• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

So before the war everyone loved the United States?

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,863
10
81
Today I had a discussion with a liberal friend who kept telling me the whole world now hates us because of the war. We thumbed our nose at what the "world" wanted and we will now pay the price.. I see it around this forum all the time and on TV talk shows.. I just want to know when did the world ever give a damn about us? Germany hasn't agreed with us on much of anything since the wall fell, France has ALWAYS hated us, Russia is NOT our ally, and the rest of the world only acts like our friend to receive aid and other welfare from us..

I really think liberals and the like need a new argument..
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,212
126
Who loved the French, Germans, or Russians before the war? Few. Like us.

The real world is like this. Countries do not have "friends". Friends go to parties, have a drink, talk about cars and such. Countries have interests. Sometimes these interests align, sometimes not. If they depart significantly they cause friction. Further, you have sanctions. Further yet, they cause war.

In some countries, many people do hate us. In the rest, a great many dislike us. Some indeed do hate. The US has demonstrated a departure from previous policies with a war as the result. What people in those countries think is based on that change to a large degree. If you want to start a war, expect negative feelings.

Teh way o' teh World.
 

rbV5

Lifer
Dec 10, 2000
12,632
0
0
I just want to know when did the world ever give a damn about us?
Oh, about the same time we feined our giving a damn about the people of IRAQ...how ironic hugh?
 

Macro2

Diamond Member
May 20, 2000
4,874
0
0
RE:"Today I had a discussion with a liberal friend who kept telling me the whole world now hates us because of the war."

Good, it's always best to know where you stand. Most of the time the rest of the world just bitch slaps the USA while accepting their hand out.
 

ConclamoLudus

Senior member
Jan 16, 2003
572
0
0
The more you stick your neck out, the more people will try to take shots at you. I think we are arrogant (on the world stage), but I don't think that we are bad people because of it, and I think we have cause to be arrogant at times. We've got a lot of people. People who buy things. People who buy things from all over the world. Does it make it right? No. But everyone loves money. If you don't like us, why would you want to do business with us? I don't waste time hanging around people I don't like.
 

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,863
10
81
So why then does everyone opposed to the war or any other choice of the administration make us out to be more isolated on the world stage? Watch any talk-show and that's what I hear, again and again..
Why doesn't anyone challenge this in the media?
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
ofcorse there was resentment before, but there was also a great deal of respect from many countries, all that is slowly fading away, this is what you should be worried about.

This is no on and off state.
 

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,863
10
81
Czar

Who respected us? Not even our neighbors to the north respected us.. Envied us yes, but never respected.. To almost the whole world we've been thought of as gun toting thugs who care nothing except our well being.. I think they might have been right. :)
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
nevermind.. found the poll, just googled it :p
http://www.iht.com/articles/98398.html

quite a long read
few quotes
The poll found that 83 percent of Turks now have an unfavorable opinion of the United States, up from 55 percent last summer.
The swing was even sharper in Indonesia, where Islamic radicalism has been rising since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in New York and Washington.

While 75 percent had a favorable opinion of the United States in 2000, 83 percent now have an unfavorable view. Similar levels of animosity hold sway in the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.
Among the French, who took an uncharacteristically univocal stand in opposing the war, favorable opinion of the United States has recovered to 43 percent - up from what Pew describes as the "abysmal" level of 31 percent in March, but well below the 63 percent favorable rating of last summer.

The Germans, who joined the French at the head of Europe's anti-war front, also remain wary of the United States, with 45 percent having a favorable opinion, up from 25 percent in March but down from 61 percent in the summer of 2002.
Only 29 percent of Americans now say they have a very favorable or somewhat favorable view of France, down from 79 percent in February 2002. And just 44 percent of Americans take a favorable view of Germany now - a dramatic plunge from 83 percent in February 2002.
Among the West European allies, favorable opinion of the United States is strongest by far in Britain, America's chief partner in the war despite considerable domestic opposition to the cooperation provided by Prime Minister Tony Blair. Positive views among the British have bounced back to 70 percent, up from 48 percent in March.

Favorable opinion among the allies is weakest in Spain, where the government ignored overwhelming popular opposition to the war and backed the United States and Britain.

Only 38 percent of Spaniards now have a positive opinion of the United States - a big increase, however, from 14 percent in March.

The hostility in Spain is not limited to U.S. policies but extends to Americans as people - fewer than half have a positive impression. But approval of "the American people" remains solid in France, where 58 percent have a favorable view, Germany (67 percent), Italy (77 percent, up 3 points since last summer) and Britain (80 percent).
alot more in the article
 

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,863
10
81
Czar, those polls are just plain stupid...

The swing was even sharper in Indonesia, where Islamic radicalism has been rising since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in New York and Washington.

