So I may have killed my friend's kitten today...

[dug777]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: dug777
This is a party at his house, with his friends...a reasonable degree of care would of call be expected of everyone there, and that would inculde taking extra special care when moving about given teh knowledge they all had that the kitten was there...

Why should they? The cat isn't their property. If she doesn't want her property to be damaged, she shouldn't leave it in the middle of a ****** staircase.

I don't think it's worth arguing with you HB

That said, i'll try to reason with you. You are still liable for destroying or damaging things that are put in what you would consider to be a stupid place, if you had a reasonable knowledge that the object was there/might be there and you don't take reasonable care.

You can't just destroy things because you think they're in a daft place, i assume even your very basic knowledge of the law recognises that?

 

[masterxfob]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: masterxfob

Originally posted by: dug777

The way i see this, if someone through apalling judgement brought a baby to party & you trod on it & killed it, you'd be up for manslaughter at the least, despite the mother's complete lack of judgement.

BS BS BS BS BS

don't agree at all with that statement. so if someone brought their baby to disneyland, left the baby unattended, baby happens to wander into the spinning teacup attraction and gets run over, disneyland is liable?

Could you twist the scenario anymore? This is a party at his house, with his friends...a reasonable degree of care would of call be expected of everyone there, and that would inculde taking extra special care when moving about given teh knowledge they all had that the kitten was there...

In the case you mention, in this day and age i suspect Disney would be sued, and would be very likely to be held liable depending on the circumstances..

disneyland might get sued, but in no way would they be held liable. there would be witnesses, video surveillance, proving of the parents negligence.

also, if someone brought their child to one of my BBQ's, they had better take care of the kid. if the kid drowns in the swimming pool, is it my fault as well? should i have had a fence around my pool? a lifeguard? please, it's the parent/owner's responsibility, no one else's.

edit: let's just say that my dog scared the kid and that's how the kid fell in the pool. if it still my fault? my dogs fault?

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: bignateyk
pay her? for what? i've had to PAY other people to get the fvck rid of kittens. People dont buy kittens. Christ, you broke your fvcking ankle. Tell her you'll pay the vet bill if she'll pay your hospital bill. Otherwise, screw her, she should have been watching the damn thing, even if you said it could roam about.

Well the OP went from spraining it to breaking it in one pst, so i doubt he really did either It does help to pretend he did to get that self-righteous outrage going tho.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: masterxfob

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: masterxfob

Originally posted by: dug777

The way i see this, if someone through apalling judgement brought a baby to party & you trod on it & killed it, you'd be up for manslaughter at the least, despite the mother's complete lack of judgement.

BS BS BS BS BS

don't agree at all with that statement. so if someone brought their baby to disneyland, left the baby unattended, baby happens to wander into the spinning teacup attraction and gets run over, disneyland is liable?

Could you twist the scenario anymore? This is a party at his house, with his friends...a reasonable degree of care would of call be expected of everyone there, and that would inculde taking extra special care when moving about given teh knowledge they all had that the kitten was there...

In the case you mention, in this day and age i suspect Disney would be sued, and would be very likely to be held liable depending on the circumstances..

disneyland might get sued, but in no way would they be held liable. there would be witnesses, video surveillance, proving of the parents negligence.

also, if someone brought their child to one of my BBQ's, they had better take care of the kid. if the kid drowns in the swimming pool, is it my fault as well? should i have had a fence around my pool? a lifeguard? please, it's the parent/owner's responsibility, no one else's.[

No it is not It's also your responsibility as the host (ever heard of occupiers liability?). I'm not making this up to annoy you, i've actually spent teh last five years at law school

ESIT: regarding your edit, that's still your responsibility mate, in fact even more so that before

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: dug777
I don't think it's worth arguing with you HB

That said, i'll try to reason with you. You are still liable for destroying or damaging things that are put in what you would consider to be a stupid place, if you had a reasonable knowledge that the object was there/might be there and you don't take reasonable care.

You can't just destroy things because you think they're in a daft place, i assume even your very basic knowledge of the law recognises that?

How is he supposed have reasonable knowledge on where it is? Animals tend to move and small moving objects aren't very noticeable. It's even worse that it happened at a party where numerous people would be walking around drunk.

 

[AlienCraft]

You allowed it in the house, you let her set it loose, you let, you let.... Do you get that you gave permission?
Offer to go with her when she's ready and get another. Apologize and offer to end your own life.

Oh and :camera:'s ?? You know the unwritten rule.... mention females? Pics required... otherwise it's SHENS FOR YOU!

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: dug777
I don't think it's worth arguing with you HB

That said, i'll try to reason with you. You are still liable for destroying or damaging things that are put in what you would consider to be a stupid place, if you had a reasonable knowledge that the object was there/might be there and you don't take reasonable care.

You can't just destroy things because you think they're in a daft place, i assume even your very basic knowledge of the law recognises that?

