So much for world hunger!

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
verweight 'top world's hungry'
Overweight person being measured
The number of people overweight has topped £1bn across the world
There are now more overweight people across the world than hungry ones, according to experts.

US professor Barry Popkin said all countries - both rich and poor - had failed to address the obesity boom.

He told the International Association of Agricultural Economists the number of overweight people had topped 1bn, compared with 800m undernourished.

Speaking at an Australian conference, he said changing diets and people doing less physical exercise was the cause.

Professor Popkin, from the University of North Carolina, said that the change had happened quickly as obesity was rapidly spreading, while hunger was slowly declining among the world's 6.5bn population.


The biggest increases are being seen in parts of Asia with certain populations more susceptible than others
Professor Tony Barnett, of Birmingham University

He told the conference at the Gold Coast convention centre near Brisbane: "Obesity is the norm globally and under nutrition, while still important in a few countries and in targeted populations in many others, is no longer the dominant disease."

He said the "burden of obesity", with its related illnesses, was also shifting from the rich to the poor, not only in urban but in rural areas around the world.

China typified the changes, with a major shift in diet from cereals to animal products and vegetable oils accompanied by a decline in physical work, more motorised transport and more television viewing, he added.

And he urged governments to begin to develop better strategies to combat the problem.

He said food prices could be used to manipulate people's diets and tilt them towards healthier options.

"For instance, if we charge money for every calorie of soft drink and fruit drink that was consumed, people would consume less of it. "If we subsidise fruit and vegetable production, people would consume more of it and we would have a healthier diet."

And University of Minnesota's Professor Benjamin Senauer, who has compared lifestyles in the US, which has high obesity rates with Japan, which has low rates, agreed.

"The average Japanese household spends almost a quarter of its income on food compared to under 14% in the US."

'Cheap food'

While a direct tax on food in the US to reduce obesity would not be politically acceptable, agricultural subsidies which resulted in cheap food could be reduced, he added.

But he said other factors, such as exercise, also played an important role.

"Japanese cities are based on efficient public transport and walking. The average American commutes to work, drives to the supermarket and does as little walking as possible."

Professor Tony Barnett, head of the diabetes and obesity group at Birmingham University, said: "It is becoming increasingly clear that the number of overweight outnumbers the malnourished.

"What is also clear is that this is not just happening in developed countries, the developing world also has serious problems.

"The biggest increases are being seen in parts of Asia with certain populations more susceptible than others. If we do not get to grips with this, problems associated with obesity, such as diabetes and cardiovascular disease, are going to increase rapidly."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4793455.stm


Wow, this is kind of sad. I don't really have a comment for this, it is just one of those "hmmm" things I came across.

I would take his idea a step further though and just raise the price of sugar and oils astronomically (the cooking oil ;) ) and refinned breads and go from there.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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It's possible to be overweight and malnourished.

It's common - many of the cheapest foods are 'junk nutrition'. It's why you often see overweight poor people.

Eating a well balanced diet requires access to better food selection, and is more expensive, not to mention the nutrional knowledge.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Originally posted by: Craig234
It's possible to be overweight and malnourished.

It's common - many of the cheapest foods are 'junk nutrition'. It's why you often see overweight poor people.

Eating a well balanced diet requires access to better food selection, and is more expensive, not to mention the nutrional knowledge.

It's called living in New Jersey.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,102
9,218
136
Being seemingly incapable of gaining weight, I don?t feel for the obese.

However, because those with food are fat, does not mean we shouldn?t care about those who lack food. It?s not even like the world itself cannot produce, on the contrary, we have to stop farmers from making too much food.

The problem would be inherent in their home countries and their distribution of food/jobs/etc. A broken system cannot get people food no matter how much the world has of it, which is apparently a lot if obesity is any indication.
 

BlancoNino

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2005
5,695
0
0
Yes, the poor countries will never see enough food unless their government's change. The United States could cut calorie consumption in half, and it would make no difference (except we'd be skinnier).
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Yes, the poor countries will never see enough food unless their government's change. The United States could cut calorie consumption in half, and it would make no difference (except we'd be skinnier).

You miss the point - the poverty is broadly caused by US and other wealthy nations' policies which keep the poor poor, such as therough the World Bank and IMF.

Try a book like 'Confessions of an Economic Hit Man' for an eye opener.

But from your flat tax sig, you need to read up for the bigger picture.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
It's possible to be overweight and malnourished.

It's common - many of the cheapest foods are 'junk nutrition'. It's why you often see overweight poor people.

Eating a well balanced diet requires access to better food selection, and is more expensive, not to mention the nutrional knowledge.

