So has Obamacare worked? Has it not? Is it helping or hurting?

[TheSiege]

I know there are still parts of it that have not been implemented and maybe it will take years, if not decades, to see its real effect. But with the recent report of medical care rising at a slow rate it would at least suggest that, if nothing else, hasn't had a negative affect. I know individuals will talk about their premiums going up, but thats not a real indicator, that has more to do with the company you work for. My company has to follow the same rules and I pay $20 a week for me and my kids for medical and dental and 90/10 coverage and no deductible.
And clearly it hasn't brought the economy to its knees. So could Obamacare be a long term success? Does it seem to be headed that way?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Only $20/week! Wow! Your company is subsidizing your insurance big time. I'm not sure how (or if) you'll be affected by Obamacare though. I'd be interested to know.

 

[Texashiker]

I work closely with an outreach program for people who do not have health insurance.

Nothing has changed.

People are still being told to either sign up on medicare or do without.

The medically under served are still under served.

 

[mshan]

"The gains are beginning to shift the terms of the debate over the health care law. Under the law, businesses with 50-plus full-time-equivalent workers must offer insurance to people working 30 hours a week beginning in 2015. That mandate, originally slated for 2014, has not deterred hiring as feared, some economists now say.

As more data come in, the law's impact can't be seen in hiring statistics, says Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Analytics.

"I was expecting to see it. I was looking for it, and it's not there,'' says Zandi, whose firm manages ADP's surveys of overall private-sector job creation. If the Affordable Care Act "were causing a drop, you would see meaningful slowing.''


http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/08/20/small-business-hiring/2662407/

Ultimately, though, I will view Obamacare as a success or failure by two simple metrics: whether it gets inflation in health care costs under control (sadly this is now just keeping inflation to about the rate of growth of economy, I believe), and getting much better bang for the buck so we can at least be competitive globally with countries that have much more effective health care delivery systems.

 

[TheSiege]

Only $20/week! Wow! Your company is subsidizing your insurance big time. I'm not sure how (or if) you'll be affected by Obamacare though. I'd be interested to know.

Its free if you are single, and its about $45 a week for you, your kids, and a spouse. I have no spouse so its cheaper. Actually, I pay less than $20 a week. Its $80 a month or $960 a year, so just less than $20 a week.

 

[Genx87]

Its free if you are single, and its about $45 a week for you, your kids, and a spouse. I have no spouse so its cheaper. Actually, I pay less than $20 a week. Its $80 a month or $960 a year, so just less than $20 a week.

And what does your company pay?

 

[Texashiker]

Only $20/week! Wow! Your company is subsidizing your insurance big time.

Aren't we supposed to start paying taxes on that subsidization starting next year?

 

[boomerang]

getting much better bang for the buck so we can at least be competitive globally with countries that have much more effective health care delivery systems.

That's an interesting statement. So it's important for us to implement the cost savings measures other nations have done and to not just match them but beat them? Denying care is very cost-effective.

You should read the counter to the World Health Report 2000 below.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/the-worst-study-ever/

 

[fskimospy]

I work closely with an outreach program for people who do not have health insurance.

Nothing has changed.

People are still being told to either sign up on medicare or do without.

The medically under served are still under served.

You realize that none of the provisions that deal with that have gone into effect yet, right?

 

[fskimospy]

The most important provisions haven't been 'turned on' yet, so it's much too early to see how effective it will be. Further complicating that is the fact that some states are attempting to sabotage implementation, so in the future it will be important to look at individual state outcomes in addition to national ones.

 

[piasabird]

O'Bammacare has done about nothing so far unless you are paying the O'Bammacare taxes. Have the taxes even kicked in yet? Since O'bammacare stole money from Medicare it probably has some effect out there, but I have not seen it do anything except raise insurance premiums.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Its free if you are single, and its about $45 a week for you, your kids, and a spouse. I have no spouse so its cheaper. Actually, I pay less than $20 a week. Its $80 a month or $960 a year, so just less than $20 a week.

Can you please identify the provider and at least the industrial sector of your company.
They must be heavily subsidizing the policy or the policy is weak (hopefully the former).

 

[piasabird]

Obammacare coverage has not even started yet. At this point I can not even afford insurance for my wife who is unemployed. So I guess my wife will be socked with a tax/penalty. There is not even any kind of way to check what the prices will be till october. Everything is just speculation at this point.

 

[werepossum]

Very little in this world is either all good or all bad, and the net effect can be very hard to distinguish. It's hurt me - we went to a health savings account plan a few years ago when conventional health care just became too expensive for our little company and Obamacare arbitrarily changed our out-of-pocket (before insurance begins to pay anything) from $2,700 to $3,700. I also know several people whose hours have been cut from 30+ hours to 25 hours to avoid Obamacare - although this is in my opinion a losing battle for the company. Obamacare was all about empowering the government and the bureaucracy can easily decide that 20 hours is the new full time, or even that ALL employees must be furnished with health care. Even free health care. Trying to avoid such programs is difficult in the long run, or at least unless one has FOB status and can get waivers. And Obamacare is bad for employees whose employers simply cannot afford to provide insurance and either drop it and just pay the penalties, or simply go Tango Uniform. (To a large degree these jobs will be replaced almost one-for-one with jobs in larger and/or more profitable companies, probably almost one-for-one, except for low end manufacturing which is hanging by threads where it's not long since departed.)