How is he supposed have reasonable knowledge on where it is? Animals tend to move and small moving objects aren't very noticeable. It's even worse that it happened at a party where numerous people would be walking around drunk.

It's not that difficult to take reasonable care not to tread on a kitten (and in this case that is what the reasonable care would amount to), they're not invisible or anything YOu are expected to take a measure of care that a reasonable person would given the information they have. In this case he was entirely aware teh kitten was in his house, and so of course he & other partygoes should have taken extreme care not to tread on it, given as you say kittens are small and move quickly underfoot

 

[masterxfob]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
You allowed it in the house, you let her set it loose, you let, you let.... Do you get that you gave permission?
Offer to go with her when she's ready and get another. Apologize and offer to end your own life.

Oh and :camera:'s ?? You know the unwritten rule.... mention females? Pics required... otherwise it's SHENS FOR YOU!

so if you let me practice knife throwing at one of your dinner parties and one happened to find it's way in to someone's neck... would you be liable since you gave me permission? like hell, i'd still be the one that's fucked.

 

[thescreensavers]

maybe next time you'll turn on the light. Its not your fault its hers she let it roam around

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: dug777
It's not that difficult to take reasonable care not to tread on a kitten (and in this case that is what the reasonable care would amount to), they're not invisible or anything YOu are expected to take a measure of care that a reasonable person would given the information they have. In this case he was entirely aware teh kitten was in his house, and so of course he & other partygoes should have taken extreme care not to tread on it, given as you say kittens are small and move quickly underfoot

What is extreme care? Does he have to install kitten detecting sensors every six inches in the house? The stupid cat was probably on the close side of a stairstep (and thus blocked from view by the other steps) and was stepped on as a result.

 

[spaceghost21]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
It isn't your responsibility. It was hers.

But

for kitten

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: dug777
It's not that difficult to take reasonable care not to tread on a kitten (and in this case that is what the reasonable care would amount to), they're not invisible or anything YOu are expected to take a measure of care that a reasonable person would given the information they have. In this case he was entirely aware teh kitten was in his house, and so of course he & other partygoes should have taken extreme care not to tread on it, given as you say kittens are small and move quickly underfoot

What is extreme care? Does he have to install kitten detecting sensors every six inches in the house? The stupid cat was probably on the close side of a stairstep (and thus blocked from view by the other steps) and was stepped on as a result.

Without knowing the details of the event....

It sounds like he blundered down the stairs without a thought about the kitten from my reading of it, and i've yet to see stairs in a home that would hide one from you as you walked down looking where you were stepping, plus i don't know about you but i don't step from the deep inside of each step as i go down

If he didn't like the idea, it would have been easy enough to say to her, either hold the cat, lock it in a another room, or take it away EDIT: not that doing any of that, if she stayed and let teh cat roam free, would actually absolve you of your liability, unless she signed something to that effect But it would almost certainly get the damages reduced, iirc (it's been a while since i've done this kinda thing )

 

[sygyzy]

The best part about this story is that you guys BOTH own fax machines.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: sygyzy
The best part about this story is that you guys BOTH own fax machines.

:laugh: Awesome, i didn't notice that. Fax machines pwn

 

[masterxfob]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: dug777
It's not that difficult to take reasonable care not to tread on a kitten (and in this case that is what the reasonable care would amount to), they're not invisible or anything YOu are expected to take a measure of care that a reasonable person would given the information they have. In this case he was entirely aware teh kitten was in his house, and so of course he & other partygoes should have taken extreme care not to tread on it, given as you say kittens are small and move quickly underfoot

What is extreme care? Does he have to install kitten detecting sensors every six inches in the house? The stupid cat was probably on the close side of a stairstep (and thus blocked from view by the other steps) and was stepped on as a result.

Without knowing the details of the event....

It sounds like he blundered down the stairs without a thought about the kitten from my reading of it, and i've yet to see stairs in a home that would hide one from you as you walked down looking where you were stepping, plus i don't know about you but i don't step from the deep inside of each step as i go down

If he didn't like the idea, it would have been easy enough to say to her, either hold the cat, lock it in a another room, or take it away EDIT: not that doing any of that, if she stayed and let teh cat roam free, would actually absolve you of your liability, unless she signed something to that effect

got it, so every BBQ/party, make sure everyone signs a liability waiver before coming in.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: dug777
Without knowing the details of the event....

It sounds like he blundered down the stairs without a thought about the kitten from my reading of it, and i've yet to see stairs in a home that would hide one from you as you walked down looking where you were stepping, plus i don't know about you but i don't step from the deep inside of each step as i go down

If he didn't like the idea, it would have been easy enough to say to her, either hold the cat, lock it in a another room, or take it away

Of course I don't know the details. I'm making an assumption just like anyone else reading his post. To be honest I don't know how big a three month old kitten is, but can they really be all that big? The steps on my staircase are about six inches tall and almost a foot deep. That's plenty to hide something small. How I'm understanding his part about giving permission for it to roam is because the woman knew that it may piss on the floor or something. He didn't guarantee to her that the kitten would be safe from harm.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: dug777
Without knowing the details of the event....

