Smoking bans...

[Tab]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Or they could just quit pussy-footing around and ban the sale of cigarettes entirely.

Banning things usually creates all sort of negative outcomes including organized crime and such (see prohibition). Taxing it to shit is the right policy choice.

Same goes for all negative externalities - driving w/o seatbelt ($$ ticket), drinking ($$ taxes), being obese ($$ premiums), DUIs ($$ premiums, tickets )

This creates the EXACT same thing.

Care to elaborate how banning smoking indoors will create a black market for smoking indoors? It's banning substances/things not regulating behavior....

What?

Excessive taxation or Sin Tax is not only a tax on the poor it creates a black market. You'd be surprised how many Ukrainian cigarettes you find in a place like Fargo, ND.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This has been debated to death. I understand the argument for not interfering with people's businesses... but I have to be honest. I love the shit out of the smoking ban here in CA. Being able to go to the bar and come home not smelling like disgusting cigarettes is amazing. Even my friends who smoke love the smoking ban. The bars here have changed things around and even the bartenders and bar owners that I know down here in OB love it. Everyone has won.

People who are against the smoking ban have a reasonable argument, but still guys... I bet when it actually happens a lot of people will change their minds.

Pfft.

Hasn't abortion, gay marriage, etc been debated to death too? Maybe we should just give up :rollseyes:

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Or they could just quit pussy-footing around and ban the sale of cigarettes entirely.

Or they coud really stop pussy-footing and ban the sale, manufacture and consumption of alcohol!

What's needed is a framework off regulatory parity for tobacco, alcohol and marijuana. Tax them, keep them out of the hands of children, keep them off the streets.

I would fully support this, but I'm kind of afraid to buy corporate weed. Somehow, I think we'd end up with something that is more processed and full of dangerous chemicals and preservatives. If legalizing means I can't grown my own organic weed, then I'll just settle for being a lawbreaker.

The way it is now you have absolutely no idea or effective method of recourse if you're getting a bad product.

sure I do. If someone sells me something I don't like, I don't by from them anymore.

If all of a sudden all that is available is Government Approved Marijuana from brand X,Y or Z, then where do I turn when I'm not satisfied?

What I am suppose to do if I am sold a product that isn't a strong as it is advertised? I can't take them to court.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: Tab

What I am suppose to do if I am sold a product that isn't a strong as it is advertised? I can't take them to court.

Yea, that would be a bullshit, frivolous lawsuit anyway. You don't NEED to take them to court.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: Tab
heh... People get criticized for smoking but for being overweight which is just as bad? No, that's rude :roll:

I agree. Fatties deserve our scorn as well.

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Or they could just quit pussy-footing around and ban the sale of cigarettes entirely.

But that means they'd lose the taxes gained by it's sale. but these bans are for "health"....:roll: The only way I'll ever believe that is if they ban the sale of it. If it's really so bad that we have to protect people who choose to go to places where it is used then it should just be plain banned. But that assume consistency....something the anti-smoking nazis and local/state gov'ts seem to lack

I dunno, it seems like a fair compromise to me. Protect the health of non-smokers by minimally infringing on the rights of smokers without the outright banning of cigarettes.

If smokers cared so much about it, they should have voted against it. They lost. Democracy Inaction (a [bad]joke, not a typo)

A lot of smokers and non-smokers voted agaisnt the ban however we're out numbered by old grandmas whom don't goto the bar but all their friends died from cancer. :roll:

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This has been debated to death. I understand the argument for not interfering with people's businesses... but I have to be honest. I love the shit out of the smoking ban here in CA. Being able to go to the bar and come home not smelling like disgusting cigarettes is amazing. Even my friends who smoke love the smoking ban. The bars here have changed things around and even the bartenders and bar owners that I know down here in OB love it. Everyone has won.

People who are against the smoking ban have a reasonable argument, but still guys... I bet when it actually happens a lot of people will change their minds.

Pfft.

Hasn't abortion, gay marriage, etc been debated to death too? Maybe we should just give up :rollseyes:

I don't really care what you do and it wasn't really the focus of my post. My post was about how just about everyone loves the cigarette ban here in CA.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Robor
This topic has been debated to death already. In the end it's a matter of public health protection.

No, it's not. It's screw-your-neighbor democracy.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Thank God the government is here to watch over and protect me, as I am incapable of doing so myself. I don't smoke, I've never smoked, and I hate the smell of smoke. I'm so glad the government is willing to step in and tell everyone that they must cease the legal activity they enjoy so that I may feel comfortable in someone else's establishment. Thank God I live under a system that enforces my right to tell others what to do to make me happy. That's the American way!

