Smoking Now Being Banned on California Beaches

Amused

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Apr 14, 2001
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What was that you said about there being no such thing as a "slippery slope?"

No-smoking forces taking new territory: the beach

By Daniel B. Wood | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

LOS ANGELES ? Ten years after California set a national precedent by banning smoking in restaurants and bars - and months after prohibiting it within feet of government buildings and playgrounds - many of the state's coastal cities are now banning smoking at the beach.

Health and environmental officials say the moves are a logical extension of smoking bans in other public places and are necessary to meet state and federal antipollution requirements.

Some legislators, however, fear the government is prying too far into private lives, with unnecessary and overly puritanical dictums.

Solana Beach was the first California city to ban smoking at the beach when it enacted its prohibition last September. San Clemente imposed a similar ban last week. Santa Monica is likely to follow suit Tuesday, and Encinitas may vote on the issue within a month.

With the momentum of early victories, antismoking activists are taking their arguments to other coastal cities, from San Diego to Manhattan Beach, Hermosa Beach, Huntington Beach, Newport Beach, and beyond.

Los Angeles is also drafting a no-smoking ordinance for Venice, Dockweiler, Will Rogers, and Cabrillo beaches.

"This is really a very basic issue, which is that the community is standing up to protect its youth and citizens from tobacco smoke and litter," says Judy Strang, executive director of Youth Tobacco Prevention Corps, a group of teen activists that set the legislation in motion two years ago at Solana Beach.

The group, which seeks smoke-free beaches, parks, and recreational areas, approached three city councils in 2002 for provisional one-week bans.

After a routine beach cleanup produced 6,300 butts in one hour at the 1.5-mile-long Solana Beach, the group took a tub of cigarette refuse to city hall. They filmed interviews of residents, 91 percent of whom approved the ban. Partnering with the American Heart Association and the Surfrider's Foundation, they barraged city hall with testimonies and requests for action.

Months later, a more formal Solana Beach cleanup event still garnered 230 pounds of refuse, 60 percent of which consisted of wet cigarette butts. It was a wake-up call for the tiny beachfront town from both quality-of-life and legal standpoints. "We are required by federal and state laws to keep water and beaches clean, so this really got the attention of everyone in government," says Matt Rodriguez, assistant city manager at Solana Beach. Cigarette butts do not biodegrade, and they contain 200 known poisons, 63 of which are shown to cause cancer. The city council passed the ban unanimously and has reported no formal resistance or complaints since.

In Sam Clemente, the issue was more contentious. "I don't smoke and I don't like the smell, but I have never in 20 years of living on the beach heard anyone complain about second-hand smoke or cigarette butts," says Wayne Eggleston, one of two city council members who voted against the measure. He says more cigarette butts wash up from storm drains or are flicked by passing drivers than are left by smokers in the sand.

And, he says, if officials wanted to get serious about litter, they would prohibit soda cans and candy wrappers, which he says present far more of a problem. "I was really quite astounded by this vote," says Mr. Eggleston. "I just think there is a limit to what government should dictate to its citizens."

But activists and health officials point to statistics. Only 17 percent of Californians are estimated to smoke, and, according to Environmental Protection Agency data, 50,000 lives are claimed each year from second-hand smoke.

(Amused commentary: 50,000. Not 49,999... Not 50,001 but 50,000. I want a detailed list of names with conculsive proof of causation on each death. In case you didn't know, there exists no such proof. No such list. The EPA pulls this number directly out of it's collective ass.)

"This is long overdue," says Glenn Madalon, executive director of the Orange County chapter of the American Lung Association. "In any public gathering place where you have families, children, and elderly, you should not have to sit next to someone smoking and have to inhale it."

Many residents agree. The beach smoking ban is "great," says Dorothy Snook, a retired teacher's aide, who spent a recent afternoon at Solana Beach with her husband Darrell and a wet chocolate Labrador retriever named Sammy. "It's hard to enforce, but it's another deterrent. It gets the message across that it's not good to smoke, especially for the young people."

