So are Republicans going to shut down the government over Planned Parenthood?

[ivwshane]

Hows that?

Because it's against the law.

 

[werepossum]

Hows that?

Planned Parenthood is careful to maintain a separation between the abortion side and women's services side. Government money does not go to the abortion side as a requirement of their funding. It's a largely meaningless distinction since money is fungible, but our legal system abounds with such largely meaningless distinctions and as long as they honor the letter of it, it's as valid as any other.

EDIT: It's worth pointing out that, while only a far left minority really likes abortion, every group that receives government money to do something government wants done (presumably more efficiently than government could provide the same services) will also be doing things that a lot of people hate. I guarantee that a lot of progressives hate Catholic Charities.

 

[ivwshane]

I may be wrong, but I find it very difficult to believe that the pro-abortion left is as much or more galvanized and organized by the prospect of abortion clinics not being allowed to sell aborted babies for parts as the anti-abortion right is about the practice of abortion clinics selling aborted babies for parts. Human beings should not be sold, period, either before or after death. Full disclosure: I am the pro-abortion right so this may not be a common position, but I just can't imagine that very many people are excited about the "right" to sell dead humans for parts.

So you are also against the sale of cadavers that are used for science?

 

[ivwshane]

Planned Parenthood is careful to maintain a separation between the abortion side and women's services side. Government money does not go to the abortion side as a requirement of their funding. It's a largely meaningless distinction since money is fungible, but our legal system abounds with such largely meaningless distinctions and as long as they honor the letter of it, it's as valid as any other.

EDIT: It's worth pointing out that, while only a far left minority really likes abortion, every group that receives government money to do something government wants done (presumably more efficiently than government could provide the same services) will also be doing things that a lot of people hate. I guarantee that a lot of progressives hate Catholic Charities.

Lol! What a bubble you've created!

 

[K1052]

Do you have any reliable links supporting this claim? I've never heard this claim.

Fern

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/gop-support-grows-for-hardline-planned-parenthood-strategy-120837.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/30/planned-parenthood-backlash-could-fuel-new-shutdown-standoff-in-dc/

Certainly seems to be in the realm of possibility.

 

[ivwshane]

This is slightly off topic but...


I'm having an abortion party on the 17th. Since myself and other pro choice people love abortions so much I thought we could just have one big party. We can all get our girls pregnant and then at the party just go crazy and have a suck fest!

The best part? We can then sell these baby parts for cash which will pay for the whole party!

PM with your email and I'll get invites out ASAP!

Ain't no party like an abortion party!

Who loves abortions? I DO!






/s

The "s" is for stupid shit werepossum believes

 

[werepossum]

So you are also against the sale of cadavers that are used for science?

Yes. Perhaps you could share with us which part of "Human beings should not be sold, period, either before or after death" is beyond your comprehension.

Lol! What a bubble you've created!

M'kay . . .

Is my bubble denying that most people love abortion, denying that money is in fact not fungible, denying that Planned Parenthood can provide some services more cheaply than can the federal government, or denying that progressives love Catholic Charities? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[VRAMdemon]

^^^Huh!?..am I reading this right?...Is your position that you are against using body parts and internal organs from cadavers to save lives?..I sure hope not.

 

[werepossum]

This is slightly off topic but...


I'm having an abortion party on the 17th. Since myself and other pro choice people love abortions so much I thought we could just have one big party. We can all get our girls pregnant and then at the party just go crazy and have a suck fest!

The best part? We can then sell these baby parts for cash which will pay for the whole party!

PM with your email and I'll get invites out ASAP!

Ain't no party like an abortion party!

Who loves abortions? I DO!






/s

The "s" is for stupid shit werepossum believes

Here's a clip of a woman discussing her book: "Abortion, Morality, and the Liberation of Women". Her theme is that abortion is a good thing because it liberates women from childbirth. It's a somewhat common point of view, that abortion is a good thing because it liberates women by decoupling sex from childbirth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moO5IAIwHgQ

I would post a link to the woman's video celebrating her abortion, but I'd have to wade through reams of Alex Jones-type videos about her video. No thanks.

^^^Huh!?..am I reading this right?...Is your position that you are against using body parts and internal organs from cadavers to save lives?..I sure hope not.

Of course not, but I am against selling body parts and internal organs from cadavers to save lives.

To put this into perspective, I have nothing against picking cotton, but I am very much against selling people to pick cotton. This should not be a controversial viewpoint.

