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So if they don't put grapes or oranges in soda...

paperfist

paperfist

Diamond Member
Then what the hell in there is giving it that grape or orange taste? Some say natural flavors, but not what the actual composition is. If it were grapes or oranges I would think it would say that. Meanwhile grape juice is made with grapes and orange juice is made with actual oranges.

So what's the deal with soda not containing any real ingredients?
 
Chemicals are cheaper, and there's less chance of backlash because people expect soda to be artificial. Artificial juice would be rejected by most.
 
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lxskllr said:
Chemicals are cheaper, and there's less chance of backlash because people expect soda to be artificial. Artificial juice would be rejected by most.
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Don't quote my pricing as exact, but can't you buy a gallon of grape juice for $4 vrs 2 liters of soda for around $2? Seems pretty even.

Granted lab generated grape or orange is even cheaper. I'd love to know how they make those flavors as in with what chemicals.
 
Diacetyl - Buttery
Isoamyl acetate - Banana
Benzaldehyde - Bitter almond
Cinnamic aldehyde - Cinnamon
Ethyl propionate - Fruity
Methyl anthranilate - Grape
Limonene - Orange
Ethyl- (''E'',''Z'')-2,4-decadienoate - Pear
Allyl hexanoate - Pineapple
Ethyl maltol - Sugar, Cotton candy
Ethylvanillin - Vanilla
Methyl salicylate - Wintergreen
 
Taste is caused by chemicals in the food. There are chemicals other than the ones present in the food that cause the same taste buds to activate.

Its all chemistry. There is nothing intrinsic about "real" food that makes it so that its somehow special. Taste is just a chemical process that can be fooled by differing molecules.
 
paperfist said:
Don't quote my pricing as exact, but can't you buy a gallon of grape juice for $4 vrs 2 liters of soda for around $2? Seems pretty even.
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without regard to specific pricing, you can't make a direct comparison. There's different margins for different products. Specifically on your pricing, it seems off to me. I don't buy grape juice, as I don't like it much, but $4 a gallon sounds cheap. I think generic soda still can be found for 50¢/L, and they're making a profit at those prices.
 
There are certain chemicals that make up the flavors in fruit. Its often complex, say 50+ flavors to a fruit. However, there might be 5 chemicals that produce 90% of the flavor.

To my understanding, natural flavors means extracting these chemicals from actual fruit and artificial flavoring means producing the chemicals in a lab.
 
Craig234 said:
Watch this 60 Minuts segment on the artificial flavor industry, fascinating.

It's a huge industry with a narrow group making flavors in all kinds of foods.

What goes into 'natural' flavors is another story... (think ground bugs for example).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/28/artificial-natural-flavors-givaudan_n_1116081.html
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Great so I'm an addict and need a 10 step program. Nice...

Ugh, "Natural flavors can come from things like a beaver's backside" 🙁

I can't believe the amount of chemicals in that chick's lab or that she has any sense of smell left after using them.
 
Eli said:
Diacetyl - Buttery
Isoamyl acetate - Banana
Benzaldehyde - Bitter almond
Cinnamic aldehyde - Cinnamon
Ethyl propionate - Fruity
Methyl anthranilate - Grape
Limonene - Orange
Ethyl- (''E'',''Z'')-2,4-decadienoate - Pear
Allyl hexanoate - Pineapple
Ethyl maltol - Sugar, Cotton candy
Ethylvanillin - Vanilla
Methyl salicylate - Wintergreen
Click to expand...

Very interesting. That can't be the whole equation though as with soda there's still sugar and a host of other chemicals added to make up the product. It would be awesome if I could just add some Isoamyl acetate to my water to give it a banana taste 🙂

lxskllr said:
without regard to specific pricing, you can't make a direct comparison. There's different margins for different products. Specifically on your pricing, it seems off to me. I don't buy grape juice, as I don't like it much, but $4 a gallon sounds cheap. I think generic soda still can be found for 50¢/L, and they're making a profit at those prices.
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I haven't bought grape juice in about 8 months so that's what I remember paying for some made with concord grapes. When I do buy it I mix it with half water as it's too sweet so I'm just curious why a little of that with carbonated water wouldn't rival the taste and cost of chemically made soda. I guess you're right though, different margins on different products, I don't usually drink soda but last night I had to have some orange and picked up 3 Fanta's for $5.
 
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Castoreum is only mentioned as "natural flavoring" in many products.

Wikipedia said:
Food use

In the United States, Castoreum has been approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as a food additive,[12] often referenced simply as a "natural flavoring" in the product's list of ingredients. It is commonly used in both food and beverages, especially as vanilla and raspberry flavoring.[13]

Castoreum has been traditionally used in Scandinavia for flavoring snaps commonly referred to as "Bäverhojt".[14]

Other uses

Castoreum is also used in small amounts to contribute to the flavor and odor of cigarettes.
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Ichinisan said:
Castoreum is only mentioned as "natural flavoring" in many products.
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How does the FDA approve that? "It is commonly used in both food and beverages, especially as vanilla and raspberry flavoring"

Gross! If an ingredient label contained actual ingredients I wonder if anyone would buy this stuff. I was just reading that on the ingredient label if you use multiple sugar sources it allows you to not list it as #1 on the list because you have broken it down into different ingredients like sugar, fructose corn syrup, brown sugar, etc. That's kind of shady.
 
It's understandable why they use processed chemicals for sodas.

You get easy to transport and dispense ingredients that give a consistent flavor.
And it's easy to control the intensity of flavor.
 
paperfist said:
How does the FDA approve that? "It is commonly used in both food and beverages, especially as vanilla and raspberry flavoring"

Gross! If an ingredient label contained actual ingredients I wonder if anyone would buy this stuff. I was just reading that on the ingredient label if you use multiple sugar sources it allows you to not list it as #1 on the list because you have broken it down into different ingredients like sugar, fructose corn syrup, brown sugar, etc. That's kind of shady.
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Being Gross and not being harmful are not mutually exclusive.
 
This is what lobbyists do all day - get businesses what they want over consumers.

To be fair, it's not always 'evil'. Sure, we say we want to know those disgusting details, but I'm not sure.

Is it better that consumers just hear 'natural flavors' and not the gross details and like it?

Consumers largely won the battle to get the ingredients listed at all and nutrition information (which most ignore). 'Organic' is a battle currently.
 
paperfist said:
How does the FDA approve that? "It is commonly used in both food and beverages, especially as vanilla and raspberry flavoring"

Gross! If an ingredient label contained actual ingredients I wonder if anyone would buy this stuff. I was just reading that on the ingredient label if you use multiple sugar sources it allows you to not list it as #1 on the list because you have broken it down into different ingredients like sugar, fructose corn syrup, brown sugar, etc. That's kind of shady.
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Evidently, the Beaver Ass Juice lobby has loads of money.
 
Crono said:
It's understandable why they use processed chemicals for sodas.

You get easy to transport and dispense ingredients that give a consistent flavor.
And it's easy to control the intensity of flavor.
Click to expand...

Not to mention many "natural" ingredients can spoil easily. Chemicals provide for easier manufacture, storage and shelf life.
 
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