How the bans should be advertised and enforced are questions communities say they are currently debating. Critics question additional costs for security and signs and don't think lifeguards and other parks and recreational personnel should have to enforce the ordinances.

"Lifeguards should not be diverting their eyes even for a nanosecond from safety and life issues to tell someone not to smoke," says Joe Anderson, another city council member who voted 'no' on the new San Clemente law.

Solana Beach has not yet appropriated additional funds for enforcement. Under the Santa Monica proposal, citations that carry a $250 fine will help pay for added enforcement and signs.

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As a non-smoker who hates the smell, I am appaled at laws like these. Welcome to the nanny-state, folks. Check your freedoms at the door and revel in the oppressive mothering environment your government has created for you.
 

Amused

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Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: aRCeNiTe
ban it everywhere, save everyone.

Sure... We all know how well that worked for drugs, right?
rolleye.gif
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
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It won't be long before certain cities will not allow smoking at all, anywhere, within city limits.
 

SagaLore

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Dec 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: aRCeNiTe
ban it everywhere, save everyone.

Sure... We all know how well that worked for drugs, right?
rolleye.gif

Sure it does.

There will always be a small percentage of people that refuse to obey the law, to get what they want - and then you end up with substance trafficking and crimes based on that. But when you compare that percentage to the percentage of people dying/suffering from lung problems - ashma, cancer, bronchitis, etc. - and also compare the costs of health problems versus costs of fighting crime - I think you can see what is more favorable.

I think it's funny that this going on while California is also the leader in legalizing pot. :p
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
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It's so easy to ban smoking, because smokers are the pariahs of the 21st century nanny state. Just wait until they ban a more mainstream, but still "dangerous" practice.
 

SagaLore

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Dec 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: jjones
Wow, just wow. Every day I am happier that I no longer live in the States.

California is certainly not representative of the rest of the States.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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In California the beaches are public property, right? Nobody can own the beach...

Anyway...

If the general public doesn't want people to smoke on their beaches, they should be able to make it a law.

We have laws against lots of other things for identical reasons (noise ordinances, public indecency, public drunkenness, etc.), why should smoking be exempt?

Viper GTS
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: Viper GTS
In California the beaches are public property, right? Nobody can own the beach...

Anyway...

If the general public doesn't want people to smoke on their beaches, they should be able to make it a law.

We have laws against lots of other things for identical reasons (noise ordinances, public indecency, public drunkenness, etc.), why should smoking be exempt?

Viper GTS

Because it's not a danger to the general public? Not a sanitation hazard?

If it's an infringement upon personal property rights, it should be considered on a different level than merely "well the public can vote it in if they wish".
 

Azraele

Elite Member
Nov 5, 2000
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After a routine beach cleanup produced 6,300 butts in one hour at the 1.5-mile-long Solana Beach, the group took a tub of cigarette refuse to city hall.
I don't know about anyone else, but who wants to go to a beach where the sand is littered with butts?

There really is no excuse for such behavior, and that goes for people who throw any kind of trash on a beach.

 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
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Originally posted by: Azraele
After a routine beach cleanup produced 6,300 butts in one hour at the 1.5-mile-long Solana Beach, the group took a tub of cigarette refuse to city hall.
I don't know about anyone else, but who wants to go to a beach where the sand is littered with butts?

There really is no excuse for such behavior, and that goes for people who throw any kind of trash on a beach.

In Sam Clemente, the issue was more contentious. "I don't smoke and I don't like the smell, but I have never in 20 years of living on the beach heard anyone complain about second-hand smoke or cigarette butts," says Wayne Eggleston, one of two city council members who voted against the measure. He says more cigarette butts wash up from storm drains or are flicked by passing drivers than are left by smokers in the sand.

And, he says, if officials wanted to get serious about litter, they would prohibit soda cans and candy wrappers, which he says present far more of a problem
Not that that guy is an expert on litter, but I'd be inclined to agree with him.
 