On the other hand, it's a boon for people who were otherwise uninsurable, and it should help lower health insurance costs (with the caveat that its mandates will inevitably increase costs) for individuals. And it MAY be helpful for those low wage workers who technically had insurance, but of very low value. Either their employers must step up, or their employers will drop insurance and the workers will be subsidized into decent insurance. Or they'll lose their jobs and have Medicaid - but I'm betting that since almost all competitors will face the same expenses, once waivers get too difficult/expensive to purchase employers who now provide crap insurance will provide the mandated good insurance unless they are competing with third world labor.

It's overall effect won't be apparent for a decade or so, but by current estimates it will add more than a trillion per decade to our deficit. Personally I think its focus is as a short term program designed to destroy private health insurance and usher in single payer government health care, and if I am correct, then the deficits will only last for a couple decades before our private insurance system has been destroyed. Then the decision will be whether to run much larger deficits providing "free" health care, or to run the same large deficits and manage costs through limiting care. Given that everything valuable which costs time and treasure is inherently rationed, that won't necessarily be that different from what most of us have now, assuming it is intelligently implemented. (At which point air travel will have become quite dangerous due to aerial porcine excursions, but it IS possible. Our bureaucrats and politicians can't be that much worse than Canada's.)

 

[TheSiege]

Can you please identify the provider and at least the industrial sector of your company.
They must be heavily subsidizing the policy or the policy is weak (hopefully the former).

The company I work for is call Mckinstry. They have a large construction sector in the Seattle area, and as far as I know, they are all Union. I work in facilities sector, we are not union, although I wish we were. We facilitate Data centers in, Prineville OR, NC, Arizona, Colorado, Cupertino, and Utah, where I am. My provider is First health/ Health Comp and I believe the dental is delta. But I am not 100%. I had rotator cuff surgery in April, I payed about 700 bucks including PT and I didn't even reach my maximum out of pocket for the year which is 1000. The coverage is fairly standard, but the dental has almost everything covered at 80% except for a few major things and orthodontia which is allotted 1500 per lifetime. And starting wage where I work is about $25 an hour and tops out about $32 if you aren't a supervisor. Plus 128 hours of PTO and they pay for your gym membership and give you a company phone (iPhone).

 

[piasabird]

What kind of crappy insurance costs $80 a Month? That must have like a $7,000 deductable that you have to pay if you get sick. What is the point of insurance that does not pay for anything?

 

[Pulsar]

The most important provisions haven't been 'turned on' yet, so it's much too early to see how effective it will be. Further complicating that is the fact that some states are attempting to sabotage implementation, so in the future it will be important to look at individual state outcomes in addition to national ones.

Are they attempting to sabotage it, or are they exercising their rights? There IS a dividing line between the Federal Government's rights versus the states. I know it doesn't fit into your view of everything, but until the Supreme court rules, there's no clear right or wrong.

 

[Incorruptible]

obamacare hasn't worked at all. They have already had to delay the mandate for businesses which shows the hypocrisy of obama.

 

[TheSiege]

What kind of crappy insurance costs $80 a Month? That must have like a $7,000 deductable that you have to pay if you get sick. What is the point of insurance that does not pay for anything?

I have NO deductible. $1000 max out of pocket. Some people just work for good companies. Its private so they don't need to placate to stockholders.

 

[boomerang]

Earlier this month I spent a week with a family from Canada while on vacation on the Eastern shores of Michigan. My wife's huge family, the Canadian couple and their brood have spent that same week there for nearly 20 years. They told me the same thing they've told me for the last five or six years - we don't want a healthcare systems that mirrors theirs.

I expect that the whole shebang will be put on hold for political reasons (although it won't be spun that way). It's going to have far, far too much of a negative effect on some elections coming up. Then, whomever assumes power will be saddled with implementing what is "the law" and they will fail and be blamed.

Too complex, too burdensome and nobody can grasp the complexities of it. History will see it as an example of the overreach of government with a side order of the inefficiencies of too large a government. And then there's that IRS involvement... :whiste:

 

[Juddog]

Earlier this month I spent a week with a family from Canada while on vacation on the Eastern shores of Michigan. My wife's huge family, the Canadian couple and their brood have spent that same week there for nearly 20 years. They told me the same thing they've told me for the last five or six years - we don't want a healthcare systems that mirrors theirs.

