So Im sitting here watching TV....

[Cuda1447]

Flippin through channels and I come across Oprah. Now normally I would just keep flipping, but for some reason I listened for a few moments. Turns out its a show about Lesbians.

Now let me preface this by saying I have no problem with homosexual people. Thats not what this thread is about. Rather, its about WHY people are homosexual, scientifically, why?

Ok, so Im listening to this lady talk. She's telling a story of how she was married for 5 years had two children and was pregnant with her third. She said she didn't realize she was a lesbian till she was pregnant with a little girl. Odd story, since most people say they've "felt" it since they were young.

To stay on topic of the main girl though. It just seems odd that all of a sudden you would 'realize' that you were gay. She keeps saying the phrase 'woman identified'. Not sure what exactly she means by that, but thats why she decided she was a lesbian?

So why are people homosexual? It seems to me there are a couple of possibilities.

1. Completely by choice. Typically disputed by homosexual people and advocated by anti-homosexuals.
2. Genetic makeup. Something in your DNA makes you born this way. I would imagine thats what most homosexuals will say.
3. Mental disorder. Something similar to depression/schziofrenia/bipolar disorder etc..


Now I'm not knowledgeable enough to say for sure which one this is. And I dont think there any any definite studies that have been done pointing to one thing or the other. But if I had to guess I'd go with mental disorder. My logic may be horribly flawed, but let me point out my logic anyway.

1. Choice doesn't seem like a valid reason because we have all heard the stories where someone claims they would do anything in the world to not be gay etc... just seems kinda weird that people would choose that? Not really to sure.
2. Genetic makeup seems highly unlilkely. Wouldn't you see a pattern in families if this was the case? Sure it could be a recessive gene, but if I'm not mistaken there has been zero evidence pointing to it being genetic.

Not really to sure, I plan to do some research on it all though. I realize we've debated this before, but I would like to keep this completely scientific and leave out morals/whether you think its right/wrong, whether you agree with it etc...

 

[imported_Trippin315]

I am taking a day to watch S1 and S2 of THe Office. I have nothing else better to burn vacation on.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: Trippin315
I am taking a day to watch S1 and S2 of THe Office. I have nothing else better to burn vacation on.

Thanks for telling me. :roll:

 

[Chaotic42]

I think it has to be from birth. I don't know, I don't see how in the world anyone can find guys attractive. We're all hairy and just... Bleh.

The female form is in every way better.

 

[mk52]

I've always wondered if you take a person that is flaming gay and put him\her on a deserted island at birth, if they would turn out to be gay?
Meaning the first time they meet a person of the same and a person of the opposite sex, which one would they be attracted to.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Flippin through channels and I come across Oprah. Now normally I would just keep flipping, but for some reason I listened for a few moments. Turns out its a show about Lesbians.

Now let me preface this by saying I have no problem with homosexual people. Thats not what this thread is about. Rather, its about WHY people are homosexual, scientifically, why?

Ok, so Im listening to this lady talk. She's telling a story of how she was married for 5 years had two children and was pregnant with her third. She said she didn't realize she was a lesbian till she was pregnant with a little girl. Odd story, since most people say they've "felt" it since they were young.

To stay on topic of the main girl though. It just seems odd that all of a sudden you would 'realize' that you were gay. She keeps saying the phrase 'woman identified'. Not sure what exactly she means by that, but thats why she decided she was a lesbian?

So why are people homosexual? It seems to me there are a couple of possibilities.

1. Completely by choice. Typically disputed by homosexual people and advocated by anti-homosexuals.
2. Genetic makeup. Something in your DNA makes you born this way. I would imagine thats what most homosexuals will say.
3. Mental disorder. Something similar to depression/schziofrenia/bipolar disorder etc..


Now I'm not knowledgeable enough to say for sure which one this is. And I dont think there any any definite studies that have been done pointing to one thing or the other. But if I had to guess I'd go with mental disorder. My logic may be horribly flawed, but let me point out my logic anyway.

1. Choice doesn't seem like a valid reason because we have all heard the stories where someone claims they would do anything in the world to not be gay etc... just seems kinda weird that people would choose that? Not really to sure.
2. Genetic makeup seems highly unlilkely. Wouldn't you see a pattern in families if this was the case? Sure it could be a recessive gene, but if I'm not mistaken there has been zero evidence pointing to it being genetic.

Not really to sure, I plan to do some research on it all though. I realize we've debated this before, but I would like to keep this completely scientific and leave out morals/whether you think its right/wrong, whether you agree with it etc...

Shens!

 

[slsmnaz]

Many people are just "wired" differently. Some guys like tall women, some short, some fat/skinny/blonde/brunette/white/black etc. I truly believe it can be a part of your genetic makeup. I also feel that they should be able to love the way they want just like I can. I can respect it but don't purposely throw it in my face and expect me to like it. I would not do that to anyone w/ my straight lifestyle.

That said, I do not believe that everyone who comes out is truly that way from birth. It seems to me that some identify with the "I've been different all my life" way of thinking and are not actually gay. It is more of a lifestyle they choose than one that is chosen for them.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
Many people are just "wired" differently. Some guys like tall women, some short, some fat/skinny/blonde/brunette/white/black etc. I truly believe it can be a part of your genetic makeup. I also feel that they should be able to love the way they want just like I can. I can respect it but don't purposely throw it in my face and expect me to like it. I would not do that to anyone w/ my straight lifestyle.

That said, I do not believe that everyone who comes out is truly that way from birth. It seems to me that some identify with the "I've been different all my life" way of thinking and are not actually gay. It is more of a lifestyle they choose than one that is chosen for them.

I'd have to disagree with the first part of your statement, mainly the wording. Sure some people like different things, but I'd venture to argue that the majority of us 'like' stuff because of the way we have been conditioned by society.