Dudd

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Aug 3, 2001
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I don't think this is comparable to banning smoking in restaurants. This is a public beach, and the public can decide what to do with their beaches. It's not nearly as bad as forcing private property owners to act a certain way.
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: Dudd
I don't think this is comparable to banning smoking in restaurants. This is a public beach, and the public can decide what to do with their beaches. It's not nearly as bad as forcing private property owners to act a certain way.

;) You're a smart one. And I'm very, very tired. I'd say I'd come back and post on this later, but I won't, so I'll concede now, this is a separate issue than one of property rights.

Cheers!
Nate
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: Viper GTS
In California the beaches are public property, right? Nobody can own the beach...

Anyway...

If the general public doesn't want people to smoke on their beaches, they should be able to make it a law.

We have laws against lots of other things for identical reasons (noise ordinances, public indecency, public drunkenness, etc.), why should smoking be exempt?

Viper GTS

Because it's not a danger to the general public? Not a sanitation hazard?

If it's an infringement upon personal property rights, it should be considered on a different level than merely "well the public can vote it in if they wish".

Is an excessively loud stereo a danger to the public? Why do we have laws against that?

Because the general population doesn't want to listen to your music, just like you don't want to listen to theirs. Smoking is no different.

Your right to do what you please (smoke) ends when it starts to infringe upon others.

Note that I am completely AGAINST smoking bans in restaurants, bars, etc. Private institutions should not have their policies mandated.

Publicly owned beaches, however, are a different story.

Viper GTS
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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I'm not sure how it works in CA, but in NJ, most of the beaches are public property - owned by the city or in some cases the state. If the voters in a city or state, whether by intention or by flat-out complacency, allow a law like this to be passed, they have no one to blame but themselves.

I have always been in favor of the owner of a property having the right to decide whether smoking should be allowed on the property. That means the government should not be able to tell the owner of a bar that he cannot allow smoking on the premises. Government-owned property should be no exception. That property is "owned" by the people and the people sould decide.

 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: Azraele
After a routine beach cleanup produced 6,300 butts in one hour at the 1.5-mile-long Solana Beach, the group took a tub of cigarette refuse to city hall.
I don't know about anyone else, but who wants to go to a beach where the sand is littered with butts?

There really is no excuse for such behavior, and that goes for people who throw any kind of trash on a beach.

As pointed out in the article, all of the city's storm drains empty into the ocean. Any litter washed down those drains ends up on the beach.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: Viper GTS
In California the beaches are public property, right? Nobody can own the beach...

Anyway...

If the general public doesn't want people to smoke on their beaches, they should be able to make it a law.

We have laws against lots of other things for identical reasons (noise ordinances, public indecency, public drunkenness, etc.), why should smoking be exempt?

Viper GTS
They should ban BBQs in recreation areas also. How would that be? No more picnics. A complete ban of fireworks displays on the 4th of July would be a good thing too.

 

Azraele

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Nov 5, 2000
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He says more cigarette butts wash up from storm drains or are flicked by passing drivers than are left by smokers in the sand.

And, he says, if officials wanted to get serious about litter, they would prohibit soda cans and candy wrappers, which he says present far more of a problem

Hence my comment about this issue going toward anybody that throws trash where it does not belong.

 

MAME

Banned
Sep 19, 2003
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YAY! Greattttttttttttt news! Smokers should not be allowed to stink up anywhere
 

Amused

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Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: Jzero
I'm not sure how it works in CA, but in NJ, most of the beaches are public property - owned by the city or in some cases the state. If the voters in a city or state, whether by intention or by flat-out complacency, allow a law like this to be passed, they have no one to blame but themselves.

I have always been in favor of the owner of a property having the right to decide whether smoking should be allowed on the property. That means the government should not be able to tell the owner of a bar that he cannot allow smoking on the premises. Government-owned property should be no exception. That property is "owned" by the people and the people sould decide.

What if they decide no "fat" people? What if they decide no children? What if they decide no pasty geeks?

What of they decide no black people?

Majority rules is a terrible system. Individual rights MUST come first.