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So Much for MT's Car of Year (T-Bird) ...

M

Midnight Rambler

Diamond Member
One of my major gripes is when people base their opinions solely on the view/opinion/words of others, and nowhere is this more evident than the con jobs that auto mags pull on their readers ... most of these 'rags are just subsidized propaganda machines for whichever car companies pay them (via ad space purchases) the most to write good things about their product(s).

No better an example of this can be found than that of Motor Trend's 2002 "Car of the Year", the Ford Thunderbird.

How can any car be "Car of the Year" when quality and assembly problems plague it so badly that production has been halted on three previous occasions for major problems, and is now again suspended until these problems can be fixed all over again (ie., the initial fixes didn't work).

Through Sept., only a few more than 2200 had been built, incl. only 808 for the entire month of Sept. after several fixes had been implemented. And out of the some 2200 total units built to date, only 563 were "deliverable".

Then again, maybe MT doesn't think something like a recurring problem with overheating V-8's is of any consequence ... ?

 
It's all a sham...case in point:

Concerning the GMC Envoy's win of the TOTY....the ONLY spectacular thing about the Envoy is it's inline-6. Other than that, it is WAY behind the curve. I also find it fuggin' unbelievable that Motor Trend makes these two quotes in their TOTY issue:

TrailBlazer: Lows: "Could use five-speed auto trans"

Envoy: "There's but one transmission choice offered, or required for all that: a silky-shifting 4L60-E four-speed automatic. 'Where's the five-speed automatic tranny that's becoming more common in this class these days?' you might ask. 'Just not requiered' is the answer, given the powerplant's ultra-wide torque band, smooth operation, and quick-rev behavior."

They both use the same GAWD DAMN engine/transmission you fargin' IDIOITS!

I personally think that the Explorer should have won. It has a new independent rear suspension, more interior room, MUCH greater safety features (dual front, head, side, headliner airbags), rear-sensing parking assistance, third-row seat, 5-speed tranny
 
lol, how can anyone turn down that fire-breathing 255HP 32V V8? I mean cmon, you can get it all for the low price of like 35,000 bucks....blah
 
NFS4: I'll cede you that one on the trannies. 😉 But I don't think the Envoy is WAY behind, that's a bit overstated. Is it SUV of the year? I imagine that any one of a dozen could have won, depending on their ad budgets. 😀 😀 😀

As for your comparing the Explorer vs. the Envoy, I think you got some things mixed up, esp. on the front air bag ... here's a link to a comparison of Envoy vs. Explorer. Envoy stacks up pretty well, and that 'six is quite sweet ...

Envoy vs. Explorer
 
yeah, the Exploder should have won, especially since it's using the same fuggin V6/V8 engines for close to 10 years! now that's what I call Ford innovation!😉
 


<< yeah, the Exploder should have won, especially since it's using the same fuggin V6/V8 engines for close to 10 years! now that's what I call Ford innovation!😉 >>


Do you even know what you're talking about???

The Explorer used a 4.0 liter OHV 160HP V6 from '91 til '95 (the only engine choice)
It used a 4.0 liter SOHC 205-210 HP V6 from '97 til present
It used a 4.9 liter 215 HP V8 from '96 til '01

The new Explorer use an updated version of the SOHC V6 for 210 HP and a new 4.6 liter V8 for 239 HP

Got anything else to say?? 🙂 Or just more BS? 😀



<< As for your comparing the Explorer vs. the Envoy, I think you got some things mixed up, esp. on the front air bag ... here's a link to a comparison of Envoy vs. Explorer. Envoy stacks up pretty well, and that 'six is quite sweet ... >>


Well, duh, they're comparing it to an XLS Explorer which is the bottom of the barrel Explorer with hardly ANY features. They compare the Envoy which comes pretty much fully stacked anyway to the XLS version of the Explorer. What kind of crap is that? That's like comparing a loaded Audi A4 to a base Atlima. A fairer comparsion would be the Envoy vs a Limited or Eddie Baur Explorer, but GM just wants to make the Envoy look good of course. The base TrailBlazer and XLS Explorer are competitors however. The XLT, Eddie Baur, and Limited give you side airbags, with rollover protection bags coming next year. Also don't count out the Explorer sweet indpendent rear suspension and third row seat that folds flat. And it also has the rear parking sense dectors. As far as bringing features to an already crowded segment, the Explorer comes out on top in that respect. Even with it's sweet six, the Envoy doesn't "run away" from the Explorer even though it has 270HP vs 239 for the Explorer's V8.
 
I haven't trusted MT since that beluga whale of a ?91 Crapiece Classic won the award. MT sucks. I do generally respect Car and Driver. They still have a half a nut to tell it how it is. I?ve never seen them gush over a totally crappy product.
 


<< Well, duh, they're comparing it to an XLS Explorer which is the bottom of the barrel Explorer with hardly ANY features. >>

My bad, I don't follow Ford's lines of demarcation (ie. LE, SE, SLT, XLS, whatever).

So how does a well-loaded Explorer compare to the Envoy price-wise?
 


<<

<< Well, duh, they're comparing it to an XLS Explorer which is the bottom of the barrel Explorer with hardly ANY features. >>

My bad, I don't follow Ford's lines of demarcation (ie. LE, SE, SLT, XLS, whatever).

So how does a well-loaded Explorer compare to the Envoy price-wise? >>


XLS --> XLT --> Eddie Baur --> Limited

A loaded Eddie Baur Explorer is $36,905 (including rear parking sensors, head curtain airbags, leather, and third row seat)
A loaded Envoy is $36,270
 
I've stopped reading the big 3. They're all so full of crap it's not even funny. Any technical discussions are usually rubbish, car reviews are heavily biased, and those spy shots and concept drawings are crap (not to mention that the pictures have usually been floating around the internet for months before they get printed). Not worth my time nor money to go through that crap that they print and call a magazine. But whatever.
 
Now the question comes down to whether the rear wheel bearings on that Ford will corrode due to exposure to road salt, like on all those Fords they just had to recall. :Q
 


<<

<< yeah, the Exploder should have won, especially since it's using the same fuggin V6/V8 engines for close to 10 years! now that's what I call Ford innovation!😉 >>


Do you even know what you're talking about???

The Explorer used a 4.0 liter OHV 160HP V6 from '91 til '95 (the only engine choice)
It used a 4.0 liter SOHC 205-210 HP V6 from '97 til present
It used a 4.9 liter 215 HP V8 from '96 til '01

The new Explorer use an updated version of the SOHC V6 for 210 HP and a new 4.6 liter V8 for 239 HP

Got anything else to say?? 🙂 Or just more BS? 😀
 >>




think about what you're saying for a second. those engines are the exact same engines that Ford used in there Explorers for years, they just revise them minimally each year. tell me this, why can't Ford develop a competent DOHC engine, instead of those loud arse SOHC engines. Nissan has a DOHC engine in the Pathfinder, why can't Ford do the same and stop rehashing old antiquated engine designs?

Fact - I test drove a 2K2 Explorer, and the thing was sluggish and the engined moaned like a hoar when stepped hard on. and you keep raving about the IRS, big deal. that's one feature i'll give Ford credit for.

Fact - I also test drove an Envoy, and i won't tell you how sweet that engine is. it actually had a more comfortable ride than the Explorer.

So NFS4, where does your Personal experience come in here, or you just believe everything that you read?
 


<< Now the question comes down to whether the rear wheel bearings on that Ford will corrode due to exposure to road salt, like on all those Fords they just had to recall. :Q >>


Haha, yeah just read about that today on Avantgo. They are recalling the Focus' for the SEVENTH time (I think that the Focus was the only vehicle affected with the bearings).
 
The one thing I wish they would also include for the envoy is the V8 option
 
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<< think about what you're saying for a second. those engines are the exact same engines that Ford used in there Explorers for years, they just revise them minimally each year. tell me this, why can't Ford develop a competent DOHC engine, instead of those loud arse SOHC engines. Nissan has a DOHC engine in the Pathfinder, why can't Ford do the same and stop rehashing old antiquated engine designs?

Fact - I test drove a 2K2 Explorer, and the thing was sluggish and the engined moaned like a hoar when stepped hard on. and you keep raving about the IRS, big deal. that's one feature i'll give Ford credit for.

Fact - I also test drove an Envoy, and i won't tell you how sweet that engine is. it actually had a more comfortable ride than the Explorer.

So NFS4, where does your Personal experience come in here, or you just believe e >>


My personal experience comes from the fact that my family has had TWO Explorers.

A '94 XLT with the 160HP OHV V6
A '97 XLT with the 205HP SOHC V6

I personally put about 25,000 miles on the '94 and about 17,000 miles on the '97.

The 160HP OHV was used mainly from '91 til '96
The 210HP SOHC engine was used from '97 to present
The 215HP V8 engine was used from '96 to '01
The 239HP SOHC V8 engine from 2002 on.

Four different engines (OHV V6, SOHC V6, OHV V8, SOHC V8). Where are you getting TEN YEARS FROM?

Any other questions?
 
Anyway, bummer to hear 2005 as a Possible truck.... Where is the dazm SS Silverado :frown:
 
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<< 2003 TrailBlazer XL (Midsize SUV)
Starting sometime early next year, Chevrolet will begin offering a stretched version of its recently introduced TrailBlazer sport-ute. The extra length will be used to accommodate a third-row seat in order to compete better with the Ford Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer and Dodge Durango, each of which offers seven-passenger seating. Another possibility is the addition of a V8 engine option that would give the TrailBlazer not only the highest horsepower in its class, but also the highest torque rating, as well.

Yeah Baaybee, I called that one... well sorta, they wont offer it in the Colorado tho 🙁

2004 Colorado (Compact Truck)
The long-awaited replacement for the ancient S-10 is finally on its way. Spotted during hot-weather testing in the desert, this crew cab version shows that the new truck, likely to be renamed the Colorado, will wear design cues borrowed from the new TrailBlazer SUV. Engine choices are likely to be four-, five- and six-cylinder versions of the 4.2-liter Vortec inline six that debuted in the TrailBlazer. It looks to be significantly larger than the previous truck, a good sign, considering that the last crew cab we tested had miserable rear-seat accommodations

But there will be this guy... but man 2005 🙁 🙁

2005 Midsize Truck
There's been some talk around Detroit that GM may introduce a midsize truck to compete with Dodge's strong-selling Dakota. Chevrolet's new midsize will likely offer standard, extended and crew cab configurations. Considering that the General's arsenal includes engines like the new 4.2-liter 270 horsepower inline six and 5.3-liter 285 horsepower Vortec V8, this new truck could produce plenty of intriguing variations, especially when it comes to creating a rival to the tire-shredding Dakota R/T.

LOL they called the Dakota R/T a tire shredder, a couple guys have em up here with Superchargers on em, one with a 8psi powerdyne, the other with about 14 out of a Paxton... Easy meat still 🙂

Anyway, bummer to hear 2005 as a Possible truck.... Where is the dazm SS Silverado :frown: >>


Motor Trend has already showed pictures of the Envoy XL, and the things looks HIDEOUSLY deformed. The Envoy looks great as it is, but they stretched out the rear doors and rear of the vehicle and it looks like a mess now. So out of proportion.

I figure the Trailblzer will look just as bad.
 
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