I agree, but healthy food isn't that expensive. Unless you're comparing it to dollar menus and mac and cheese. Rice, bulk meat, and a variety of reasonable produce items are very inexpensive.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
Originally posted by: Legend

I agree, but healthy food isn't that expensive. Unless you're comparing it to dollar menus and mac and cheese. Rice, bulk meat, and a variety of reasonable produce items are very inexpensive.

Even comparing it to dollar menus, healthy food is cheaper. One dollar could get me, a head of lettuce, 2 lbs of potatoes, 1 lb of tomatoes, 6 ears of corn, or a 1/2 lb of strawberries. Any of those is better and cheaper than anything off a fast food dollar menu.

Go to the hot deals section and look for the 11 cents a loaf homemade bread thread. Healthy food is cheap if you make it yourself.

 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Legend

I agree, but healthy food isn't that expensive. Unless you're comparing it to dollar menus and mac and cheese. Rice, bulk meat, and a variety of reasonable produce items are very inexpensive.

Even comparing it to dollar menus, healthy food is cheaper. One dollar could get me, a head of lettuce, 2 lbs of potatoes, 1 lb of tomatoes, 6 ears of corn, or a 1/2 lb of strawberries. Any of those is better and cheaper than anything off a fast food dollar menu.

Go to the hot deals section and look for the 11 cents a loaf homemade bread thread. Healthy food is cheap if you make it yourself.


A lot of things become cheap when you value your time at $0.00 / hr.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Legend

I agree, but healthy food isn't that expensive. Unless you're comparing it to dollar menus and mac and cheese. Rice, bulk meat, and a variety of reasonable produce items are very inexpensive.

Even comparing it to dollar menus, healthy food is cheaper. One dollar could get me, a head of lettuce, 2 lbs of potatoes, 1 lb of tomatoes, 6 ears of corn, or a 1/2 lb of strawberries. Any of those is better and cheaper than anything off a fast food dollar menu.

Go to the hot deals section and look for the 11 cents a loaf homemade bread thread. Healthy food is cheap if you make it yourself.

Wow, where do you live? In middle TN, even a farmers market isn't close to being that cheap.

The strawberries alone would be like 1.50 in season, 3.00 out of season.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It's from hormone analogues in plastic.

*Psssst, Moonbeam*

You're supposed to open the package and remove the food BEFORE you eat it. ;)
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Legend
Originally posted by: Craig234
It's possible to be overweight and malnourished.

It's common - many of the cheapest foods are 'junk nutrition'. It's why you often see overweight poor people.

Eating a well balanced diet requires access to better food selection, and is more expensive, not to mention the nutrional knowledge.

I agree, but healthy food isn't that expensive. Unless you're comparing it to dollar menus and mac and cheese. Rice, bulk meat, and a variety of reasonable produce items are very inexpensive.

Poor neigborhoods typically have a dearth of shopping - it's often filled with liquor stores with Frito Lay, and McDonalds, with the markets charging much higher prices.

In addition, just nutrition education is an issue. THey can buy bad calories a lot cheaper than good calories.

I bought small containers of blueberries and blackberries tonight - $3 and $4 for 6 or 8 ounces.

My main point was in responding to the incorrect argument that overweight people prove that food issues have been solved.

These people are dying young because of the bad nutrition. Huge amounts of the world lack clean water, made worse by profit-grabbing companies buying all water supplies.

Check out the story on Bolivia, where Bechtel - republican stronghold - set up a front company to secretly pay off the government in Bolivia to buy water rights, and then jacked up the price of water hundreds of percent to the very poor peasents, who could not buy water any more. It was even illegal for them to collect rainwater to drink, reportedly. There are many issues to solve.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I'm sorry, was that supposed to be a rant against capitalism? Sounds to me like government colluding with business, which to me is more of a government problem than a business one.
 

fitzov

Platinum Member
Jan 3, 2004
2,477
0
0
Originally posted by: ebaycj
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Legend

I agree, but healthy food isn't that expensive. Unless you're comparing it to dollar menus and mac and cheese. Rice, bulk meat, and a variety of reasonable produce items are very inexpensive.

Even comparing it to dollar menus, healthy food is cheaper. One dollar could get me, a head of lettuce, 2 lbs of potatoes, 1 lb of tomatoes, 6 ears of corn, or a 1/2 lb of strawberries. Any of those is better and cheaper than anything off a fast food dollar menu.

Go to the hot deals section and look for the 11 cents a loaf homemade bread thread. Healthy food is cheap if you make it yourself.


A lot of things become cheap when you value your time at $0.00 / hr.

A lot of things become meaningless when you think time = money.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
"I'm sorry, was that supposed to be a rant against capitalism? Sounds to me like government colluding with business, which to me is more of a government problem than a business one."

No, it was not a rant against capitalism, which is a crucial part of a strong economy.

That's the problem with how some folks look at issues like this, they are too black and white.

