So Darren Wilson has a clean record?

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WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
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And you don't think that Brown's criminal activities immediately prior to being confronted by the officer might have impacted how Brown reacted at all?

You don't think that a person who had engaged in criminal activity 10 min prior might be more likely to engage in more criminal activity than a randomly selected person? Perhaps Brown turned over a new life on the way home from robbing the store and decided to become an upstanding citizen?

Facing a police officer with raised hands? Strange in a department brimming with tactical equipment there is not a single dash cam?
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,473
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The Ferguson police have indicated that there were no disciplinary reports in Darren Wilson's file.

What Chief Jackson didn't tell anyone at any of the press conferences was that, until he took over in 2010, use of force complaints were not kept in an officer's personnel file.

Jen Hayden wrote about the Henry Davis case on Friday: Ferguson police beat a man and then charged him with 'destruction of property' for bloody uniforms

What I found interesting in the Daily Beast article by Michael Daly, was the way use of force complaints were treated by the Ferguson PD.

In brief, Henry Davis was arrested in Ferguson on Sept 9, 2009, when he took the wrong exit off of the highway and pulled over to wait for a heavy rain to lighten. He was arrested in a case of mistaken identity, beaten by four officers in his cell, after they knew he was innocent, and then charged with damaging police property i.e. he got blood on their uniforms. BTW, first they handcuffed him. Then they beat him.

When Henry Davis' lawyer, James Schottel tried to find out what type of record the officers who beat his client had, he uncovered a can of worms.

Schottel got another unpleasant surprise when he sought the use-of-force history of the officers involved. He learned that before a new chief took over in 2010 the department had a surprising protocol for non-fatal use-of-force reports.
“The officer himself could complete it and give it to the supervisor for his approval,” the prior chief, Thomas Moonier, testified in a deposition. “I would read it. It would be placed in my out basket, and my secretary would probably take it and put it with the case file.”

No copy was made for the officer’s personnel file.

Daily Beast - August 15, 2014

No investigation. Just an officer writing up his excuse. The excuse went in the case file and nothing went on the officer's "record."
Chief Jackson changed that policy when he took up the reins of the department in 2010, but a policy change that fundamentally alters the long term relationship between the police and the citizens they are sworn to serve and protect, would probably take a while to implement. If it could, in fact, be implemented.

According to his deposition in the Davis case, Jackson instituted a system that required all complaints to cross his desk and be "assigned a number in an internal affairs log." There is no indication when this new system was begun and/or how effective it was. It should be interesting to see if any mention is made of this in regards to Officer Wilson, if and when he is ever charged and tried.

The fact that Officer Wilson had no disciplinary record is different from the fact that he has no record of using excessive force. It could mean that he was not disciplined for use of force. Or that he never used excessive force. But the information that is coming out on him, in drips and drabs, makes me wonder. He was at best an unfeeling, foul-mouthed asshole according to the report of one woman who had an earlier encounter with him.

But while the police department is trying very hard to portray Darren Wilson as a good cop, we should keep in mind the history of a department that had officers commit perjury to claim that another innocent victim bled on their uniforms. Police Officer John Beaird, Police Officer Christopher Pillarick, and Police Officer Michael White were all named in the Daily Beast article as signing the complaint and then denying the facts in their depositions.

And don't forget that the policewoman, Kim Tihen, who straddled Mr. Davis and cuffed him before her fellow officers beat him badly enough to cause a concussion, is now a member of the City Council of Ferguson, as reported here by a member of Daily Kos.
So, even by your wacko thought process this concern that use of force complaints weren't retained in the officer's file, only applies to 2 (the first 2) years of service by Wilson. The chief changed the process in 2010, Wilson has 6 years service so he came on in 2008.

Assuming that (bad) officers become more violent over time and not less, there's a strong possibility that there's nothing to see here and you're as stupid as McOwned.

We need a catchy nickname for you. Daikatana?
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
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Well you know I just hate every cop.. sigh.. just an old damned cop hater I am.. :rolleyes:

You know, not that my points were there and valid or anything..

Oh, I know! You were just trying to inform us about the record keeping of the Fergusson police department prior to 2010 and a previous case where cops did something bad in that precinct. It was not an attempt to discredit Darren Wilson's clean record at all! I mean, you didn't even try to imply his clean record might not have actually be clean, if it weren't for how they reported. Right?


Um... no. You didn't do any of that.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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It has been reported that the officer did no know about the burglary, and then the report came across the radio with the description of the suspects. The suspects may have heard the report and then attacked the police officer. The officer was treated for an orbital fracture. That refers to the bones around the eye socket. Further evidence the suppossed victims attacked the officer. The family knew about the scuffle with the police officer when they released the results of the autopsy, but did not say anything.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
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It has been reported that the officer did no know about the burglary, and then the report came across the radio with the description of the suspects. The suspects may have heard the report and then attacked the police officer. The officer was treated for an orbital fracture. That refers to the bones around the eye socket. Further evidence the suppossed victims attacked the officer. The family knew about the scuffle with the police officer when they released the results of the autopsy, but did not say anything.

Even if the officer didn't know about the burglary, the "victim" damn sure did. If I just robbed a store and 10 minutes later saw a cop, would I actually believe it was for an entirely different matter? Of course not!
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
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Facing a police officer with raised hands? Strange in a department brimming with tactical equipment there is not a single dash cam?

Well that and you have all the officers who took off their name badges and ID tags. Several journalists who were roughed up and arrested yesterday kept asking for their names and ID and they didn't give it to them. The journalists were complaining about this.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
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Well that and you have all the officers who took off their name badges and ID tags. Several journalists who were roughed up and arrested yesterday kept asking for their names and ID and they didn't give it to them. The journalists were complaining about this.

I wasn't aware it was required for an officer to give you his name when arresting you. Would you like to require them to submit a full background check when serving a warrant? You know, just in case who knows what happens?
 

Riparian

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
294
0
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No I don't support profiling, nor do I support releasing little bits of info, a la Darrel Issa style, to paint someone/incident in a certain light. However, it's too late, one side has already broken that "rule" and I feel that the otherside is completely within their right to now do the same.

I think you're misinterpreting my point. I would agree that if the police department releases information about bad behavior by the suspect, then they are subjecting themselves to release of previous bad behavior by the officer. The article in the OP, however, is playing a dangerous game in implying that other officers' abuse of power should be attributed to Officer Wilson's actions. Also, the OP's article is trying to blatantly manipulate the reader into believing there was a history of misconduct by stating that because there could be issues in misconduct reporting that we should not discount the possibility of misconduct. Like I said in my OP, that would be the equivalent of saying that just because you haven't been caught committing a crime doesn't mean you aren't a criminal. While this may be true, it is not how any justice system should work. We do not go around just assuming the worst because it is convenient.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,194
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I think you're misinterpreting my point. I would agree that if the police department releases information about bad behavior by the suspect, then they are subjecting themselves to release of previous bad behavior by the officer. The article in the OP, however, is playing a dangerous game in implying that other officers' abuse of power should be attributed to Officer Wilson's actions. Also, the OP's article is trying to blatantly manipulate the reader into believing there was a history of misconduct by stating that because there could be issues in misconduct reporting that we should not discount the possibility of misconduct. Like I said in my OP, that would be the equivalent of saying that just because you haven't been caught committing a crime doesn't mean you aren't a criminal. While this may be true, it is not how any justice system should work. We do not go around just assuming the worst because it is convenient.

I think releasing a partial recording of the store tape is equivilant of trying to manipulate the viewer.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-show

I haven't seen this video but it's content is not the point, the point is that not releasing all the facts is pretty dishonest. When the defense is already trying to sway public opinion, a counter of that is perfectly acceptable. I'd prefer both sides not do either but I'm not going to recommend one side tie their hands just because what the other side did was wrong.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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So oldgamer makes the point a clean record could be the result of bad record keeping in a depart with a record of proven bad behavior. Oh! The butthurt is strong among the cop lovers here. Your blind eye must be turning at high speed now. Whizzzz!
Which would not surprise me in the least..... mega butthurt for the cop supporters!!
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
I think releasing a partial recording of the store tape is equivilant of trying to manipulate the viewer.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-show

I haven't seen this video but it's content is not the point, the point is that not releasing all the facts is pretty dishonest. When the defense is already trying to sway public opinion, a counter of that is perfectly acceptable. I'd prefer both sides not do either but I'm not going to recommend one side tie their hands just because what the other side did was wrong.

