So I was listening to the Senate health care debate today on CSPAN . . .

[shira]

. . . and I came to an amazing realization:

When one of the Senators made extremist claims without any supporting information ("This bill will cause premiums to rapidly increase. It will destroy Medicare."), it was ALWAYS a Republican. And when a Senator made measured statements and backed them up with relevant quotes from a broad range of health care economists, it was ALWAYS a Democrat.

Democratic Senators were reserved and thoughtful. Republican Senators were shrill and self-righteous.

Does anyone with any intelligence at all believe this right-wing bullshit?

 

[PeshakJang]

This thread is definitely going places fast.

 

[Jhhnn]

Lots of people who are reasonably intelligent in other realms are pretty much brainwashed when it comes to politics. They're emotionally invested in lies built on lies, so, sadly, yeh, some believe it. Doesn't mean they're stupid, it means they're in denial. It closely follows the disease model of alcoholism and drug addiction, with a little bit of stockholm syndrome tossed into the mix....

 

[herkulease]

No where in the bill obama signed today or the fix it they are debating does anything stop the rise in premiums.

I don't see how premiums do not go up with insurance companies are forced to take on people who will incur a larger cost starting this year. Maybe you can enlighten me by showing me how premiums will not rise at a faster rate then they already do.

 

[Atreus21]

Funny, I thought the exact opposite.

strange how partisanship works, isn't it?

 

[Fear No Evil]

Well the beautiful thing about being a liberal is you can do something like this HC bill does, and if it fails, you simply say you need to spend MORE to fix it.. and if it fails you blame the insurance companies and say we need to go single payer.. and if it fails you say we need to spend more.. and if it fails you blame George Bush..

There's never any responsibility being a liberal.. just like the school system we just need to spend more. And if you don't agree your stupid.

 

[nageov3t]

I appreciate your amazingly unbiased and objective view :thumbsup:

 

[shira]

I appreciate your amazingly unbiased and objective view :thumbsup:

Well, I assume you've been listening to all that right-wing nonsense for years, so it's understandable that your intellectual development has lagged. But if you can remember to religiously read my posts - And Vic's and Moonbeams and Woolfe9999's too - you have an excellent chance of improving.

 

[cubby1223]

Does anyone with any intelligence at all believe this right-wing bullshit?

Says the "progressive". You didn't even have to type a word and we already know your opinion. Do you believe Pelosi when she says this bill will reduce the deficit by $1.3trillion?

 

[cubby1223]

Well, I assume you've been listening to all that right-wing nonsense for years, so it's understandable that your intellectual development has lagged. But if you can remember to religiously read my posts - And Vic's and Moonbeams and Woolfe9999's too - you have an excellent chance of improving.

Well you obviously haven't learned that this style of attack has not worked for pushing a political opinion on to others.

 

[Tom]

Yea, I watched it too.

Republicans, the new saviors of Medicare..LOL.

 

[nageov3t]

Well, I assume you've been listening to all that right-wing nonsense for years, so it's understandable that your intellectual development has lagged.

why would you assume that?

 

[shira]

Says the "progressive". You didn't even have to type a word and we already know your opinion. Do you believe Pelosi when she says this bill will reduce the deficit by $1.3trillion?

I don't have to believe Pelosi. Unlike the right-wing demagogues spewing their unsubstantiated claims on the Senate floor today, the $1.3 billion figure is actually based on a non-partisan analysis. Or haven't you heard of the CBO?

 

[shira]

why would you assume that?

Well, you indicated that you were impressed by my amazing objectivity and lack of bias. So you must be used to seeing extreme of bias. Ergo, I assumed you must watch Fox News.

 

[shira]

Yea, I watched it too.

Republicans, the new saviors of Medicare..LOL.

Republicans are big on reducing the size of government, except when someone actually tries to reduce the size of government.

 

[JoshGuru7]

Unlike the right-wing demagogues spewing their unsubstantiated claims on the Senate floor today, the $1.3 billion figure is actually based on a non-partisan analysis. Or haven't you heard of the CBO?