Best post of the thread.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This has been debated to death. I understand the argument for not interfering with people's businesses... but I have to be honest. I love the shit out of the smoking ban here in CA. Being able to go to the bar and come home not smelling like disgusting cigarettes is amazing. Even my friends who smoke love the smoking ban. The bars here have changed things around and even the bartenders and bar owners that I know down here in OB love it. Everyone has won.

People who are against the smoking ban have a reasonable argument, but still guys... I bet when it actually happens a lot of people will change their minds.

Pfft.

Hasn't abortion, gay marriage, etc been debated to death too? Maybe we should just give up :rollseyes:

I don't really care what you do and it wasn't really the focus of my post. My post was about how just about everyone loves the cigarette ban here in CA.

I'm not surprised it's fucking California however I'd rather live with nanny-state liberals than the bigots,xenophobes that populate the Mid-West.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: Tab
A lot of smokers and non-smokers voted agaisnt the ban however we're out numbered by old grandmas whom don't goto the bar but all their friends died from cancer. :roll:

I really don't have any sympathy here because of voter turnout numbers. If anything less than 100% of the people vote, then they're own apathy is to blame.

The idea of old people voting for their friends dying from cancer is funny though, nice touch

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: Tab
A lot of smokers and non-smokers voted agaisnt the ban however we're out numbered by old grandmas whom don't goto the bar but all their friends died from cancer. :roll:

I really don't have any sympathy here because of voter turnout numbers. If anything less than 100% of the people vote, then they're own apathy is to blame.

The idea of old people voting for their friends dying from cancer is funny though, nice touch

I'm not kidding. The amount of elderly the voted for this is completely absurd.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Tab

I'm not surprised it's fucking California however I'd rather live with nanny-state liberals than the bigots,xenophobes that populate the Mid-West.

Me too, plus it never really gets below 50 degrees here in the winter and never gets much above 85 here in the summer.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Or they could just quit pussy-footing around and ban the sale of cigarettes entirely.

Or they coud really stop pussy-footing and ban the sale, manufacture and consumption of alcohol!

Horray!

That's not really equivalent, as there are still other tobacco products available.

Okay, how about hard liquor?

Make it wine coolers and I'll be on board

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: Tab
A lot of smokers and non-smokers voted agaisnt the ban however we're out numbered by old grandmas whom don't goto the bar but all their friends died from cancer. :roll:

I really don't have any sympathy here because of voter turnout numbers. If anything less than 100% of the people vote, then they're own apathy is to blame.

The idea of old people voting for their friends dying from cancer is funny though, nice touch

Actually, these smoking bans represent a misapplication of democracy. Smokers are a minority of the population, as are bar patrons. You're having everyone vote on something that will only affect a minority. So you can't blame voter apathy, but voter prejudice, fear, hatred of their neighbors, and lack of education.
Meh. America may have moved on from racism and sexism, but it has not moved on from the basic mentality behind it.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Tab

I'm not surprised it's fucking California however I'd rather live with nanny-state liberals than the bigots,xenophobes that populate the Mid-West.

Me too, plus it never really gets below 50 degrees here in the winter and never gets much above 85 here in the summer.

Fargo, ND. Out of all the places in the world we get the highest amount of temperature fluctuations. -30 with a -60 windchill and 100f in with 85% humidity...

Why do I live here?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Thank God the government is here to watch over and protect me, as I am incapable of doing so myself. I don't smoke, I've never smoked, and I hate the smell of smoke. I'm so glad the government is willing to step in and tell everyone that they must cease the legal activity they enjoy so that I may feel comfortable in someone else's establishment. Thank God I live under a system that enforces my right to tell others what to do to make me happy. That's the American way!

Best post of the thread.

No, it's a bunch of drivel from faux-libertarian morons with 0 grasp of economics or public policy. Keep voting Ron Paul....

You can smoke all your want if you guarantee me that all your future health care cost associated with smoking will be out of pocket and none of the smoke enters anyone else's lungs.


Actually that goes for anything else for that matter; drive w/o seatbelt all you want but your family will be responsible for the cost of scraping your carcass off the highway.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk

Originally posted by: Tab
A lot of smokers and non-smokers voted agaisnt the ban however we're out numbered by old grandmas whom don't goto the bar but all their friends died from cancer. :roll:

I really don't have any sympathy here because of voter turnout numbers. If anything less than 100% of the people vote, then they're own apathy is to blame.

The idea of old people voting for their friends dying from cancer is funny though, nice touch

Actually, these smoking bans represent a misapplication of democracy. Smokers are a minority of the population, as are bar patrons.

Thats a good point, I never thought of it that way. I already said I was against the bans. When I had a chance to vote for it, I just left that field blank because It didn't affect me. I don't smoke and I rarely goto bars.

Still got no sympathy for those who complain but don't vote though.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Tab

I'm not surprised it's fucking California however I'd rather live with nanny-state liberals than the bigots,xenophobes that populate the Mid-West.