If people are saying the video released has been edited to paint Brown in a bad light, then where is the video that they are able to compare it to?

Or is it because they want to defend Brown's actions?

The same thing happened with the Treyvon Martin case.

As more information comes to light; it is claimed to be doctored and/or irrelevant because it goes against the image that was originally portrayed.

And such attitudes can lead to poor judgments and aggressive actions.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
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I think releasing a partial recording of the store tape is equivilant of trying to manipulate the viewer.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-show

I haven't seen this video but it's content is not the point, the point is that not releasing all the facts is pretty dishonest. When the defense is already trying to sway public opinion, a counter of that is perfectly acceptable. I'd prefer both sides not do either but I'm not going to recommend one side tie their hands just because what the other side did was wrong.

According to the NYT, Dorian Johnson (Brown's friend, who was with him at the store) has admitted they stole the cigars. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us/shooting-accounts-differ-as-holder-schedules-visit.html Are we supposed to believe the speculation of "crooksandliars.com" over the word of the man who was actually involved in committing the crime?
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,473
2
0
I think releasing a partial recording of the store tape is equivilant of trying to manipulate the viewer.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-show

I haven't seen this video but it's content is not the point, the point is that not releasing all the facts is pretty dishonest. When the defense is already trying to sway public opinion, a counter of that is perfectly acceptable. I'd prefer both sides not do either but I'm not going to recommend one side tie their hands just because what the other side did was wrong.
Sounds like someone is stuck in the liberal echo chamber...
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I think releasing a partial recording of the store tape is equivilant of trying to manipulate the viewer.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/ferguson-cops-busted-new-video-seems-show

I haven't seen this video but it's content is not the point, the point is that not releasing all the facts is pretty dishonest. When the defense is already trying to sway public opinion, a counter of that is perfectly acceptable. I'd prefer both sides not do either but I'm not going to recommend one side tie their hands just because what the other side did was wrong.

Are you trying to suggest that the media only releases clips from longer videos to paint a certain picture? Yeah! That's never been done before. I mean, UC-Davis incident was only a bunch of cops running up to kid sitting down and pepper spraying them. There is no way there was 20 minutes of footage before that where an angry mob surrounds and threatens police officers who were only there to apprehend people who were illegally camping. Nope, didn't happen.


The content of this video, minutes before this altercation is important. It helps paint the picture of the mindset of Brown. He had just committed a robbery. He isn't going to be all cool when an officer (who didn't even know about it, apparently) rolls up on him.

But, of course, since he was unarmed (something an officer can't know before arresting and searching you) and black, his character and mindset at the time isn't allowed to be taken into consideration.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
Did you guys even watch the video?

Please link to the "unedited" video?

I have only seen the one that was referenced within the other thread. If there was a second, I apologize for missing it and will review if you can point it out.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,194
14,863
136
Please link to the "unedited" video?

I have only seen the one that was referenced within the other thread. If there was a second, I apologize for missing it and will review if you can point it out.

It's on the website I linked to.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
According to the NYT, Dorian Johnson (Brown's friend, who was with him at the store) has admitted they stole the cigars. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us/shooting-accounts-differ-as-holder-schedules-visit.html Are we supposed to believe the speculation of "crooksandliars.com" over the word of the man who was actually involved in committing the crime?
Well, at least that part is settled.

Hard to understand how Brown could end up 7 or 8 feet from the cop given that he ran before Wilson got out of the car unless Brown did in fact charge him. Or if Brown stopped and turned and Wilson kept advancing - and firing.