Take for instance Americans. Typically we would not go for the head thingy (not sur ethe name) that Arab women wear. I doubt most American men find that attractive. But I'm sure a lot of Arab men would much prefer their Arab women over our American women. (Of course I could be totally wrong). My point is that we like certain things because of the way we've been conditioned, not because of any significant amount of wiring, I don't think.

Nature vs. Nurture? I think Nurture wins in this case.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Now I'm not knowledgeable enough to say for sure which one this is. And I dont think there any any definite studies that have been done pointing to one thing or the other. But if I had to guess I'd go with mental disorder. My logic may be horribly flawed, but let me point out my logic anyway.

1. Choice doesn't seem like a valid reason because we have all heard the stories where someone claims they would do anything in the world to not be gay etc... just seems kinda weird that people would choose that? Not really to sure.
2. Genetic makeup seems highly unlilkely. Wouldn't you see a pattern in families if this was the case? Sure it could be a recessive gene, but if I'm not mistaken there has been zero evidence pointing to it being genetic.

Well, at least you openly admit your ignorance.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5120004.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Biology

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
Many people are just "wired" differently. Some guys like tall women, some short, some fat/skinny/blonde/brunette/white/black etc. I truly believe it can be a part of your genetic makeup. I also feel that they should be able to love the way they want just like I can. I can respect it but don't purposely throw it in my face and expect me to like it. I would not do that to anyone w/ my straight lifestyle.

That said, I do not believe that everyone who comes out is truly that way from birth. It seems to me that some identify with the "I've been different all my life" way of thinking and are not actually gay. It is more of a lifestyle they choose than one that is chosen for them.

I'd have to disagree with the first part of your statement, mainly the wording. Sure some people like different things, but I'd venture to argue that the majority of us 'like' stuff because of the way we have been conditioned by society.

Take for instance Americans. Typically we would not go for the head thingy (not sur ethe name) that Arab women wear. I doubt most American men find that attractive. But I'm sure a lot of Arab men would much prefer their Arab women over our American women. (Of course I could be totally wrong). My point is that we like certain things because of the way we've been conditioned, not because of any significant amount of wiring, I don't think.

Nature vs. Nurture? I think Nurture wins in this case.

I think you missed my point. You're talking about clothing, not the person. American women wear hats that are just as silly (see the Kentucky Derby) and men still find them attractive. There are some men who only date Asian or black women. That is what they find attractive in a mate and no one gets on them about it. Why would finding a man attractive be any different?

 

[flexy]

People get pressured and put by society into some role, eg. housewife, father, whatever.

Maybe that lady just had the time after she was married to reflect what she actually wants.

This does NOT mean that people "BECOME gay after some time"..i dont think so....it's just society and "accepted" behavior which makes people assume a role..and it might take a while for certain people to realize what they really want, especially if they're bound to stuff like familiy-life, relatives, religion etc.

* genetic makeup....i'd say yes....even if i dont KNOW

* by choice....uhm...nope SOME act like this...but i know that certain people incl. myself are just not attracted to the same sex...and people always want ME make believe it would be easy...especially bi/gay people. But..i am old enough to KNOW what i am attracted to and what not...so they're defintly WRONG if they talk like its just a matter of choice

* "dis"order.....well this is relative..how you see it. There are some gays which are pretty confident with their lifestyle and would NOT call themselves having a "disorder"..but then..on a CERTAIN level you are right..since (scientifically speaking) sex between the same sex doesnt make much "sense"

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Now I'm not knowledgeable enough to say for sure which one this is. And I dont think there any any definite studies that have been done pointing to one thing or the other. But if I had to guess I'd go with mental disorder. My logic may be horribly flawed, but let me point out my logic anyway.

1. Choice doesn't seem like a valid reason because we have all heard the stories where someone claims they would do anything in the world to not be gay etc... just seems kinda weird that people would choose that? Not really to sure.
2. Genetic makeup seems highly unlilkely. Wouldn't you see a pattern in families if this was the case? Sure it could be a recessive gene, but if I'm not mistaken there has been zero evidence pointing to it being genetic.

Well, at least you openly admit your ignorance.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5120004.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Biology

Good reads, but one thing I'd like to point out. If theres one thing Ive learned from years of debating controversial subjects, its that its EXTREMELY easy to find evidence in your favor. Now just because you find evidence doesn't mean its credible/valid/not-biased. Not saying your evidence is bad, just saying I take everything I read with a large grain of salt. As both of your articles point out, those are simply theories. Interesting reads nonetheless.


*edit* interesting study showing higher risk of suicide in homosexuals here

 

[lokiju]

Can't confirm this is true, but my Grandpa told me before a story about how when my Mom was growing up was friends with this male kid (like 8 or so) and that he acted very girly, his parents were concerned and took him to a doctor and the doctor put him on testosterone treatments or something to that effect and from what my Grandpa said, he claimed that the kid didn't act girly anymore after that.

 

[Cuda1447]

bump for the evening crowd with more opinions.

 

[stonecold3169]

The current pyschological community attributes it highly to what gender you are around most when puberty hits, be it forced or by choice. Middleschool athletes actually are more likely to be homosexual then people who do not play spots, which shows that being highly constricted with the same gender in fairly intimate situations seems to cause homosexuality

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: stonecold3169
The current pyschological community attributes it highly to what gender you are around most when puberty hits, be it forced or by choice. Middleschool athletes actually are more likely to be homosexual then people who do not play spots, which shows that being highly constricted with the same gender in fairly intimate situations seems to cause homosexuality

Very interesting theory. Any studies to back that up?

 

[Leeroy]

Sometimes you're just born different.

http://venusenvy.comicgenesis.com/