If you are against the police using dangerous choke holds and criticize an incident where they kill a couple people with them, does that make you anti-police? Of course not.

Criticizing specific parts of a system which happens to include capitalism is not a rant against capitalism. Even arguing that capitalism has inherent flaws is not anti-capitalism.

Claiming that specific types of more regulation of capitalism is better is not anti-capitalism. For example, on its own, capitalism inevitably leads to monopoly, and to tyranny.

And it's not 'more of a governmental problem'. It's a problem with the distribution of power, where the people have too little, and the private and public sectors split their excessiv share in an orgy of corruption. When a spouse hires a hitman to kill their spouse, is that a problem with the spouse or the hitman? Both. When corporations act to pay off governments to collude with them to screw the public, similarly, it's a problem with both.

And the corruption is seen when you see a government like the US or others use the language of liberty and freedom to condemn or praise other governments in efforts solely aimed at greed, rather than legitimate issues, such as when you see the Contra terrorists in Nicaragua called "the moral equivalent of our founding fathers" by Reagan; when you see the US support Israel in its excesses in exchange for Israel doing things like being our middleman in selling illegal missiles to Iran. It corrupts.

So, no, my post was not a rant on capitalism. It was a specific crititcal observation on an issue. Capitalism plays an important role in solving the problem, IMO.

But capitalism with the guiding hand of democracy.

Isn't is funny how rhetoric works today on this issue - "democracy" is a good work, but the government acts which are the direct result that give any meaning to the people having the power of the vote is called 'government' and 'regulation' and seen by many as 'bad words'. It's pretty nonsensical.
 

eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Legend

I agree, but healthy food isn't that expensive. Unless you're comparing it to dollar menus and mac and cheese. Rice, bulk meat, and a variety of reasonable produce items are very inexpensive.

Even comparing it to dollar menus, healthy food is cheaper. One dollar could get me, a head of lettuce, 2 lbs of potatoes, 1 lb of tomatoes, 6 ears of corn, or a 1/2 lb of strawberries. Any of those is better and cheaper than anything off a fast food dollar menu.

Go to the hot deals section and look for the 11 cents a loaf homemade bread thread. Healthy food is cheap if you make it yourself.

I agree. Its just that most people don't like to eat healthy.. also, eating healthy does require a little bit of work... for instance, going to the supermarket and buying food verses driving up to mcdonalds.

Its analogous to watching tv or going out for a nice walk... most people would rather watch tv.... while at the same time blame "other people" for their problems.. e.g., couldn't afford the expensive shoes that Nike makes, etc...
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I disagree. First, the scope of this thread is global, where billions lack any affordable access to the foods mentioned.

Second, even in the US, the empty, unhealthy calories are often a more attractive value compared to what's actually available to them in healthy foods.

And, as I noted education on nutrition is an issue - the marketing of the bad foods plays an important role as well.

Don't just blame the victim. Problems are not solved or reduced that way. The chatterers who do that will just chatter away while the problems get worse.

What should we do? I'd say some combination of efforts to make helthier foods more affordably available, provide nutritional education, and incent fast food chains to provide healthier foods and to market them better are all possible steps. Some sort of tax which balances the affordibility of the junk foods might help too.
 

imported_inspire

Senior member
Jun 29, 2006
986
0
0
Being as I work in the field and this is a potential thesis topic for me, I'm going to tackle it break my self-promise to not post in P&N. Hold on to your hats.

Overweight 'top world's hungry'
Overweight person being measured
The number of people overweight has topped £1bn across the world
There are now more overweight people across the world than hungry ones, according to experts.

US professor Barry Popkin said all countries - both rich and poor - had failed to address the obesity boom.

US professor Barry Popkin has a PhD in Agricultural Economics. Perhaps he forgot the fact that there are currently definitions within the Healthcare Community that explicitly distinguish 'overweight' from 'obese'. Using the terms interchangeably is a fallacy because they are universally recognized as different.

He told the International Association of Agricultural Economists the number of overweight people had topped 1bn, compared with 800m undernourished.

Speaking at an Australian conference, he said changing diets and people doing less physical exercise was the cause.

Professor Popkin, from the University of North Carolina, said that the change had happened quickly as obesity was rapidly spreading, while hunger was slowly declining among the world's 6.5bn population.


The biggest increases are being seen in parts of Asia with certain populations more susceptible than others
Professor Tony Barnett, of Birmingham University

He told the conference at the Gold Coast convention centre near Brisbane: "Obesity is the norm globally and under nutrition, while still important in a few countries and in targeted populations in many others, is no longer the dominant disease."

Again, equivocation. overweight != obese

He said the "burden of obesity", with its related illnesses, was also shifting from the rich to the poor, not only in urban but in rural areas around the world.