While 75 percent had a favorable opinion of the United States in 2000, 83 percent now have an unfavorable view. Similar levels of animosity hold sway in the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.

 

JZilla

Senior member
Feb 11, 2003
630
0
0
I don't hate you (danish). I, even though I am only 27, am one of the people thinking about what the us has done for europe. You liberated us from the nazis and you helped after the war (WWII). This was the danish pm primary reason for supporting the war in Iraq, and I do agree with him. He said that you must help old allies, and I must admit that I am proud of having a pm that says that kind of stuff.

But, if there are no nasty weapons to be found in Iraq, I do feel that the us has mislead the world. Then it would have been better just to say that you wanted to free the iraqi people from a evil dictator. But you can't help to think about oil, I do seriously hope that oil is not the case, because then I will be more than disapointed.
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,824
0
76
Originally posted by: IamDavid
Czar, those polls are just plain stupid...

The swing was even sharper in Indonesia, where Islamic radicalism has been rising since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in New York and Washington.

While 75 percent had a favorable opinion of the United States in 2000, 83 percent now have an unfavorable view. Similar levels of animosity hold sway in the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.

Ha! Whatever facts you don't like want to believe are "just stupid". :)

Just cover your ears and scream "Nya nya nya nya nya....I can't hear you!"
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,929
3,735
126
Bush is an international embarrassment. He makes the whole world cringe. He is also a disaster.
 

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,863
10
81
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: IamDavid
Czar, those polls are just plain stupid...

The swing was even sharper in Indonesia, where Islamic radicalism has been rising since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in New York and Washington.

While 75 percent had a favorable opinion of the United States in 2000, 83 percent now have an unfavorable view. Similar levels of animosity hold sway in the Palestinian Authority and Jordan.

Ha! Whatever facts you don't like want to believe are "just stupid". :)

Just cover your ears and scream "Nya nya nya nya nya....I can't hear you!"
I believe they are stupid because I don't believe them to be accurate at all. Not one bit.
Indonesia has went through some major changes in the past few years and none for the better so I doubt very much if the war had ANYTHING to do with the way they look at us.
And to say the PA ever thought of us in a positive light is absolutely hysterical..
Jordan on the other-hand does trouble me a little. More and more over the past decade Jordan has become less fanatical and more democratic. They never liked the US but they at least showed some type of civility toward the rest of the non Muslim world..

 

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,863
10
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush is an international embarrassment. He makes the whole world cringe. He is also a disaster.
Sure seems to be doing alright to me..
We have had no attacks against the US since 9/11..
Our stock market is way up after surviving 9/11, 2 wars, and the ass backward economic policies of Clinton.
Our military is at an all time high in moral after the lowest from Clinton's antics.
Our markets are beginning to be cleaned up which Clinton did NOTHING about. Unless you call harassing MS something.. No one seems to remember Worldcom and Enron did all there deeds when Bill was pres.
Our taxes are lower!!
We may have a slightly higher unemployment rate but its still historically low...
Every piece of crap country in the world now knows not to F with us or we'll do something about it.. Unlike Bill who let them walk all over us...

I could go on and on but its to easy.. And the rest of the country must agree with me because look who we elected in the 2K elections. :)
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,824
0
76
Originally posted by: IamDavid
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush is an international embarrassment. He makes the whole world cringe. He is also a disaster.
Sure seems to be doing alright to me..
We have had no attacks against the US since 9/11..
Our stock market is way up after surviving 9/11, 2 wars, and the ass backward economic policies of Clinton.
Our military is at an all time high in moral after the lowest from Clinton's antics.
Our markets are beginning to be cleaned up which Clinton did NOTHING about. Unless you call harassing MS something.. No one seems to remember Worldcom and Enron did all there deeds when Bill was pres.
Our taxes are lower!!
We may have a slightly higher unemployment rate but its still historically low...
Every piece of crap country in the world now knows not to F with us or we'll do something about it.. Unlike Bill who let them walk all over us...

I could go on and on but its to easy.. And the rest of the country must agree with me because look who we elected in the 2K elections. :)
You actually think the stock market is in good shape?
Markets cleaned up?
Not worried that unemployment is highest in 9 years?
Deficit setting records?
President lying to the public to take us to war?

You really must just cover your ears and scream when facts you don't like appear.

...and yes world opinion is of the US much lower than it was a few years ago.

Sure many people haven't liked the US for a long time, but try and wrap your head around the concept of "much worse than before" for a minute.


 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Czar
ofcorse there was resentment before, but there was also a great deal of respect from many countries, all that is slowly fading away, this is what you should be worried about.

