Smoking vs. Drinking

[deepred98]

This was sorta inspired by the tobacco exec thread.

Anyways i know that smoking cigarettes is horrendous for your health but what about pipe tobacco/flavored tobacco or weed or cigars. Since, with cigars at least, you shouldn't be inhaling isn't that less damaging than alcohol and forcing your liver and intestines to get rid of that toxin?

People say alcohol in moderation is good so why is smoking in moderation considered bad?

Personally i find smoking to be much more relaxing than drinking (maybe thats just because my friends are annoying as hell drunk) and the next morning is undoubtably better.

*Oh and this is not about cigarettes. I think everyone can agree that cigs are bad m'kay?*

 

[clamum]

I'm not sure but they're both beautiful things.

 

[coldmeat]

It depends on what you think is moderate.

And when you say you prefer to smoke, do you mean weed? Because the guys I know that smoke are way more annoying when they're high.

 

[mrkun]

I'm skeptical that drinking it moderation is good for you. However, there aren't any long term side effects. Smoking in any amount has long term side effects.

 

[purbeast0]

who "smokes in moderation" is my question.

most people i know who drink do it once a week if that, and they don't get hammered every time.

most people i know who smoke do it daily and do about a pack a day.

 

[aplefka]

There's no way you're serious right now about smoking being more relaxing than drinking. Maybe if you're smoking a nice, hand-rolled cigar in a hot tub or something, but cigarettes pale in comparison to alcohol. You can get a buzz and be fine the next morning whereas you smoke anything over 5 sticks and the next morning you're gonna have a shitty taste in your mouth even if you brush your teeth after.

Edit: Cope Long + Alcohol = Win

 

[KB]

Are you trying to make yourself feel better about smoking?
Smoking equals higher risk of cancer than alcohol, plus alcohol is less addictive, so alcohol wins.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH...east.cancer/index.html
According to the new research, drinking just one to two drinks a day increases a woman's risk of breast cancer by 10 percent. Make that three or more drinks a day, and the risk triples to 30 percent.

http://no-smoking.org/august02/08-12-02-2.html
Women who smoke for many years may increase their risk of developing breast cancer. New research shows that for women who had smoked for 40 years or longer, the risk of breast cancer was 60% higher than that of women who had never smoked.

Among those who smoked 20 cigarettes or more a day for 40 years, the increased risk rose to 83%.

 

[imported_LoKe]

You're supposed to inhale cigars, by the way, just not as much as you would from a cigarette. Chewing tobacco is my vice.

If I had to say which one I thought was worse...I don't think I'd be able to. It's difficult to compare the two as they're used different. Most smokers will smoke up to a pack in a day, which is a hell of a lot. Others won't. Some get drunk every night/every other day, others drink once a week, some once a month, or like me, twice a year.

Not two thing you can really compare, but if we just compared statistics, I'd say cigarettes cause more death.

 

[deepred98]

mrkun - are you sure alcohol has no long term side effects? and i though that the damage from smoking is eventually, albeit slowly, fixed.

purbeast - most of my friends simply smoke cigars or flavored tobacco once or twice a week. as i said i don't mean cigarettes which are obviously addictive and cancer-causing. anyways seems like my friends are the exact opposite of yours as the ones who drink get trashed almost every weekend and the ones who smoke smoke maybe 2-3 cigars and about a gram of weed a week so to each his own i guess.

aplefka - again i am not talking about cigarettes which i despise. i am talking about the effects of pipe tobacco or cigars or weed, in other words more natural less processed smokes (i know that is debatable, at least for weed)

kb - i don't really need to make myself feel better about either of those things as i don't do them often and when i do it is at parties. i just feel that smoking is being over demonized while alcohol (which causes thousands of innocent deaths... drunk driving?) is considered okay. personally i think both should come with warnings but niether should be banned or anything.

 

[aplefka]

Originally posted by: LoKe
You're supposed to inhale cigars, by the way, just not as much as you would from a cigarette. Chewing tobacco is my vice.

If I had to say which one I thought was worse...I don't think I'd be able to. It's difficult to compare the two as they're used different. Most smokers will smoke up to a pack in a day, which is a hell of a lot. Others won't. Some get drunk every night/every other day, others drink once a week, some once a month, or like me, twice a year.

Not two thing you can really compare, but if we just compared statistics, I'd say cigarettes cause more death.

I recently quit but I still enjoy a dip every now and again. Just last week while I was home for the holiday I went through a can of Skoal Citrus Blend and half a can of Cope Long.

 

[aplefka]

Originally posted by: deepred98
mrkun - are you sure alcohol has no long term side effects? and i though that the damage from smoking is eventually, albeit slowly, fixed.

purbeast - most of my friends simply smoke cigars or flavored tobacco once or twice a week. as i said i don't mean cigarettes which are obviously addictive and cancer-causing. anyways seems like my friends are the exact opposite of yours as the ones who drink get trashed almost every weekend and the ones who smoke smoke maybe 2-3 cigars and about a gram of weed a week so to each his own i guess.

aplefka - again i am not talking about cigarettes which i despise. i am talking about the effects of pipe tobacco or cigars or weed, in other words more natural less processed smokes (i know that is debatable, at least for weed)

My apologies, I misread the post then. What about chewing tobacco though?

 

[imported_LoKe]

Originally posted by: deepred98
mrkun - are you sure alcohol has no long term side effects? and i though that the damage from smoking is eventually, albeit slowly, fixed.

From what I've read, if you've smoked for 20 years it'll take at least 40 to make up for most of the damage. Mind you, there are probably circumstances that wold greatly offset this (like if you had cancer during those 20 years, or something). Maybe I misunderstood.

 

[imported_LoKe]

Originally posted by: aplefka

I recently quit but I still enjoy a dip every now and again. Just last week while I was home for the holiday I went through a can of Skoal Citrus Blend and half a can of Cope Long.

I can go through about a can of skoal in a day, but I try to make one last at least two days. However, here in Canada our cans are half the size and made entirely of plastic. I've got a can of apple skoal from the States, it's massive, and the lid is actually tin (we call the cans "tins" here).

 

[Crono]

The human body doesn't have a tolerance for cigarettes like it does for alcohol. A normal person can drink in moderation in your lifetime and not have any negative effects on your health (some studies even show a slight positive benefit). The same cannot be said about cigarettes, and cigarettes produce a cocktail of poisons. Can you smoke occasionally and not see any large, adverse effects? Sure, just the same way you could consume a little rat poison over time and not feel any effects.

 

[deepred98]

Originally posted by: aplefka

My apologies, I misread the post then. What about chewing tobacco though?

i honestly know nothing about chewing tobacco and have never tried it (probably because after watching my friend fill a cup full of yellow juice, i was sorta grossed out) and therefore i can't really comment, but i'd imagine that is somewhat healthier than smoking and drinking

 

[imported_LoKe]

Originally posted by: deepred98

Originally posted by: aplefka

My apologies, I misread the post then. What about chewing tobacco though?

i honestly know nothing about chewing tobacco and have never tried it (probably because after watching my friend fill a cup full of yellow juice, i was sorta grossed out) and therefore i can't really comment, but i'd imagine that is somewhat healthier than smoking and drinking

Much healthier. Aside from the abundance of nicotine, there's simply the problem of damage to the gums/teeth. Mouth cancer is unlikely, but does occur.

EDIT: Healthier is not the correct word, I would rather say less damaging.

 

[Vic]

20 minutes after quitting smoking from the American Lung Association.

When smokers quit, within twenty minutes of smoking that last cigarette the body begins a series of changes.

At 20 minutes after quitting:
blood pressure decreases
pulse rate drops
body temperature of hands and feet increases

At 8 hours:
carbon monoxide level in blood drops to normal
oxygen level in blood increases to normal

At 24 hours:
chance of a heart attack decreases

At 48 hours:
nerve endings start regrowing
ability to smell and taste is enhanced

The first year after quitting:

At 2 weeks to 3 months:
circulation improves
walking becomes easier
lung function increases

1 to 9 months:
coughing, sinus congestion, fatigue, shortness of breath decreases

1 year:
excess risk of coronary heart disease is decreased to half that of a smoker

Long-term Benefits of Quitting

At 5 years:
from 5 to 15 years after quitting, stroke risk is reduced to that of people who have never smoked.

At 10 years:
risk of lung cancer drops to as little as one-half that of continuing smokers
risk of cancer of the mouth, throat, esophagus, bladder, kidney, and pancreas decreases
risk of ulcer decreases

At 15 years:
risk of coronary heart disease is now similar to that of people who have never smoked
risk of death returns to nearly the level of people who have never smoked.

 

[torpid]

Even if you don't inhale, there are non-lung cancer risks for both cigars and chew.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: LoKe

Originally posted by: deepred98

Originally posted by: aplefka

My apologies, I misread the post then. What about chewing tobacco though?

i honestly know nothing about chewing tobacco and have never tried it (probably because after watching my friend fill a cup full of yellow juice, i was sorta grossed out) and therefore i can't really comment, but i'd imagine that is somewhat healthier than smoking and drinking

Much healthier. Aside from the abundance of nicotine, there's simply the problem of damage to the gums/teeth. Mouth cancer is unlikely, but does occur.

EDIT: Healthier is not the correct word, I would rather say less damaging.

I can't agree with this. All the same risks associated with nicotine use are still present (addiction, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc etc) but the lung cancer risk is just replaced with oral/mouth/esophogeal stomach cancers.

Plus, chewing is just downright nasty.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Vic
I can't agree with this. All the same risks associated with nicotine use are still present (addiction, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc etc) but the lung cancer risk is just replaced with oral/mouth/esophogeal stomach cancers.

Plus, chewing is just downright nasty.

It's not replaced with those... those are already present when smoking.

 

[imported_LoKe]

Originally posted by: Vic
I can't agree with this. All the same risks associated with nicotine use are still present (addiction, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc etc) but the lung cancer risk is just replaced with oral/mouth/esophogeal stomach cancers.

I already mentioned that.

Originally posted by: LoKe
Aside from the abundance of nicotine, there's simply the problem of damage to the gums/teeth. Mouth cancer is unlikely, but does occur.

Lung cancer is not an issue with chewing tobacco, neither is stomach cancer (you're not supposed to swallow). And you can get all sorts of cancers from smoking.

 

[mattocs]

Originally posted by: clamum
I'm not sure but they're both beautiful things.

 

[deepred98]

Originally posted by: torpid
Even if you don't inhale, there are non-lung cancer risks for both cigars and chew.

is there no risk of cancer with alcohol?

and i assume you mean gum cancer or something right?

Vic - again i am not concerned with cigarette smoking and that chart seems to be talking about long term smokers (ie chain smokers). anyways alcohol causes detrimental symptoms that alleviate as you stop drinking too.

i guess the point of my post was to see if one cigar causes more damage than say, one beer or a shot of whiskey.

 

[Kirby]

Pipe, snus, and drinker here. I think they are both relaxing, both different, yet can compliment each other.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Vic
I can't agree with this. All the same risks associated with nicotine use are still present (addiction, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc etc) but the lung cancer risk is just replaced with oral/mouth/esophogeal stomach cancers.

Plus, chewing is just downright nasty.

It's not replaced with those... those are already present when smoking.

Sigh... perhaps "replaced" was the wrong word. How about changed risk percentages? Smokers are more likely to get lung cancer, chewers those other cancers. Plus, chew usually has higher levels of nicotine, so there's more risks associated with that (like heart disease).

It all breaks down to risk anyway. Most smokers will never die from smoking (only about 1 in 4 will). And that risk greatly effected by use, i.e. the more the abuse the greater the risk. Chain smoke several packs a day and you'll be lucky to see 50. OTOH, the infrequent casual cigar smoker is unlikely to ever suffer any ill effects.
Alcohol is much the same way. If you drank all day every day, you'd be dead in a few years.