Me too, plus it never really gets below 50 degrees here in the winter and never gets much above 85 here in the summer.

Fargo, ND. Out of all the places in the world we get the highest amount of temperature fluctuations. -30 with a -60 windchill and 100f in with 85% humidity...

Why do I live here?

I used to live in Philly which would get pretty cold in the winter (although nowhere near that cold), and about that unbearably hot in the summer. Then I decided it sucked and moved to the beach in southern California. Best. choice. ever.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Tab

Seriously, whatever happen to businesses being able to run and manage themselves? We even banned smoking even at the Cigar Bar.

Seriously, whatever happened to businesses caring about the health, not to mention the productivity, of their employees by providing safe workplaces?

Whatever happened to cities and states working to keep common areas safe and toxin free for all of their citizens?

Hell... Why should they give a sh8 whether the cost of treating tobacco related diseases far exceeds any imagined losses by businesses who would rather put immediate profits ahead of public safety?

Grow up, get over yourself and deal with your own addictions on your own time, in your own space. When it comes to tobacco contamination, sharing is NOT a friendly act. :|

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Thank God the government is here to watch over and protect me, as I am incapable of doing so myself. I don't smoke, I've never smoked, and I hate the smell of smoke. I'm so glad the government is willing to step in and tell everyone that they must cease the legal activity they enjoy so that I may feel comfortable in someone else's establishment. Thank God I live under a system that enforces my right to tell others what to do to make me happy. That's the American way!

Best post of the thread.

No, it's a bunch of drivel from faux-libertarian morons with 0 grasp of economics or public policy. Keep voting Ron Paul....

You can smoke all your want if you guarantee me that all your future health care cost associated with smoking will be out of pocket and none of the smoke enters anyone else's lungs.


Actually that goes for anything else for that matter; drive w/o seatbelt all you want but your family will be responsible for the cost of scraping your carcass off the highway.

Are you going be there to put the condom on everytime I have sex, too? :heart:

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Did I read the part where it said "the same state that bans smoking is giving subsidies to bar owners to erect smoking rooms outside." incorrectly?

Why is this a bad thing?

Beats me, I think it sounds like a reasonable compromise.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Robor
This topic has been debated to death already. In the end it's a matter of public health protection.

No, it's not. It's screw-your-neighbor democracy.

Maybe but it doesn't change the fact that 2nd hand smoke is a health hazard.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Did I read the part where it said "the same state that bans smoking is giving subsidies to bar owners to erect smoking rooms outside." incorrectly?

Why is this a bad thing?

Beats me, I think it sounds like a reasonable compromise.

As do I. Here in FL (in my area anyway) many restaurants and bars that fall into the smoke free rules have added or expanded outdoor seating to accommodate smoking guests.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Thank God the government is here to watch over and protect me, as I am incapable of doing so myself. I don't smoke, I've never smoked, and I hate the smell of smoke. I'm so glad the government is willing to step in and tell everyone that they must cease the legal activity they enjoy so that I may feel comfortable in someone else's establishment. Thank God I live under a system that enforces my right to tell others what to do to make me happy. That's the American way!

Best post of the thread.

No, it's a bunch of drivel from faux-libertarian morons with 0 grasp of economics or public policy. Keep voting Ron Paul....

You can smoke all your want if you guarantee me that all your future health care cost associated with smoking will be out of pocket and none of the smoke enters anyone else's lungs.


Actually that goes for anything else for that matter; drive w/o seatbelt all you want but your family will be responsible for the cost of scraping your carcass off the highway.

Are you going be there to put the condom on everytime I have sex, too? :heart:

If you're planning on having sex with everyone in the room, against their wishes, then that's the least we can do...

I've got no problems with whatever habits you chose to support, but do it on your time, dime and space.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Thank God the government is here to watch over and protect me, as I am incapable of doing so myself. I don't smoke, I've never smoked, and I hate the smell of smoke. I'm so glad the government is willing to step in and tell everyone that they must cease the legal activity they enjoy so that I may feel comfortable in someone else's establishment. Thank God I live under a system that enforces my right to tell others what to do to make me happy. That's the American way!

Best post of the thread.

No, it's a bunch of drivel from faux-libertarian morons with 0 grasp of economics or public policy. Keep voting Ron Paul....

You can smoke all your want if you guarantee me that all your future health care cost associated with smoking will be out of pocket and none of the smoke enters anyone else's lungs.


Actually that goes for anything else for that matter; drive w/o seatbelt all you want but your family will be responsible for the cost of scraping your carcass off the highway.

Are you going be there to put the condom on everytime I have sex, too? :heart:

If you're planning on having sex with everyone in the room, against their wishes, then that's the least we can do...

My point is that your own economic and public policy is whack. Next thing we all know, you're going to want to ban extreme sports too, along with sex. OMG we could hurt and it might cost you money!

:roll: