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So after Obama Wins this Election....

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tydas

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2000
1,284
0
76
Actually, according to the right wing press if Obama wins we will decend into civil war, foreign invasions, monetary collpase and general anarchy and chasos...
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,760
11
81
Maybe, but I'm not feeling optimistic since the Republicans have been outstandingly bad for too long. All it takes is for people to get used to one side winning and that will be the new democracy. Those here who love the idea of a virtually unaccountable Democratic party (because that's what it would become), will claim we still have democratic elections, but it's just that the will of the people is now expressed at the primary level. Once Dems have gained enough power to shut off all competition, like the duopoly which exists now, then they are it. I hope I'm overly cynical today but the trend over time has been to see partisanship grow and extend it's influence. Never before have I seen a population so unwilling to ask questions and demand accountability in more than just words.
People have always been stupid, and right now, the Dems just have pandering down to an art form - just keep offering more and better freebies, and pretend to "care", and you're golden. The GOP tries to do it, with tax breaks and the like, but they're just not that good at it, with things like the Medicare drug coverage expansion - not nearly big or broad enough. Obama countered with free healthcare for nearly everyone - how are you going to top that? You can't. All you can do at this point is just let the system run its inevitable course, until we hit Greek crash and burn, and then maybe people will finally look past the immediate-gratification-now! perspective and make systemic changes. You can't run trillion dollar deficits forever.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,195
6,242
136
Actually, according to the right wing press if Obama wins we will decend into civil war, foreign invasions, monetary collpase and general anarchy and chasos...
Don't forget Marshall Law.

Hasn't Hillary stated that she will be leaving politics once she is done as Secretary of State?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,195
6,242
136
People have always been stupid, and right now, the Dems just have pandering down to an art form - just keep offering more and better freebies, and pretend to "care", and you're golden. The GOP tries to do it, with tax breaks and the like, but they're just not that good at it, with things like the Medicare drug coverage expansion - not nearly big or broad enough. Obama countered with free healthcare for nearly everyone - how are you going to top that? You can't. All you can do at this point is just let the system run its inevitable course, until we hit Greek crash and burn, and then maybe people will finally look past the immediate-gratification-now! perspective and make systemic changes. You can't run trillion dollar deficits forever.
Wow, free healthcare for nearly everyone?!?! Where do I get me some of that?!
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,211
126
Wow, free healthcare for nearly everyone?!?! Where do I get me some of that?!
That's the goal isn't it? Doesn't matter if it's good or bad. Make it free. That's the American Way!

I'm still waiting for my free chicken in my pot.

But you are right. Obamacare isn't free. In fact for most it's less affordable.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,195
6,242
136
That's the goal isn't it? Doesn't matter if it's good or bad. Make it free. That's the American Way!

I'm still waiting for my free chicken in my pot.

But you are right. Obamacare isn't free. In fact for most it's less affordable.
Yes, in an advanced society, that should be the goal. Doesn't make blatant lying any better though, now does it?
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
How am I supposed to tell you who I might vote for in 2016 if I don't know who is running? ;)
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,211
126
Yes, in an advanced society, that should be the goal. Doesn't make blatant lying any better though, now does it?
I suggest you look at the FDA and opiate thread to find what "free" healthcare will be like. It's not pleasant faces and smiles, it's the reality of a crushing bureaucracy with no real world constraints. Hell, I'd like to see flying cars tomorrow. It's just about as likely to happen as a good system controlled by these very people. Blatant lying? "Affordable Healthcare". That's a lie. More affordable for a few, but less for others. That was a lie. One could argue that as a society that is our obligation, but that isn't in the title is it?

Everyone talks about how grand UHC is in France. Great. Have France run it. Here you obey politicians.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,195
6,242
136
I suggest you look at the FDA and opiate thread to find what "free" healthcare will be like. It's not pleasant faces and smiles, it's the reality of a crushing bureaucracy with no real world constraints. Hell, I'd like to see flying cars tomorrow. It's just about as likely to happen as a good system controlled by these very people. Blatant lying? "Affordable Healthcare". That's a lie. More affordable for a few, but less for others. That was a lie. One could argue that as a society that is our obligation, but that isn't in the title is it?

Everyone talks about how grand UHC is in France. Great. Have France run it. Here you obey politicians.
We will have to wait and see if the ACA makes healthcare more or less affordable. Predicting the future is a tricky thing. It's not a good idea to hang your hat on a prediction.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,211
126
We will have to wait and see if the ACA makes healthcare more or less affordable. Predicting the future is a tricky thing. It's not a good idea to hang your hat on a prediction.
It's a good bet that when adding people which consume far more resources than they contribute are put in a cost sharing pool that the average has to go up. Obamacare has yet to demonstrate that it has rewritten the laws of mathematics. Note that's a completely separate argument from whether we should provide a mechanism for the uninsured to have coverage.

Also, Obamacare is not exempt from the laws of unintended consequences, so if this causes a cascade of increased costs "it's not his fault" will be unacceptable
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,195
6,242
136
It's a good bet that when adding people which consume far more resources than they contribute are put in a cost sharing pool that the average has to go up. Obamacare has yet to demonstrate that it has rewritten the laws of mathematics. Note that's a completely separate argument from whether we should provide a mechanism for the uninsured to have coverage.

Also, Obamacare is not exempt from the laws of unintended consequences, so if this causes a cascade of increased costs "it's not his fault" will be unacceptable
Forcing millions of low risk people to purchase healthcare won't counter this?
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,760
11
81
We will have to wait and see if the ACA makes healthcare more or less affordable. Predicting the future is a tricky thing. It's not a good idea to hang your hat on a prediction.
The history of projected costs vs. actual costs of major gov't programs is pretty clear. When it comes to what the ACA actually costs in 5 years or so, I'm happy to take the over.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,649
10,704
136
Since it's pretty fucken obvious who's gonna be in the presidents seat for 2012...

I was wondering who the "D's" will elect for 2016?

and are you happy that Obama got another 4 years?
I'll be happy when the economy completely recovers. I just don't think going back to the Bush policies will make things better.
 

kia75

Senior member
Oct 30, 2005
468
0
71
Not Hillary. She's too old, she'll be 69 in 2016, that's a bit old to be president.

Reagan is the only other president to be that old when inaugurated.

I'm guessing it's going to be some governor or Senator that hasn't taken national stage yet for the Dems. I don't think Biden will run after Obama.

For the Rep's its easier. Chris Cristi, Tim Pawlenty, Cubio, Huckbee, there are tons of names that could be on the ballot in 2016.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,267
3
76
People have always been stupid, and right now, the Dems just have pandering down to an art form - just keep offering more and better freebies, and pretend to "care", and you're golden. The GOP tries to do it, with tax breaks and the like, but they're just not that good at it, with things like the Medicare drug coverage expansion - not nearly big or broad enough. Obama countered with free healthcare for nearly everyone - how are you going to top that? You can't. All you can do at this point is just let the system run its inevitable course, until we hit Greek crash and burn, and then maybe people will finally look past the immediate-gratification-now! perspective and make systemic changes. You can't run trillion dollar deficits forever.
The difference in the pandering being from the Republicans if you have a job, and produce you get the benefits, from the Democrats you don't even have to do that, no need to even try, hell, it's better if you don't.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
126
H. Clinton would be 68 in 2016 which would be up there with Reagan. Maybe with people living longer these days it wouldn't be such an issue.
Doesn't matter much. The Reps have killed themselves so we're probably looking at a one party nation. Stalin couldn't have done it better.
People have always been stupid, and right now, the Dems just have pandering down to an art form - just keep offering more and better freebies, and pretend to "care", and you're golden. The GOP tries to do it, with tax breaks and the like, but they're just not that good at it, with things like the Medicare drug coverage expansion - not nearly big or broad enough. Obama countered with free healthcare for nearly everyone - how are you going to top that? You can't. All you can do at this point is just let the system run its inevitable course, until we hit Greek crash and burn, and then maybe people will finally look past the immediate-gratification-now! perspective and make systemic changes. You can't run trillion dollar deficits forever.
Well said. Although it's worth pointing out that many, perhaps most, of the Greeks don't look past the immediate-gratification-now! perspective even as their country crashes. Once people are conditioned to be subservient to and dependent on government, they tend to continue demanding the moon and accepting whatever crumbs can be spared.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
Not Hilary, no more damn dynasties.

Let another self made man or woman. Someone who is not afraid to fight, but still a middle of the road kind of person. I'd also like a balanced budget person.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
126
Not Hilary, no more damn dynasties.

Let another self made man or woman. Someone who is not afraid to fight, but still a middle of the road kind of person. I'd also like a balanced budget person.
A balanced budget person is now officially a racist extremist. Sorry.
 

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