This is no on and off state.
Your opinion is unchanged.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
Originally posted by: IamDavid
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush is an international embarrassment. He makes the whole world cringe. He is also a disaster.
Sure seems to be doing alright to me..
We have had no attacks against the US since 9/11..
Our stock market is way up after surviving 9/11, 2 wars, and the ass backward economic policies of Clinton.
Our military is at an all time high in moral after the lowest from Clinton's antics.
Our markets are beginning to be cleaned up which Clinton did NOTHING about. Unless you call harassing MS something.. No one seems to remember Worldcom and Enron did all there deeds when Bill was pres.
Our taxes are lower!!
We may have a slightly higher unemployment rate but its still historically low...
Every piece of crap country in the world now knows not to F with us or we'll do something about it.. Unlike Bill who let them walk all over us...

I could go on and on but its to easy.. And the rest of the country must agree with me because look who we elected in the 2K elections. :)
yes everyone knows im a bush puppet, but you did not know me when clinton was in office, i was one of his most vigorous defenders.

You think Clintons economic policy was bad? What part did you not agree with? The balanced budget that gave rise to the largest influx of foreign investment capital the US had seen since the end of WW2? You remember all that money that flooded the market, mostly in the dot com arena, but it caught the attention of the American public who jumped in with 401k's and mutual funds.

Granted ronnie reagan made moderate gains in the market by borrowing 3 trillion bucks, Clinton tripled the market on a balanced budget. Bush the first paid for Ronnie's policy (our children will later, and for this admins fiscal policy). Funny during the 80's we heard how great it was because of Reagan, until Clinton left office, then Reagan's policies didn't even take effect until Clinton was elected, he was responsible for the great economy Clinton enjoyed.....

You probably think Carter was a failure economically too though....
(looks tempting, don't bite....)
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: IamDavid
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush is an international embarrassment. He makes the whole world cringe. He is also a disaster.
Sure seems to be doing alright to me..
We have had no attacks against the US since 9/11..
Our stock market is way up after surviving 9/11, 2 wars, and the ass backward economic policies of Clinton.
Our military is at an all time high in moral after the lowest from Clinton's antics.
Our markets are beginning to be cleaned up which Clinton did NOTHING about. Unless you call harassing MS something.. No one seems to remember Worldcom and Enron did all there deeds when Bill was pres.
Our taxes are lower!!
We may have a slightly higher unemployment rate but its still historically low...
Every piece of crap country in the world now knows not to F with us or we'll do something about it.. Unlike Bill who let them walk all over us...

I could go on and on but its to easy.. And the rest of the country must agree with me because look who we elected in the 2K elections. :)
yes everyone knows im a bush puppet, but you did not know me when clinton was in office, i was one of his most vigorous defenders.

You think Clintons economic policy was bad? What part did you not agree with? The balanced budget that gave rise to the largest influx of foreign investment capital the US had seen since the end of WW2? You remember all that money that flooded the market, mostly in the dot com arena, but it caught the attention of the American public who jumped in with 401k's and mutual funds.

Granted ronnie reagan made moderate gains in the market by borrowing 3 trillion bucks, Clinton tripled the market on a balanced budget. Bush the first paid for Ronnie's policy (our children will later, and for this admins fiscal policy). Funny during the 80's we heard how great it was because of Reagan, until Clinton left office, then Reagan's policies didn't even take effect until Clinton was elected, he was responsible for the great economy Clinton enjoyed.....

You probably think Carter was a failure economically too though....
(looks tempting, don't bite....)

This is question that everyone refuses to answer.

Which years during the previous admin did the debt actually contract?
09/29/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66

Enron has nothing on goverment accounting.
linkage
 

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,863
10
81
Alistar7, I too was a Clinton supporter in the first term of his presidency.. Then I guss I woke up.. Clinton's policies were non existent, the republican help congress passed the laws and budgets that made him look good. Same with GW for that matter. I have said many, many times the pres has little if anything to do with the current state of the economy.. I wish Clinton had enough foresight to do something with all that "prosperity". What do we have to show for it just a few short years later? Nothing. Our education is still garbage and our military was damn near ruined till Rummy got a hold of it. Social Security and Medicaid still have no viable future. And so on. And as for the stock market during the Clinton presidency it was a joke.. All based on lies ontop of corporate lies. I feel no pity for the idiots who dumped there life savings into a IPO od www.whatever.com and lost it all. Pure stupidity on there party.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
who said the debt contracted?

I can give you links of what was paid during clintons years, and you can see the effect on the rate of growth ( which is constant, and why you see it still going up ). We are talking about a balanced budget, although there were payments made to our debt as well. Remember that surplus we used to have.....
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Alistar7
who said the debt contracted?

I can give you links of what was paid during clintons years, and you can see the effect on the rate of growth ( which is constant, and why you see it still going up ). We are talking about a balanced budget, although there were payments made to our debt as well. Remember that surplus we used to have.....
It is impossible to have a balanced budget, much less a budget with a surplus and still have the debt go up. This is simple accounting.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY