Smoke from new computer, should I continue to build it?

[Grimbor]

So far having an aweful time trying to build a computer. I got absolutely no instructions with my ATOP case and the chaintech NF4 ultra MB comes with very little by way of instructions.

So... I'm struggling through this and everything is a pain. Getting the IO shield to fit into the case and snap in without instructions (I almost pulled off all the snap tabs before realizing what they were). Getting the stock A64 fan on the cpu was a 30 min ordeal as I had to keep trying it facing different directions and finally figured out it required a huge amount of force to get both connectors snapped inplace before pulling that lever. Again, no instrctions, just a confusing series of diagrams. Ended up with thermal grease spread around a bit and probably came close to snapping the MB with the amount of pressure needed.

Then installed the DDR which took alot of force to snap in, put a 20 to 24 PS adapter and tried to power it on to test. Nothing. Figured out needed the power sw connector plugged into the MB to power it on, not sure where all the rest of them go as many are labeled differently on my psu then whats listing in the mb manual. Installed PCIe vid card (6600 so no extra power needed).

Anyways, powers on and all fans are spinning. I'm happy. Then imediatedy smell something nasty, like burning metalic plastic. Turn off. Nothing seems hot. Turn back on. Smell gets stronger. Put my face in the case to try and track down the source by smell. Notice one of the ram chips has a small stream of smoke coming from it. Turn off. Immediately checked the ram and see that one of the gold teeth is totally black. The other one has a few flecks of black over a couple of the gold teeth. I installed one of the ram chips backwards I think, but it still snapped in place. Put the DDR back in and now the odor is just a lingering effect from before and everything seems to be running ok.

No beeps but don't think any speaker is hooked up yet, not sure though, cant find the right wiore for one. So, I hook it up to a monitor and nothing happens. Monitor only flashes it's green light when this computer is hooked to it with a blank screen, when no computer is there it gives the no signal message so something is getting through.

Um... do I need to continue building to get this to post? Do I need to add a HD, floppy and do all the MB connections? I just wanted to get into the BIOS to see if either the ram or MB got fried. I heard of others doing this to their ram but getting lucky and not destroying it. The MB seems to be channeling all the power through ok, all fans are spinning just fine. Help!

 

[FlyingPenguin]

Cases never come with instructions. If you had questions you should have asked. This is not a project to jump into lightly.

Motherboard manuals never come with much in the way of written instructions. There is, however, a full manual in PDF format on the driver CD that came with the motherboard. Should have been the first thing you went through in detail.

It's almost impossible to insert a memory stick backwards, unless you left it sitting crooked in the socket (which should have been a dead giveaway).

It's also possible you have a screw or spacer in the wrong place under the motherboard and it shorted out something.

Once you burned the memory stick WHAT WOULD POSSESS you to re-insert and power on again?

You caused a short circuit. The burned memory stick is now junk. Throw it away unless you want to keep it as a momento.

You're lucky if you haven't also damaged the motherboard, PSU, CPU, drives, any other memory sticks or cards.

Try booting the system WITHOUT the burned memory stick installed and only the video card installed (disconnenct ALL other drives and cards). Then pray.

You'll need the speaker conected to hear any POST error codes.

If it doesn't POST you're going to have to swap out components to try to figure out what's damaged. Chances are it's the mobo itself.

At this point your best option would probably be to take it to a mom & pop computer shop (NOT a retail store) that has a reasonable minimum labor rate and let them look at it and give you an estimate of the damage. You're in over your head and you're already out the cost of one memory stick.

 

[Homerboy]

maybe you shouldnt be building your own PC? Thats some expensive thing to learn on.

 

[Grimbor]

I know I had all the risers aligned correctly. I also used the rubber washers over the holes before screwing in the MB. I actually have built several systems in the past with no problems from 386s to my current XP1700. This computer however, has been one problem after another. This MB seems more confusing then any other I have worked with.

I also thought it was impossible to get a ram chip in backwards fully seated and snapped in place, that's why it was not one of the things I was paying very much attention to as both clips snapped into place and the ram was in straight and fully seated. I researched this a bit after it happened and some people have reported a similar experience but their ram and MB were working ok despite some blackening of the ram teeth. Thus I wanted to determine if I got lucky.

