words, are they just rich, or REALLY rich? Do they keep large a large cache of jewels and cash and gold around the house and if so, where and what hours do they sleep...

this is just.. uh.. marketing research

Problem is to Obama someone making $60k is considered "rich"

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Well I jokingly said that I'd vote for Guliani out of spite if Hillary won, so I guess this is fair.

Originally posted by: Aimster
my parents are voting republican because democrats are going to push up the capital gain tax.

Do they actually have anything to lose from a higher capital gains tax or are they just voting that way because talking heads on TV told them so.. in other words, are they just rich, or REALLY rich? Do they keep large a large cache of jewels and cash and gold around the house and if so, where and what hours do they sleep...

this is just.. uh.. marketing research

Problem is to Obama someone making $60k is considered "rich"

Proof?

 

[jpeyton]

Is it really a surprise that politicians, who have been greasing the cogs of our crooked government for decades, are afraid of Obama winning the election?

You're going to see a lot of attacks leveled at Obama targeting nearly every class of voter. There are gaping holes in the logic of such attacks, but that hasn't stopped them in previous elections.

Let's see how smart the American people really are. After two terms of Bush, are they really going to vote for a third?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Now that it looks like Hillary got beat, my Dad, who has been a die-hard Dem for decades (I know he voted for Reagen the first time around), just told me he is voting for McCain, because he can't vote for Obama, because he beat Hillary.

So...

Are we really this stupid in this country that we are contradicting our own interests, just because we think this is American Idol, and not our very future at stake?

I think those who vote Obama, IF he wins, will be very dissapointed.

I can honestly say that i believe that McCain is a better choice.

However, i'm British so i can't vote at all.

So whatever happens,... argh, i know you fuckers, you'll blame England anyway.

I'll only vote for McCain if he vows to invade England for your North Sea oil.

Otherwise, there's no question to (most of) us over here that he is the worst choice of all. Of late, he's proven to be so disconnected from the people that I'm getting flashbacks from Reagan's 2nd term. Nice guy, but whoa don't let him ad-lib.

The 'you'll be disappointed with Obama thing' is getting to be a very very tired straw man used by his detractors. Disappointment can only come from having expectation. I don't have particularly high hopes for Obama. I don't ever have high hopes for any candidate. Our government is far too big for any one person to do much about it. I just have extremely low hopes for the other 2 candidates. And I mean, extremely low. So I suppose I could save myself any disappointment by voting for a candidate I have low or no expectations of, but that would be liking shooting myself in the foot on purpose, don't you think?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Well I jokingly said that I'd vote for Guliani out of spite if Hillary won, so I guess this is fair.

Originally posted by: Aimster
my parents are voting republican because democrats are going to push up the capital gain tax.

Do they actually have anything to lose from a higher capital gains tax or are they just voting that way because talking heads on TV told them so.. in other words, are they just rich, or REALLY rich? Do they keep large a large cache of jewels and cash and gold around the house and if so, where and what hours do they sleep...

this is just.. uh.. marketing research

Problem is to Obama someone making $60k is considered "rich"

Proof?

Obama wants to roll back Bush tax cuts which affects earners all the way down to $30k's.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Well I jokingly said that I'd vote for Guliani out of spite if Hillary won, so I guess this is fair.

Originally posted by: Aimster
my parents are voting republican because democrats are going to push up the capital gain tax.

Do they actually have anything to lose from a higher capital gains tax or are they just voting that way because talking heads on TV told them so.. in other words, are they just rich, or REALLY rich? Do they keep large a large cache of jewels and cash and gold around the house and if so, where and what hours do they sleep...

this is just.. uh.. marketing research

Problem is to Obama someone making $60k is considered "rich"

Proof?

Obama wants to roll back Bush tax cuts which affects earners all the way down to $30k's.

That's not proof, and that's not what you said.

What his website actually says is:
"Obama is committed to repealing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans." Text

And just in case you don't understand what that means, it means those in the top 33% and 35% brackets, which means taxable income in excess of $160k and above.

edit: and I'll willing to bet whatever you want that McCain will pull a "read my lips" and raise taxes if he gets elected too. Bad news, but the current deficit and debt situation will require tax increase regardless. Either that, or "stagflation" with high interest rates and inflation. No free lunch.