I expect that the whole shebang will be put on hold for political reasons (although it won't be spun that way). It's going to have far, far too much of a negative effect on some elections coming up. Then, whomever assumes power will be saddled with implementing what is "the law" and they will fail and be blamed.

Too complex, too burdensome and nobody can grasp the complexities of it. History will see it as an example of the overreach of government with a side order of the inefficiencies of too large a government. And then there's that IRS involvement... :whiste:

If looking at the Canadian system versus having no healthcare at all in America, then the Canadian system wins out every time.

 

[mshan]

This is just from memory when the debates over health care reform were taking place, but weren't we supposed to be modeled after the Swiss system, not socialized medicine in English or Canadian sense?

Doesn't help that instead of really trying to write best laws possible, wing nuts in Congress keep trying to repeal it, and let lobbyists for insurance companies write all laws without creating any sort of outcry on mainstream media.

 

[boomerang]

This is just from memory when the debates over health care reform were taking place, but weren't we supposed to be modeled after the Swiss system, not socialized medicine in English or Canadian sense?

Doesn't help that instead of really trying to write best laws possible, wing nuts in Congress keep trying to repeal it, and let lobbyists for insurance companies write all laws.

Well, let's assume "wing nuts" in Congress did write some good laws that improved on the legislation that's trying to be implemented today. We must also assume that they passed the Senate and Obama did not veto them. BTW, these are very legitimate concerns, but we must make assumptions for the sake of argument.

Right now, with no authority to do so, the executive branch, with the apparent blessing of Congress is delaying and postponing portions of the massive healthcare bill. They are selectively enforcing some provisions and selectively postponing some provisions with no legal authority to do so. Nowhere in the bill (that I know of) is there a provision for implementing it in a selective fashion. No outcry from the left, too little outcry from the right, no outcry from the media and yes, that last one is a joke.

So, assuming "wing nuts" did wonderful things, what would ensure the implementation of said wonderful things? We are experiencing first hand a government that no longer answers to anyone but themselves. It is a far bigger issue than healthcare, immigration reform, drones and new puppies in the White House to name just a few of the topics of the day.

While the public is distracted with the promise of shiny new toys, our representative form of government is being further eroded and I would make the argument that it's happening at a breathtaking pace. It may be time to decide what is and what isn't important.

 

[werepossum]

The company I work for is call Mckinstry. They have a large construction sector in the Seattle area, and as far as I know, they are all Union. I work in facilities sector, we are not union, although I wish we were. We facilitate Data centers in, Prineville OR, NC, Arizona, Colorado, Cupertino, and Utah, where I am. My provider is First health/ Health Comp and I believe the dental is delta. But I am not 100%. I had rotator cuff surgery in April, I payed about 700 bucks including PT and I didn't even reach my maximum out of pocket for the year which is 1000. The coverage is fairly standard, but the dental has almost everything covered at 80% except for a few major things and orthodontia which is allotted 1500 per lifetime. And starting wage where I work is about $25 an hour and tops out about $32 if you aren't a supervisor. Plus 128 hours of PTO and they pay for your gym membership and give you a company phone (iPhone).

Quality company.

Earlier this month I spent a week with a family from Canada while on vacation on the Eastern shores of Michigan. My wife's huge family, the Canadian couple and their brood have spent that same week there for nearly 20 years. They told me the same thing they've told me for the last five or six years - we don't want a healthcare systems that mirrors theirs.

SNIP

To be fair though, this depends totally on where you are and what's wrong with you. Canada has some drastic health care issues, but most Canadians with whom I've spoken (admittedly a small sample) are reasonably happy.

If looking at the Canadian system versus having no healthcare at all in America, then the Canadian system wins out every time.

This is true. To the approximately 15% with little or no health insurance, Obamacare will be a G-dsend. It remains to be seen whether they can be lifted up or the rest of us will be dragged down.

 

[fskimospy]

Earlier this month I spent a week with a family from Canada while on vacation on the Eastern shores of Michigan. My wife's huge family, the Canadian couple and their brood have spent that same week there for nearly 20 years. They told me the same thing they've told me for the last five or six years - we don't want a healthcare systems that mirrors theirs.

I expect that the whole shebang will be put on hold for political reasons (although it won't be spun that way). It's going to have far, far too much of a negative effect on some elections coming up. Then, whomever assumes power will be saddled with implementing what is "the law" and they will fail and be blamed.

Too complex, too burdensome and nobody can grasp the complexities of it. History will see it as an example of the overreach of government with a side order of the inefficiencies of too large a government. And then there's that IRS involvement... :whiste:

The exact same arguments were made about Medicare. Now the Republican Party paints themselves as huge defenders of Medicare because it is so popular. Honestly I think the real fear for conservatives isn't the Death of Freedom or the IRS kicking doors down, it's that the ACA is going to work and people are going to like it because then Republicans are going to have to get on board. How do you make the switch to defending something you derided as OMGSOCIALISM before? Not so easily.