And this is where I cry foul. Yes, being obese has been shown historically in epidemiological studies to increase the rate of morbidity and mortality. Same case with being overweight, but to a lesser extent. However, when this phenomenon is studied, researchers always stick hard and fast to their arbitrarily, but rigidly defined definitions. Overweight is generally defined as having a BMI between 25 and 30 and obese is generally defined as having a BMI between 30 and 35. Next comes morbidly obese, which is anything over 35.

Now, to understand my arguement, you need to know how BMI is calculated - BMI is a continuous measure that is calculated by (weight / (height ^2)) - where weight is measured in kilograms and height is measured in meters. The problems comes in when analyses are done based upon such broad categories. Performing a categorical analysis with such a lack of precision on a continuous variable makes as much sense as measuring with a microscope, drawing a cut line with a Sharpie, and cutting with a chainsaw.

Now, within the last year or so, [somebody who's name i don't have handy at work right now...] performed a semi-parametric anaylsis of BMI vs. morbidity and mortality. His BMI categories weren't measured as five unit categories, but as 0.1 unit categories. He found that people who were mildly 'overweight' actually had a lower rate of morbidity and mortality on the whole, than those who were at a 'normal' BMI. [Again, wish I had this handy, because I could shoe the graph, the sample size, the methods, etc.] He also found a non-significant difference between the risk factors of 'overweight' and 'normal' folks' rate of morbidity and mortality. Now, he did find that being 'obese' still has a higher risk factor for morbidity and mortality than being 'normal' weight.

This is just a very long way of reiterating that there is a big difference between being overweight and being obese - particularly in the context of morbity and mortality.

China typified the changes, with a major shift in diet from cereals to animal products and vegetable oils accompanied by a decline in physical work, more motorised transport and more television viewing, he added.

And he urged governments to begin to develop better strategies to combat the problem.

He said food prices could be used to manipulate people's diets and tilt them towards healthier options.

"For instance, if we charge money for every calorie of soft drink and fruit drink that was consumed, people would consume less of it. "If we subsidise fruit and vegetable production, people would consume more of it and we would have a healthier diet."

And University of Minnesota's Professor Benjamin Senauer, who has compared lifestyles in the US, which has high obesity rates with Japan, which has low rates, agreed.

"The average Japanese household spends almost a quarter of its income on food compared to under 14% in the US."

'Cheap food'

While a direct tax on food in the US to reduce obesity would not be politically acceptable, agricultural subsidies which resulted in cheap food could be reduced, he added.

I agree here - most of your sugars in today's manufactured foods come from corn syrup and government subsidies to corn farmers keep the prices low.

But he said other factors, such as exercise, also played an important role.

"Japanese cities are based on efficient public transport and walking. The average American commutes to work, drives to the supermarket and does as little walking as possible."

Professor Tony Barnett, head of the diabetes and obesity group at Birmingham University, said: "It is becoming increasingly clear that the number of overweight outnumbers the malnourished.

Again, we're talking about changing public policy on the national scale across the globe - it'd be nice if we could stop equivocating terms.

"What is also clear is that this is not just happening in developed countries, the developing world also has serious problems.

"The biggest increases are being seen in parts of Asia with certain populations more susceptible than others. If we do not get to grips with this, problems associated with obesity, such as diabetes and cardiovascular disease, are going to increase rapidly."

I agree. I have no problem with what this article is trying to say. It's just that the bait and switch tactic of citing the number of overweight people in the world and then talking about the dangers of obesity sensationalizes this article and equivocates two different things. Like saying 'The number of people who Drink is at an all-time high' followed by 'Drunk Driving kills X people each year' - one can lead to the next, but the first isn't necessarily bad if it can be controlled. Arguably, being overweight can lead into being obese and I don't deny that. However, I contend that being overweight, by the definition of the word, is not as 'bad for you' as everyone wants us to believe.

And that's all the $0.02 I've kept to myself for the past 2 months here at AT. I'm not trying to start your everyday flamewars, and I don't particularly care to argue. I'm not saying that the article is trash, and I appreciate the fact that the OP posted it. I also haven't made any policy-recommendations (I steer clear of those when I can...) besides noting that gov't subsidies lower prices on junk food. Is this a problem? Depends on how you look at it - from a social justice perspective, yes - from a healthcare perspective, not immediately. Should preventative policies be put in place? Depends on what they are - and I'm not going there... :D

I just couldn't bite my tongue here. Have a nice Day! :beer:
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Craig

I was just curious as you very careful to include the fact that the ills of the world are to be blamed on profit grabbing companies and republicans. If a company is not profit grabbing, what else is it? That's the point of a company in a capitalist system. As far as blaming republicans, who's being black and white now?
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Looks like McDonalds, Coke and Pepsi are doing a good job!

first post of yours I have ever agreed with.
I now believe in world peace also;)