Two things you might want to consider unless you're just engaging in some partisan trolling:

1) The CBO analyzes projects based on assumptions that they are handed. The results largely depend on these assumptions which are usually highly partisan. I suspect you're probably allergic to hearing about shady dealings from the left, so for an example of this you can tolerate look at (Republican) Ryan's deficit eliminating proposal here:

www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10851/01-27-Ryan-Roadmap-Letter.pdf

It looks pretty good until you learn that this is with the assumption that the revenue portion of the plan generates 19% GDP in taxes. That is Ryan's assumption, yet the "CBO" result is favorable as a result of that assumption.

The same games have been played with the health care proposal. I'll let you look into the specifics if you're interested instead of highlighting examples you will disbelieve simply because they came from me.

2) The effect on the government's budget deficit is just not an issue when it comes to the larger economic picture (in spite of what everybody in congress and most posters here believe). It's a lot easier to estimate than trying to gauge the overall impact to the economy, but it's really just a drop in the bucket compared to the much more important issue of the overall economy.

 

[sciwizam]

I don't have to believe Pelosi. Unlike the right-wing demagogues spewing their unsubstantiated claims on the Senate floor today, the $1.3 billion figure is actually based on a non-partisan analysis. Or haven't you heard of the CBO?

I'll believe it when they actually find and cut the $500 billion waste and actually go through with the excise tax in 2018. I mean, they are so unpopular that they have to punt it to 2018, what's to stop them from punting it further down?

 

[Danube]

Two things you might want to consider unless you're just engaging in some partisan trolling:

1) The CBO analyzes projects based on assumptions that they are handed.

I believe the quote among congress (regarding CBO) is "garbage in- garbage out". Obama and Co sent a lot of garbage.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Funny, I thought the exact opposite.

strange how partisanship works, isn't it?

Not to belabor the OP's point but the GOP "Smear & Fear" concerning veterans heath care resulted in Secretary Gates, the Director of VA and the House of Reps unanimously noting yesterday there would be no reductions in services.

H.R. 4887: TRICARE Affirmation Act was passed yesterday 403 - 0.

Clearly, there are serious repercussions to the on-going Fear being spewed by the Cons. If you cannot acknowledge this you are deluding yourself.





--

 

[Ronstang]

Well the beautiful thing about being a liberal is you can do something like this HC bill does, and if it fails, you simply say you need to spend MORE to fix it.. and if it fails you blame the insurance companies and say we need to go single payer.. and if it fails you say we need to spend more.. and if it fails you blame George Bush..

There's never any responsibility being a liberal.. just like the school system we just need to spend more. And if you don't agree your stupid.

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[Tristicus]

So you read the bill fully and know exactly what is in it, right? So did Obama...wait...

Does anyone with any intelligence at all believe this left-wing bullshit?

 

[dmcowen674]

So I was listening to the Senate health care debate today on CSPAN

. . . and I came to an amazing realization:

When one of the Senators made extremist claims without any supporting information ("This bill will cause premiums to rapidly increase. It will destroy Medicare."), it was ALWAYS a Republican.

And when a Senator made measured statements and backed them up with relevant quotes from a broad range of health care economists, it was ALWAYS a Democrat.

Democratic Senators were reserved and thoughtful.
Republican Senators were shrill and self-righteous.

Does anyone with any intelligence at all believe this right-wing bullshit?

What's so amazing?

I've been pointing out the America hating ways of the Republicans for ten years especially their montra of if your rich you live and poor you die.

 

[boomerang]

Well, I assume you've been listening to all that right-wing nonsense for years, so it's understandable that your intellectual development has lagged. But if you can remember to religiously read my posts - And Vic's and Moonbeams and Woolfe9999's too - you have an excellent chance of improving.

Perhaps you could write a little handbook of sorts that could help those us that are less enlightened through this progressive journey? You know, something with short sayings and passages that would both inspire and guide us?

It wouldn't have to be very big or thick, in fact it would be better if it was small. You know something small and portable that we could carry with us at all times if we needed guidance or inspiration?

It might be easy to misplace so a bright color would make it easy to not forget. Maybe red?

 

[Mursilis]

Does anyone with any intelligence at all believe this right-wing bullshit?

Well, dummies like you fall for all the left-wing BS, so I guess you've established there is no shortage of suckers.

Oh, and posting in a throll thread!

 

[Tristicus]

What's so amazing?

I've been pointing out the America hating ways of the Republicans for ten years especially their montra of if your rich you live and poor you die.

How have you been pointing it out for 10 years if you voted for Bush as I hear?