So I went and shot guns for the first time today...

[DaTT]

My thread has been hijacked....

 

[Vic Vega]

DaTT, sounds like you had a blast. Please don't let gun fanbois drive you away! )

 

[dmcowen674]

The RONI kit turn your Glock handgun into a rifle I guess. Just slap the kit around your pistol and BOOM, a rifle that can accept attachments and stuff.

I don't think it actually lengthens the barrel, that would be dangerous. It looks like maybe heat dissipation on the end. It's all for handling and sight.

 

[IcePickFreak]

Considering the FBI made their rule using ballistics gelatin and not a bunch of milk jugs filled with water lined up, I'm not really sure where he was going with his test.

 

[yllus]

Target Sports Canada

Get there early and go on a weekday as they get tons of walk-ons.

It's up in Gormley, off the 404 just North of Major Mac

Ah, I've been!

 

[911paramedic]

Glock-17 with RONI kit 9mm

This looks like a nice setup. I'm guessing it's designed for law enforcement/military CQB stuff.

P.S. Who exactly is Pat, and why are we awaiting his/her approval?

 

[DaTT]

This looks like a nice setup. I'm guessing it's designed for law enforcement/military CQB stuff.

P.S. Who exactly is Pat, and why are we awaiting his/her approval?

Not sure who or what it was designed for, but it sure a hell of a lot of fun to shoot.

 

[Vic Vega]

Considering the FBI made their rule using ballistics gelatin and not a bunch of milk jugs filled with water lined up, I'm not really sure where he was going with his test.

The water jug test offers a consistent, easy to obtain and cheap testing material. BOT does most of their tests with water jugs for this reason. The water jug test isn't necessarily intended to be compared to performance against soft targets (people) but it offers the ability to compare results against different test platforms and offers testing standards.

That's all.

 

[Merad]

The only time I would call the Judge useful is if you're on a ranch or something and want a small gun to deal with snakes etc. As a self defense weapon? I don't know why you'd carry it by choice.

 

[shortylickens]

Yeah its already been proven many times a 410 pistol is NOT great for dropping a human.
But the Judge and most other 410 revolvers can also handle the 45 long Colt. And I have no idea what the tests on that show.

 

[DrPizza]

My thread has been hijacked....

Well, sort of. Your OP pretty much just listed a bunch of different guns with no other real comments, so that left everyone with no guiding direction on which way to go with the discussion, other than discussing the guns you fired.

That said, I can't believe you guys are so against the .410! I've used a .410 shotgun on a couple of occasions for hunting. And let me tell you, I have a whole box of .410 ammo that I think is perfect for home defense - in case I'm ever attacked by a gang of chipmunks. I figure the .410 will be sufficient to stop those chipmunks without doing too much damage to my floor or walls.

Unfortunately, it's only a single shot shotgun, so if I'm ever attacked by a gang of marauding squirrels, God help me, because I doubt I'll be able to reload fast enough to protect myself.

 

[vi edit]

That said, I can't believe you guys are so against the .410! I've used a .410 shotgun on a couple of occasions for hunting. And let me tell you, I have a whole box of .410 ammo that I think is perfect for home defense - in case I'm ever attacked by a gang of chipmunks. I figure the .410 will be sufficient to stop those chipmunks without doing too much damage to my floor or walls.

My favorite hunting gun when I was younger was a .410 & .22 over/under combo that was awsome for small game. Accuracy for distance, and buck shot for up close, quick movers. Loved it.

Wouldn't want to defend my home with a .410 though. I definitely wouldn't want to get hit by one...but I can think of much better combinations. I'm not really sure what the appeal of the "Judge" is other than it has an intimidating name and look.

 

[Merad]

Yeah its already been proven many times a 410 pistol is NOT great for dropping a human.
But the Judge and most other 410 revolvers can also handle the 45 long Colt. And I have no idea what the tests on that show.

Everything I've read is that the Judge is pretty much just mediocre with 45 LC since the bullet has to travel an inch plus before it engages the rifling. I'm sure it would have enough power but the accuracy is poor.

 

[BladeVenom]

No doubt about that. It's a short ranged gun.

 

[Fenixgoon]

my brother and i went shooting clays for a little today...we were both awful

 

[IcePickFreak]

The water jug test offers a consistent, easy to obtain and cheap testing material. BOT does most of their tests with water jugs for this reason. The water jug test isn't necessarily intended to be compared to performance against soft targets (people) but it offers the ability to compare results against different test platforms and offers testing standards.

That's all.

I agree with what you said, but in the video reviews posted in this thread, the guy is trying to apply the same rules to ballistics gel and the water jugs.

 

[Vic Vega]

I agree with what you said, but in the video reviews posted in this thread, the guy is trying to apply the same rules to ballistics gel and the water jugs.

Here's what BOT says about their water jugs vs. ballistic gel.

... tests have shown that the most effective ammo must penetrate at least 4 water jugs to reach the 12 inches of penetration into ballistic gelatin that is required by the FBI tests for effective ammunition. 24 inches of water will equal approximately 12 inches of penetration into ballistic gelatin or human flesh.

 

[ThatsABigOne]

I had great fun and am probably going to get my Firearms licence.

When I shot the civilian version of the AR-15, at 25 yds, I emptied the magazine in a nice small grouping in the targets head. I will put pics of my targets up later

What is a license?

 

[midwestfisherman]

Not a gimmick, a little hard to shoot but makes a very powerful defense weapon when loaded with a 45 long colt cartridge or .410 slug or a great snake charmer when loaded with .410 bird shot. The 45LC/.410 chambering in a handgun is nothing new and has been around for over 100 years. The 45LC cartridge was introduced in 1876 and the .410 shotgun shell came along around 1900 and was designed specifically to work in guns bored for 45's. I inherited a german made single shot break over pistol chambered in 45LC/.410 that was made in the late 1800's. I carried it in the boat with me while bass fishing and have blasted many cotton mouth water moccasins with it.

Another interesting tidbit about handguns in this caliber is that they get around laws regarding minimum length for shotguns because the barrels are rifled for the 45cal they are technically designated as rifles thus not subject to the laws regarding shotguns.

Not to mention that .410 with a 00 buck shot load will also make a formidable self defense load.

 

[Vic Vega]

Not to mention that .410 with a 00 buck shot load will also make a formidable self defense load.

With 3" shells out of a 20" shotgun, yeah, it's extremely formidable I agree.

2.5" shells (3 vs 5 pellets) out of a revolver with a spread the size of Wyoming? That's where people tend to disagree with what the Judge is capable of.

 

[irishScott]

What is a license?

What you need in Canada, where the OP is.

 

[irishScott]

With 3" shells out of a 20" shotgun, yeah, it's extremely formidable I agree.

2.5" shells (3 vs 5 pellets) out of a revolver with a spread the size of Wyoming? That's where people tend to disagree with what the Judge is capable of.

That's the thing, the judge can handle .45 LC, which has been around since the 19th century and is a very proven defensive round, even in FMJ. It was actually the basis for the .45 ACP, one of the most proven combat rounds of all time (American military issue handgun round from WWI through the first gulf war, still in use with some special forces).

So I'd say the judge is perfectly capable. I don't understand how the arguments about the defensive capabilities of .410 matter when you can just load the thing with .45 LC and be done with it.

 

[LTC8K6]

That's the thing, the judge can handle .45 LC, which has been around since the 19th century and is a very proven defensive round, even in FMJ. It was actually the basis for the .45 ACP, one of the most proven combat rounds of all time (American military issue handgun round from WWI through the first gulf war, still in use with some special forces).

So I'd say the judge is perfectly capable. I don't understand how the arguments about the defensive capabilities of .410 matter when you can just load the thing with .45 LC and be done with it.

There are much better defensive pistols. More effective, smaller, and more accurate.

The Judge simply isn't a good choice for either round. It's okay, and that's about it.

We have very good shotshells today for 38/357 or 44 caliber pistols. So even for snakes, the Judge is an unnecessary novelty.

There's no reason to buy a Judge, except that you just want one.

The 45LC is a poor choice for home defense because of it's tendency to over penetrate.

Their marketing dept is golden though. :biggrin:

They even got S & W to sell a copy.

 

[irishScott]

There are much better defensive pistols. More effective, smaller, and more accurate.

The Judge simply isn't a good choice for either round. It's okay, and that's about it.

We have very good shotshells today for 38/357 or 44 caliber pistols. So even for snakes, the Judge is an unnecessary novelty.

There's no reason to buy a Judge, except that you just want one.

The 45LC is a poor choice for home defense because of it's tendency to over penetrate.

Their marketing dept is golden though. :biggrin:

They even got S & W to sell a copy.

Penetration of a .45 LC JHP in ballistic gel:

Penetrates right up to FBI specs. Over-penetration not found, maybe if you're shooting FMJ. Granted it would over-penetrate if you missed, but even .22 LR will go through 3-4 walls before it stops, so I wouldn't call that much of an issue. Now if you want to argue that it's a revolver round and that autos are better due to ammo capacity et-al, that's another issue. Personally I think there are better options but I know I wouldn't want to face 6 shots of .45 LC.

 

[foghorn67]

Let me tell you, trap shooting with .410 bolt action shotguns ain't easy.