I tried booting with no ram, just the vid card but no luck. Monitor just flashes it's power light. I'm wondering if I should just finish building the system by adding the HD, CD rom, connecting all the little MB wires and a mouse and keyboard and then see if it posts.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
maybe you shouldnt be building your own PC? Thats some expensive thing to learn on.

Best way to learn is get a mom-n-pop shop to build you a PC. It won't have any proprietary compoents like the big OEMs do. You can then upgrade a component at a time for a few years. When the time comes you'll be comfortable building one from scratch.

Waaaaaaaaay back in the day I built my very first one from scratch. It's easy now, but boy what a pain then.

 

[Polishwonder74]

Oh man, you're really having a rough time!! Don't listen to these naysayers. This is how we all learned, (help from a good friend is always makes it quite a bit easier). You sort of HAD to turn it back on. How else would you be able to narrow down what the probelm was, telepathy?? My guess that RAM stick is smoked, who made it? Almost all RAM from decent copanies nowadays has a lifetime warranty. I recently had a stick of Kingston HyperX die on me, RMA'd for free. As for your build, check out this guide from our boy Mechbgon:
http://www.omnicast.net/~tmcfadden/guides/build/caseprep1.html

He has bailed like 3/4 of us out of a jam at some point, and put together a VERY good guide. Follow those step-by-step (including grabbing a bunch of candy bars). If I were you, I would try running on that other stick of RAM (I wouldn't put it in the same slot that the other one burned up in, it could still turn out that your motherboard is bad, maybe a bad RAM slot. Hopefully you did a good job with the thermal grease on the CPU (that's a VERY important step) unless you used a stock cooler with that crap already on there (We all reccommend Arctic Silver). Even without the HD, CD-ROM, you should be able to POST, but you might as well connect them. I suppose it's also possible that you got a crappy power supply that burned up everything.

So run through that guide and see if you can't find your problem, and drop us another post if you're still stuck.

Good luck, dude! :beer:

 

[jackschmittusa]

Grimbor

You make it kind of hard to believe that you are an experienced builder, i.e.

I got absolutely no instructions with my ATOP case

The most you can expect is an exploded parts diagram.

Getting the IO shield to fit into the case and snap in without instructions (I almost pulled off all the snap tabs before realizing what they were).

Why would you think that you would need to modify an i/o shield to make it fit?

Ended up with thermal grease spread around a bit and probably came close to snapping the MB with the amount of pressure needed.

Hardly know what to say here.

Figured out needed the power sw connector plugged into the MB to power it on, not sure where all the rest of them go as many are labeled differently on my psu then whats listing in the mb manual.

You needed to figure out that the start switch needed to be hooked up to turn it on? Psu and mb labeling?

No beeps but don't think any speaker is hooked up yet, not sure though, cant find the right wiore for one.

You mean that you might have accidently hooked it up?

I also thought it was impossible to get a ram chip in backwards fully seated and snapped in place, that's why it was not one of the things I was paying very much attention to as both clips snapped into place and the ram was in straight and fully seated.

You mean you guessed at the proper orientation, then put one stick in one way, then an identical stick in the other way?

If you were a noob, I would have some sympathy for you. But as an experienced system builder like you say you are, I don't.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Polishwonder74

Almost all RAM from decent copanies nowadays has a lifetime warranty.

How do you find it appropriate that he should get a new stick of ram after he damaged it? People who damage components and return them for warranty replacement cost the rest of us money.

It is also a form of fraud if you have a conscience.

 

[Grimbor]

I'm not an expert builder, but all my other builds came with clear documentation for the MB and case and the connectors were labeled the same so it was easy for me to configure them. It took me all of 20 mins to put the cpu on, get my SK6 on the cpu, put in the memory and vid card then test for post before installing everything else with no problems. Maybe I was too overconfident not going slow and double checking things.

It's really sickening for me though because it took me close to 6 months of working full time to save up enough cash to get these items. Since this was my own fault, I won't even bother trying to return anything so I guess I'll just start saving again for a new MB and RAM, pray the CPU wasn't fried and pay a computer shop to build it if I cant get this thing to post at all.

 

[Creston]

Grimbor,

I do feel sorry for you, but it does seem as if you've fried some things. However, your sentence "I did it myself, so I won't try to return anything" really shouldn't be there.

I have a guy here at work with me who fried three motherboards, HIMSELF, in space of a month. He just RMA's them and gets new ones. It's almost impossible for motherboard manufacturers to prove that YOU did it, and so they are very easy with RMA'ing stuff.

Similarly for your memory sticks. Call the manufacturer (or go online), explain that you just put the memory in and it fried. I'd be very surprised if you don't get an RMA authorization.

Btw, it's pretty easy to play both manufacturers off against the other. When you contact the mobo people, tell them that their motherboard ALSO fried your RAM. When you contact the memory people, tell them that their memory ALSO fried your motherboard.
They won't offer to replace the part that's not theirs, but they should be a lot more receptive to replacing those dead parts.

And don't feel bad about it, if they had included proper instructions, this wouldn't have happened in the first place. I've built a ton of systems myself, and even I was sweating and cursing at my last system because the manual (in Taiwanese Engrish) was confusing, and at two points just plain WRONG (it told me to insert the processor in wrong, for example).

When you get new items, and you are having issues, PLEASE POST FIRST. As you can see, this is a very expensive hobby, and frying your stuff is not the way to learn. Also, that guide that's linked above is excellent and comes heartily recommended.

Don't hesitate to come back in and ask again, despite some of the slightly less than supportive comments (come on guys, give him a break.)

Creston

 

[Creston]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Polishwonder74

Almost all RAM from decent copanies nowadays has a lifetime warranty.

How do you find it appropriate that he should get a new stick of ram after he damaged it? People who damage components and return them for warranty replacement cost the rest of us money.

It is also a form of fraud if you have a conscience.

I don't really agree there Jack. Most memory manufacturers and motherboard manufacturers know that their products are going to be bought by people who put together their own machines, and they also know that some of their product is going to be put together incorrectly. If they REALLY wanted to avoid any issues of user error, they would only ship to OEMs.

Most of them are actually pretty understanding if you try to ship something back. Why else would a mobo manufacturer RMA hairline cracks in your mobo? It's pretty likely that you did that yourself when you snapped on the cooler...

So I don't necessarily see it as fraud. The LEAST they could do is include proper manuals. My motherboard manual told me to line up the gold triangle corner on my AMD64 to the corner closest to the lever. Funny enough, it's actually the corner diagonally opposed to that where that triangle needs to go. A noob user would figure the manual was correct, and wreck his processor in the process.

As long as they keep shipping out bad manuals like that, they need to deal with the occasional user error return.

Btw, he puts in memory, turns on the board, and his memory starts to burn. I fail to see how that happened because of something he did wrong.
The only thing that made me wince in his story is the paste being smeared over his processor. I can, however, "fondly" remember the first time I tried to get my stock heatsink over my Athlon XP, and how it took me an HOUR to get the damn thing on there.

I think you're being unduly harsh on him. No offense.

Creston

 

[Creston]

Originally posted by: Grimbor
I also thought it was impossible to get a ram chip in backwards fully seated and snapped in place, that's why it was not one of the things I was paying very much attention to as both clips snapped into place and the ram was in straight and fully seated.

If it was in straight and fully seated, it was seated correctly. There is no possibility of you actually managing to force the ram in to such an extent that it would seat straight while being in backwards. That's just impossible. You'd actually have to force solid plastic / silicon onto that bridge to such an extent that the bridge would be locked inside your RAM. That'd take some real strength, and it would NOT snap.

So I don't think you did anything wrong in that aspect.

Creston

 

[lenjack]

Creston...WOW! If we all did as you suggest, hardware would double in price.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Creston

Cite for me a warranty that covers replacement for user error and I will reconsider my claim of fraud.

 

[modedepe]

So now stealing from companies is ok, Creston? While I do feel sorry for Grimbor, if he broke it, he broke it. He shouldn't ask that some company pay for his mistake. I am glad to see he doesn't expect that.

 

[FlyingPenguin]

Morally he broke it and he's wrong for trying to RMA it. REALISTICALLY we've all fried SOMETHING due to our own fault and sent it back for RMA.

Fact is that it's tough to prove neglect or abuse of a component because there's usually no tell-tale signs.

HOWEVER, I doubt he has a snowball's chance in hell of getting it replaced under warranty. He has a BURNED chip. That's rather obvious, and since they know it didn't leave the factory that way, they probably won't cover it. They will have a valid point that it was either caused by the failure of another component, neglect/abuse or lightning/surge damage (none of which are covered under a warranty).

He might get lucky and maybe they'll replace it if they're nice, but they wouldn't be under any obligation to do so. Some of the better companies are pretty good about this.

 

[stevty2889]

Sorry creston, but I really feel that it's very wrong to RMA something that you broke yourself, just like I feel people the sue, because they burned themself with coffee, because the cup didn't say warning hot on it, are wrong. Your own lack of common sense should not be somebody elses responsibility, if everyone thought that way, this world would be doomed to failure.

 

[fuzzynavel]

Originally posted by: Grimbor
Getting the stock A64 fan on the cpu was a 30 min ordeal as I had to keep trying it facing different directions and finally figured out it required a huge amount of force to get both connectors snapped inplace before pulling that lever.

Forgive me if I am being stupid but why was he touching what I presume to be the CPU fixing lever after attaching the Heat sink????
I've always made sure that the CPU is seated properly first then applied thermal paste and then the heat sink......never had issues getting it on......getting it back off is another story though!!

 

[jackschmittusa]

FlyingPenguin

REALISTICALLY we've all fried SOMETHING due to our own fault and sent it back for RMA.

Please reconsider your use of the word "all". I have never even considered sending back a part I've screwed up. I am certainly no saint, but I learned a long time ago that the honorable thing to do when you made a mistake was to buck up, and take it like a man. Probably not very PC to talk like that today, but I grew up a long time ago when such lessons were deemed important.

 

[Polishwonder74]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Polishwonder74

How do you find it appropriate that he should get a new stick of ram after he damaged it? People who damage components and return them for warranty replacement cost the rest of us money.

It is also a form of fraud if you have a conscience.

Good point.

 

[Creston]

Originally posted by: lenjack
Creston...WOW! If we all did as you suggest, hardware would double in price.

Not really. There aren't that many RMA's being sent compared to the volume of sales.

Btw, I can see that I'm apparently offending a ton of people here, so let me clarify.
All I'm saying is that he RMA it. If the manufacturer then looks at the hardware and says "no way this is due to a fault of our motherboard / memory", they will send it back to him and won't replace it.

NOT RMA'ing it means it would never be replaced. Who is a better judge for determining what's user error and what not? You, or the hardware manufacturer?

You all seem to be very certain that he somehow screwed up that memory himself. How exactly do you burn a Dimm yourself, if all you do is put it into your memory slot and turn the board on??

What if his motherboard actually DID have an issue in the DIMM socket, and burned his memory because of it? And then he doesn't RMA it, because you've convinced him that he's messed it up himself...

by Jackschmitt :

Cite for me a warranty that covers replacement for user error and I will reconsider my claim of fraud.

You and I both know that obviously they aren't going to state so in their warranty, because then they would have to replace ALL user errors, including the ones that say "I don't get it, all I did was dump a bucket of water in there to get rid of the dust, while it was running."
However, I'm seeing my colleague at work sending three motherboards off to RMA that he fried himself, and he's already got two replacements back. So obviously, they're a bit more forgiving than you think.

by modepe

So now stealing from companies is ok, Creston? While I do feel sorry for Grimbor, if he broke it, he broke it. He shouldn't ask that some company pay for his mistake. I am glad to see he doesn't expect that.

Where am I saying that he should steal from companies? All I'm saying is, get it RMA'd. If that means you have to lay it on a bit heavily by doing the "You broke both items" to each manufacturer, so be it. Despite what you seem to think, they will STILL examine the item, and determine if it's user error or not.
I fail to see what's so bad about RMA'ing something. *shrug*

by FlyingPenguin

They will have a valid point that it was either caused by the failure of another component, neglect/abuse or lightning/surge damage (none of which are covered under a warranty).

And as such, they won't replace it. However, it's possible the motherboard manufacturer checks that DIMM socket, and finds out that a power connector was loose, or connected wrongly, and caused the memory to fry.

I mean, or are you all under the impression that that NEVER happens or something?

by stevty2889

Sorry creston, but I really feel that it's very wrong to RMA something that you broke yourself, just like I feel people the sue, because they burned themself with coffee, because the cup didn't say warning hot on it, are wrong. Your own lack of common sense should not be somebody elses responsibility, if everyone thought that way, this world would be doomed to failure.

In all honesty, stevty, you're comparing apples and oranges. An RMA is just you sending the item back for review. It's not guaranteed that they will replace it. It's not guaranteed that their item is at fault. But if you automatically assume that it was your own fault, you won't ever get anything replaced, even if perhaps it WAS broken.
I'm not saying that he immediately sues them, or demands reparations. It's just an RMA.

by Jackschmitt

Please reconsider your use of the word "all". I have never even considered sending back a part I've screwed up. I am certainly no saint, but I learned a long time ago that the honorable thing to do when you made a mistake was to buck up, and take it like a man. Probably not very PC to talk like that today, but I grew up a long time ago when such lessons were deemed important.

That is very honorable Jack, but you seem awfully sure that that DIMM fried because of something he did. When you screwed up a part, were you always certain that it was 100% your own fault?

And I find it strange that noone seems to have any issues with manufacturers providing just plain BAD manuals. I mean, I know what I'm doing, but my manual specifically states to seat the CPU wrong into the 939 socket. So had I done what the manual said, and put that CPU in, and would have fried the motherboard or CPU, would I have been wrong for RMA'ing it?

Again, all I'm saying is, give them a call, explain what happened. "I put the motherboard together, but the RAM into the DIMM sockets, turned on the PC, the DIMM fried. I want to know if this is a manufacturing fault, can I RMA this item. And if it's the fault of your motherboard, what do I do about the fried memory?"
And to the memory manufacturer, you make the same call, and ask them what do I do about the motherboard?

I really don't see how this translates to : OMG CRESTON YOU THIEF!!!!!

:?

Creston

 

[Grimbor]

Playing around with my system, it is very likely I was mistaken about putting the dimm in backwards because I can't replicate doing that with both tabs snapping in place, plus both dimms show burn damage. I do see a melted spot on the MB dimm slot that corresponds to the burn mark on the worst burnt ram chip, so it seems they were in fact installed the correct way. I just assumed I may have installed them backwards because when I researched why a dimm would burn up like that, it seemed backwards installation was the cause in all cases.

To cover a few other things. I was not as incompetent as my original post may have sounded. When I said I got thermal paste all over while struggling with the HS, I meant by the time I got the heatsink snapped in place, the CPU was already covered by the default thermal paste AMD puts on their heatsink, but it was only spread on the CPU and seemed pretty uniform. I wasn't grinding the heattsink side to side or touching the paste, in fact I was even wearing surgical gloves when building. The lever I was talking about pulling in the end was not the CPU lever as someone else assumed, it was the lever for the heatsink to latch it into place.

Now, another post has me a bit worried as well because I did match the arrows on the CPU with the MB and followed the limited MB directions in placement of the CPU, but now I am wondering it it went in the right way. I did line up the triangle with the triangle on the MB and the CPU dropped fully in place with gravity, and the CPU lever went down with no problem, but am still a bit worried it went down correctly.

A friend suggested taking a dimm from my old system and trying it out to see if the machine will post, but this presents another concern. Since the original dimms seemed to be in place right, I may well burn out my old dimm testing it. And maybe the problem isnt my MB but instead the 450 watt L&C PSU that came with the case.

Last problem is even if I try and RMA the MB, I cant get the heatsink off, it's just too tightly affixed. Even using a screwdriver, I still can't get enough force on it to get the clip off the MB fastener, and I'm really afraid if I go all out in forcing it I'll either crack the MB, crack the CPU chip or the screwdriver will slip out and slam into the MB.

Really, I was pretty careful putting this thing together, I just don't have the knowledge to troubleshoot when things go wrong like they have.

 

[Grimbor]

Just tried switching out the ram. It won't post with ram from my old computer. However, I put the 2 burned ram chips in my old computer and they seem fine as I was able to play WoW for a few hours with no problems and the full gig seemed to be used just fine. So I guess now I'm down to it either being the MB or PSU or both. I guess I'll keep this ram even though it has noticeable burn marks on it and some of the gold teeth are black.

 

[FlyingPenguin]

Oh man, now I'm wondering if this is a gag. Visible burn marks on the chips but they work in another computer? Hmmm...

 

[Yellow Dog]

if you need to ask that question...... then NO!