 

[Blackjack200]

I may be wrong, but I find it very difficult to believe that the pro-abortion left is as much or more galvanized and organized by the prospect of abortion clinics not being allowed to sell aborted babies for parts as the anti-abortion right is about the practice of abortion clinics selling aborted babies for parts. Human beings should not be sold, period, either before or after death. Full disclosure: I am the pro-abortion right so this may not be a common position, but I just can't imagine that very many people are excited about the "right" to sell dead humans for parts.

Interesting straw man you've constructed, but I support women being given the oppotunity to donate their fetus' organs for medical research just as I'd support any other person being able to donate the by-products of their procedures, or their entire corpus (upon expiration) to medical research. I also support the re-imbursement of reasonable costs by the researchers to the abortion provider.

The anti women's rights side might get their way on this, and if that's the case, I'd be disappointed, but would still support a woman's right to make her own reproductive decisions. So you're right, they may be more galvanized, but that might change if they further encroach onto women's rights.

Planned Parenthood is careful to maintain a separation between the abortion side and women's services side. Government money does not go to the abortion side as a requirement of their funding. It's a largely meaningless distinction since money is fungible, but our legal system abounds with such largely meaningless distinctions and as long as they honor the letter of it, it's as valid as any other.

EDIT: It's worth pointing out that, while only a far left minority really likes abortion, every group that receives government money to do something government wants done (presumably more efficiently than government could provide the same services) will also be doing things that a lot of people hate. I guarantee that a lot of progressives hate Catholic Charities.

I have a friend that works for Catholic Charities, and while they may do things I disagree with, based on what she posts on Facebook, it seems like a pretty good organization to me. I say this as someone that is generally not a huge fan of Catholicism. (Pope Francis has damn near changed that though.)

 

[Jhhnn]

Here's a clip of a woman discussing her book: "Abortion, Morality, and the Liberation of Women". Her theme is that abortion is a good thing because it liberates women from childbirth. It's a somewhat common point of view, that abortion is a good thing because it liberates women by decoupling sex from childbirth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moO5IAIwHgQ

I would post a link to the woman's video celebrating her abortion, but I'd have to wade through reams of Alex Jones-type videos about her video. No thanks.


Of course not, but I am against selling body parts and internal organs from cadavers to save lives.

To put this into perspective, I have nothing against picking cotton, but I am very much against selling people to pick cotton. This should not be a controversial viewpoint.

So you found one woman & that supports your usual smear tactics? Really?

 

[Blackjack200]

Yes. Perhaps you could share with us which part of "Human beings should not be sold, period, either before or after death" is beyond your comprehension.

I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that there are huge numbers of cadavers sold to medical schools every year, and that they are used to train doctors. You oppose that too? I'd rather we have doctors that have been trained on cadavers, and I'm comfortable with a regulated market that supports that.

 

[nickqt]

...whereas you guys want to kill the kid.

And you want to force a woman to be nothing but an incubator, if I'm going to lob equally bullshit talking points at you.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes. Perhaps you could share with us which part of "Human beings should not be sold, period, either before or after death" is beyond your comprehension.

Dead people are just meat. I can appreciate the taboo about eating them, but the rest is just maudlin pandering.

You do that well with a variety of subjects.

 

[theeedude]

Hows that?

By law, the federal funding doesn't fund abortions. If you don't know that, it's kind of stupid to even engage in an argument over PP funding.

 

[werepossum]

Interesting straw man you've constructed, but I support women being given the oppotunity to donate their fetus' organs for medical research just as I'd support any other person being able to donate the by-products of their procedures, or their entire corpus (upon expiration) to medical research. I also support the re-imbursement of reasonable costs by the researchers to the abortion provider.

The anti women's rights side might get their way on this, and if that's the case, I'd be disappointed, but would still support a woman's right to make her own reproductive decisions. So you're right, they may be more galvanized, but that might change if they further encroach onto women's rights.

I have a friend that works for Catholic Charities, and while they may do things I disagree with, based on what she posts on Facebook, it seems like a pretty good organization to me. I say this as someone that is generally not a huge fan of Catholicism. (Pope Francis has damn near changed that though.)

I don't think it's a strawman. You say you "support the re-imbursement of reasonable costs by the researchers to the abortion provider", but in practise that is just selling babies. I'll rent an office from you to collect the dead babies. I'll pay you $300 per hour, and I'll need approximately one hour per dead baby." How is that different from selling dead babies?

Planned Parenthood does things I disagree with too, but I think on balance they are a reasonably good organization. My gut instinct is to not fund any organization that does abortions, but there are really only two alternatives. Either Planned Parenthood splits off its abortion business, which means either they can do fewer good things (increased overhead) or abortions cost more. Or Planned Parenthood stops doing abortions and poor women don't have access to abortions. Funding Planned Parenthood is clearly the lesser evil even if one believes abortion should be illegal, although I can respect those who disagree.

I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that there are huge numbers of cadavers sold to medical schools every year, and that they are used to train doctors. You oppose that too? I'd rather we have doctors that have been trained on cadavers, and I'm comfortable with a regulated market that supports that.

Yes, I oppose the selling of cadavers. It's actually against the law to sell bodies, which is why abortion clinics go through the fiction of renting office space. But medical schools do pay for processing, so I suppose this may be another of those largely meaningless distinctions I have to live with.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/arti...-supply-the-last-industry-to-face-big-changes

By law, bodies cannot be sold, although groups like the association can be paid for processing. Member med schools pay about $1,300 per cadaver; nonmembers pay $2,300.

 

[theeedude]

I am the pro-abortion right so this may not be a common position, but I just can't imagine that very many people are excited about the "right" to sell dead humans for parts.

So you are OK with abortion, the problem you have is aborted tissue being used for life saving research? A position that minimizes total lives saved.

 

[werepossum]

Dead people are just meat. I can appreciate the taboo about eating them, but the rest is just maudlin pandering.

You do that well with a variety of subjects.

Thank you.

I do believe that's the first time anyone has ever referred to me as maudlin.

 

[werepossum]

So you are OK with abortion, the problem you have is aborted tissue being used for life saving research? A position that minimizes total lives saved.

I am okay with abortion, I am okay with aborted babies being used for research, I am against selling dead babies. Or eating them, even if one believes they are "just dead meat".

 

[theeedude]

I am okay with abortion, I am okay with aborted babies being used for research, I am against selling dead babies. Or eating them, even if one believes they are "just dead meat".

Unfortunately, that's not how the world works.
If you want scientists and doctors to have access to aborted tissue for research and therapies, it costs money for the abortion provider to harvest, handle, and ship this tissue. If they aren't at least compensated for these costs, that tissue is going into the dumpster, which is the outcome that minimizes overall lives saved and health of society.
Outcomes are what matters.

 

[Sonikku]

I don't understand that rationale of killing to improve another's quality of life, no.

You must be new to being Human. :hmm:

 

[JSt0rm]

You must be new to being Human. :hmm:

Im pretty sure he was ok with bombing the crap out of the middle east because terrorists.

 

[Zorkorist]

Unfortunately, that's not how the world works.
If you want scientists and doctors to have access to aborted tissue for research and therapies, it costs money for the abortion provider to harvest, handle, and ship this tissue. If they aren't at least compensated for these costs, that tissue is going into the dumpster, which is the outcome that minimizes overall lives saved and health of society.
Outcomes are what matters.

We live in a world of individual freedom. Government's intrusions in our freedoms is what kills civilizations.

-John

 

[ivwshane]

We live in a world of individual freedom. Government's intrusions in our freedoms is what kills civilizations.

-John

Well then you might want to tell that to the republicans here who wish to interfere in our individual freedoms.

 

[werepossum]

Unfortunately, that's not how the world works.
If you want scientists and doctors to have access to aborted tissue for research and therapies, it costs money for the abortion provider to harvest, handle, and ship this tissue. If they aren't at least compensated for these costs, that tissue is going into the dumpster, which is the outcome that minimizes overall lives saved and health of society.
Outcomes are what matters.

Outcomes are what matters is simply restating the ends justifies the means. I don't accept that. And remember that a baby not sold is a baby whose remains must be properly disposed; chucking them in the dumpster doesn't work with human remains, and no matter how often one calls them "tissue", these are human remains. Unlike medical cadavers, these aren't processed, they are simply refrigerated until picked up.

I also have a problem with the abortion provider saying these aborted babies are important for the future of humanity - so buy them, or I'll chunk them in the incinerator. In reality, very few abortion clinics operate human remains incinerators, so it's a question of selling them or paying someone to collect and properly dispose of them.