So Landis was tested 8 times during the tour.

[freegeeks]

the conspiracy theories are floating around, especially with our American friends
not only did they found that the levels of testosterone / epitestosterone were all f*cked up, he also tested positive for exogenous testosterone in both the A and B sample

first he claimed that he tested positive because he had a beer then it was because he had beer and Jack Daniels then because of dehydration :thumbsdown:

he got caught, he should stop whining

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
the conspiracy theories are floating around, especially with our American friends
not only did they found that the levels of testosterone / epitestosterone were all f*cked up, he also tested positive for exogenous testosterone in both the A and B sample

first he claimed that he tested positive because he had a beer then it was because he had beer and Jack Daniels then because of dehydration :thumbsdown:

he got caught, he should stop whining

QFT

 

[hdeck]

all you have to do is listen to espn's cycling analyst. nothing makes sense about the entire situation.

landis isn't helping his case AT ALL by having 20 different explanations, though.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: freegeeks
the conspiracy theories are floating around, especially with our American friends
not only did they found that the levels of testosterone / epitestosterone were all f*cked up, he also tested positive for exogenous testosterone in both the A and B sample

first he claimed that he tested positive because he had a beer then it was because he had beer and Jack Daniels then because of dehydration :thumbsdown:

he caught caught, he should stop whining

QFT

seriously, I don't read about conspiracy theories in the German, Spanish, Belgian press when Ullrich and co° were exposed for the cheating bastards that they are and these guys didn't even tested positive but when Landis effectively tests positive it suddenly is a French conspiracy. What is the next lie from Floyd, vanishing twins a la Tyler Hamilton

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: hdeck
all you have to do is listen to espn's cycling analyst. nothing makes sense about the entire situation.

landis isn't helping his case AT ALL by having 20 different explanations, though.

then the espn analyst knows sh*t about cycling

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: freegeeks
the conspiracy theories are floating around, especially with our American friends
not only did they found that the levels of testosterone / epitestosterone were all f*cked up, he also tested positive for exogenous testosterone in both the A and B sample

first he claimed that he tested positive because he had a beer then it was because he had beer and Jack Daniels then because of dehydration :thumbsdown:

he caught caught, he should stop whining

QFT

seriously, I don't read about conspiracy theories in the German, Spanish, Belgian press when Ullrich and co° were exposed for the cheating bastards that they are and these guys didn't even tested positive but when Landis effectively tests positive it suddenly is a French conspiracy. What is the next lie from Floyd, vanishing twins a la Tyler Hamilton

I think most of us think he probably cheated, but we're witholding judgement until it is all settled.

 

[sash1]

Originally posted by: theknight571
Weren't two samples positive?

Still strange though... unless he just needed "help" near the end.

in talks with some Dr. at the UCI that I watched this morning, the two samples really AREN'T two samples. It's one urine sample and they split it in half.

So basically it's one sample, so no sh!t the results are going to be the same.

I think the whole UCI is a little shady. All of his other tests were negative, I don't see why on one day his testosterone would be so different.

At least for now I want to believe him. Being a runner myself, I've always loved the sport of cycling and will continue to watch le tour. I hope it gets cleaned up.

 

[JS80]

does anyone know if there would be traces of testosterone the next day?

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
seriously, I don't read about conspiracy theories in the German, Spanish, Belgian press when Ullrich and co° were exposed for the cheating bastards that they are and these guys didn't even tested positive but when Landis effectively tests positive it suddenly is a French conspiracy. What is the next lie from Floyd, vanishing twins a la Tyler Hamilton

Exactly. I was a little miffed how quickly they pounced on Landis after the one test was found (they did seem to give more time to other riders before), but fact is fact, and Landis doped. No matter how sad it is.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: freegeeks
seriously, I don't read about conspiracy theories in the German, Spanish, Belgian press when Ullrich and co° were exposed for the cheating bastards that they are and these guys didn't even tested positive but when Landis effectively tests positive it suddenly is a French conspiracy. What is the next lie from Floyd, vanishing twins a la Tyler Hamilton

Exactly. I was a little miffed how quickly they pounced on Landis after the one test was found (they did seem to give more time to other riders before), but fact is fact, and Landis doped. No matter how sad it is.

Elaborate scheme with Ulrich + co + doctors + sophisticated masking dopeage =/= landis testing positive on one stage of the entire race.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
depends on how fast the levels drop, i guess.

That's the key question, but my knowledge of biology/chemistry isn't enough to answer it. If he was tested 8 times over a 22 day race, and only one test was positive for doping (allegedly testosterone), does that make sense scientifically? I don't have an answer to that. Does anyone?

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: freegeeks
seriously, I don't read about conspiracy theories in the German, Spanish, Belgian press when Ullrich and co° were exposed for the cheating bastards that they are and these guys didn't even tested positive but when Landis effectively tests positive it suddenly is a French conspiracy. What is the next lie from Floyd, vanishing twins a la Tyler Hamilton

Exactly. I was a little miffed how quickly they pounced on Landis after the one test was found (they did seem to give more time to other riders before), but fact is fact, and Landis doped. No matter how sad it is.

Elaborate scheme with Ulrich + co + doctors + sophisticated masking dopeage =/= landis testing positive on one stage of the entire race.

The one stage that put him back in stanging for the Tour win. :roll:

Look, I am one of the people that would be more than happy if the allegations were false, but they weren't, so .

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: sash1

Originally posted by: theknight571
Weren't two samples positive?

Still strange though... unless he just needed "help" near the end.

in talks with some Dr. at the UCI that I watched this morning, the two samples really AREN'T two samples. It's one urine sample and they split it in half.

So basically it's one sample, so no sh!t the results are going to be the same.

I think the whole UCI is a little shady. All of his other tests were negative, I don't see why on one day his testosterone would be so different.

At least for now I want to believe him. Being a runner myself, I've always loved the sport of cycling and will continue to watch le tour. I hope it gets cleaned up.

Ullrich NEVER tested positive and there is conclusive evidence that he used dope in the 2005 Tour de France. And I mean he used everything from growth hormones to steroids and EPO. Makes you wonder how he passed al these tests last year.

My theory is simple. They made a mistake while prepping Floys, to much testosterone or they f*cked up with the masking stuff or something like that

 

[Codewiz]

Did he had any tests after the positive tests that came back positive? It does not get out of your system in a way. It takes weeks. If all the samples after that stage isn't positive then their is something messed up going on.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: ElFenix
depends on how fast the levels drop, i guess.

That's the key question, but my knowledge of biology/chemistry isn't enough to answer it. If he was tested 8 times over a 22 day race, and only one test was positive for doping (allegedly testosterone), does that make sense scientifically? I don't have an answer to that. Does anyone?

it's well known that you can cheat with testosterone without being positive. Normally the level of testosterone / epitestorone should be a ratio 1:1. The UCI only counts a positive when you exceed 4:1, Landis was tested 11:1. Landis has no record of having a high natural testosterone level so he has to explain 2 things

- the 11:1 ratio epitestosterone / testosterone
- the carbon isotope test that showed that the testosterone in his body was NOT from a natural source

I don't know, maybe he had a shot of Jack Daniels mixed with SYNTHETIC testosterone

 

[ballmode]

hes ugly

Lance Armstong = FTW

he even dated sheryl crow

landis = fugly

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
He was tested 4 times before stage 17 and 3 times after and only the one sample was positive.

Does this not sound kind of suspicious.

No it doesn't sound suspicious. He didn't expect to win the stage and thus didn't expect to be tested after the stage.

And simply because there is a statistical possibility that someone could have sabotaged him does not make his positive test suspicious in the least imo.

At this point Landis should own up, and then just as quicly stfu.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: jjsole
No it doesn't sound suspicious. He didn't expect to win the stage and thus didn't expect to be tested after the stage.

And simply because there is a statistical possibility that someone could have sabotaged him does not make his positive test suspicious in the least imo.

At this point Landis should own up, and then just as quicly stfu.

Dopers never own up. If they did, that would conclude their cycling careers.

It sucks because he had gone so far, from being an abrasive innocent underling of Lance Armstrong to this.

 

[Toasthead]

Originally posted by: theknight571
Weren't two samples positive?

Still strange though... unless he just needed "help" near the end.

from what I have read, synthetic testosterone wont show immediate results when injested. It needs time to work its magic...

So he couldnt just shoot up and dominate.

 

[sash1]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: jjsole
No it doesn't sound suspicious. He didn't expect to win the stage and thus didn't expect to be tested after the stage.

And simply because there is a statistical possibility that someone could have sabotaged him does not make his positive test suspicious in the least imo.

At this point Landis should own up, and then just as quicly stfu.

Dopers never own up. If they did, that would conclude their cycling careers.

It sucks because he had gone so far, from being an abrasive innocent underling of Lance Armstrong to this.

I doubt he'll own up. In an interview he had this morning on ESPN when Floyd was asked if he thought he would be vindicated he said something like (paraphrased): "the UCI is a shady operation and they've already broken the laws... but my friends, my family and I know the truth..."

that is basically is saying "i'm guilty but I'm not going to say it"

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: theknight571
Weren't two samples positive?

Still strange though... unless he just needed "help" near the end.

from what I have read, synthetic testosterone wont show immediate results when injested. It needs time to work its magic...

So he couldnt just shoot up and dominate.

As I posted above, Dr. David Black disagrees, and he's tried it:

Dr. Black, author of the book "Drug Testing in Sports,'' states,

"I have injected myself with testosterone in doing research, and I can tell you from personal experience that within hours, you feel a profound psychological change, a sense of well-being, aggression and energy," Black said.

"You feel strong and powerful. And your endurance is definitely improved. So, it's not peculiar to me that a cyclist would take testosterone after a bad day. What does seem peculiar is that an athlete of that caliber would put himself at such great risk, knowing that they test for testosterone."

 

[SP33Demon]

Text

Apparently Team Phonak has had TEN doping incidents in the past 3 years, TEN. Guilty as charged in my book, birds of a feather...

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Text

Apparently Team Phonak has had TEN doping incidents in the past 3 years, TEN. Guilty as charged in my book, birds of a feather...

Team Phonak is gone now. But yeah, the doping scandals really brought Team Phonak out to light. The thing is I thought Floyd was clean.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
He was tested 4 times before stage 17 and 3 times after and only the one sample was positive.

Does this not sound kind of suspicious.

Very.

On top of that, his epi-to-test ratio was messed up because his epi was LOW. His test was within normal ranges.

Lots that doesn't add up.

 

[Soccer55]

Originally posted by: DonVito
As I posted above, Dr. David Black disagrees, and he's tried it:

Dr. Black, author of the book "Drug Testing in Sports,'' states,

"I have injected myself with testosterone in doing research, and I can tell you from personal experience that within hours, you feel a profound psychological change, a sense of well-being, aggression and energy," Black said.

"You feel strong and powerful. And your endurance is definitely improved. So, it's not peculiar to me that a cyclist would take testosterone after a bad day. What does seem peculiar is that an athlete of that caliber would put himself at such great risk, knowing that they test for testosterone."

I'd be more impressed with this Dr. Black's findings if he had undergone multiple injections in some sort of blind study involving a placebo. Since he injected himself with testosterone, could it have been that he experienced these changes because he was expecting to see them? Maybe.....maybe not.

-Tom