It sounds like he blundered down the stairs without a thought about the kitten from my reading of it, and i've yet to see stairs in a home that would hide one from you as you walked down looking where you were stepping, plus i don't know about you but i don't step from the deep inside of each step as i go down

If he didn't like the idea, it would have been easy enough to say to her, either hold the cat, lock it in a another room, or take it away

Of course I don't know the details. I'm making an assumption just like anyone else reading his post. To be honest I don't know how big a three month old kitten is, but can they really be all that big? The steps on my staircase are about six inches tall and almost a foot deep. That's plenty to hide something small. How I'm understanding his part about giving permission for it to roam is because the woman knew that it may piss on the floor or something. He didn't guarantee to her that the kitten would be safe from harm.

Occupiers liability is a bitch sadly, and all the cases i've read put a ridiculous burden on the host/occupier. Certainly here in WA as a result of these cases, they've made some legal changes that mean liability waivers are actually worth something, to reduce insurance costs...

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: dug777Occupiers liability is a bitch sadly, and all the cases i've read put a ridiculous burden on the host/occupier. Certainly here in WA as a result of these cases, they've made some legal changes that mean liability waivers are actually worth something, to reduce insurance costs...

I'm not questioning how the law works. It's just that the law is bullshit in most cases and should not apply to this situation, IMO.

 

[Bryophyte]

I think that you both are equally to blame for what happened to the kitten, and perhaps she has some negligence with regard to your injury/medical bills. She showed VERY poor judgement bringing a little kitten to a party and you were aware the cat was roaming around the house and would naturally be underfoot. You gave her permission to let the kitty run around underfoot. You have to understand that just because something was an accident (unintentional), that doesn't relieve you of responsibility for what happened. I think that it would be fair for you to pay for half of her expenses (replacement of kitten plus vet bills.) I'm uncertain as to whether she would be liable for any portion of your medical bills regarding the fall.

Having said all that, I'd love to hear her side of the story. I've found that when one person tells about another person being irrational, hysterical and overreacting, the storyteller often turns out to have done something to elicit that response. The truth usually lies somewhere between the two stories.

 

[cherrytwist]

Backstory: I had invited a whole bunch of people to hang out at my condo, including a certain friend who had a three-month old kitten that she brought along since I suppose she wanted to show it off. Anyway, after the gals had given up admiring the thing she set it loose with my permission. A little while later I was headed down to the kitchen to grab a few more beers, admittedly not really watching where I was going, when I stepped on something soft and warm going down the stairs, stumbling and falling down the stairs headfirst, spraining my ankle.

You should retain a lawyer instead of posting on ATOT, negligence is a bitch.

You two deserve each other :beer:

 

[veggz]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: dug777
Without knowing the details of the event....

It sounds like he blundered down the stairs without a thought about the kitten from my reading of it, and i've yet to see stairs in a home that would hide one from you as you walked down looking where you were stepping, plus i don't know about you but i don't step from the deep inside of each step as i go down

If he didn't like the idea, it would have been easy enough to say to her, either hold the cat, lock it in a another room, or take it away

Of course I don't know the details. I'm making an assumption just like anyone else reading his post. To be honest I don't know how big a three month old kitten is, but can they really be all that big? The steps on my staircase are about six inches tall and almost a foot deep. That's plenty to hide something small. How I'm understanding his part about giving permission for it to roam is because the woman knew that it may piss on the floor or something. He didn't guarantee to her that the kitten would be safe from harm.

Occupiers liability is a bitch sadly, and all the cases i've read put a ridiculous burden on the host/occupier. Certainly here in WA as a result of these cases, they've made some legal changes that mean liability waivers are actually worth something, to reduce insurance costs...

I am aware of the terms of the law in these matters, but is it necessary to take such a strict legal perspective in the issue? Think about it practically: the girl showed up at my door with a kitten, and rule #1 at a get-together is that you never under any circumstances deny a girl entry into your home. Granted I wouldn't consider us good friends, but we were at least on good terms. Then when she asks if she can let it wander am I supposed to make her hang on to it for the remainder of the night? Again, ignoring the legal implications, this makes no sense and would make me look like a complete dick.

And for the record I did sprain my ankle, though I don't see what the fuss is. Either way I won't be walking for the next couple of weeks.

 

[secretanchitman]

her fault for letting her cat stay at your place where there is a party going on.

your fault for the responsibility of the cat. she did give it to you to take care of...

i say: split the bill/offer to pay for it somehow. console her. she must have been really attached to the cat.

 

[KingGheedora]

Scan the fax and post it please.

 

[Xylitol]

I would pay for the kitten
It's not like cats cost a lot, they spawn so fast that they're practically a disease

 

[mugs]

Watch where the ****** you're going