Small Iowa Town Police Obtain $733,000, 49,000-pound, Armored Vehicle for Free!

[rommelrommel]

SWAT vans are generally up-armored. I'm not sure to what extent, but 7.62x39mm seems likely as that is a fairly low powered centerfire rifle round.

Most of it is steel core and relatively likely to pierce a significant amount of steel. I can't claim any exhaustive knowledge of what SWAT teams usually use for vehicles but even your average armoured vehicle can be compromised by enough 7.62x39 hits.

 

[ivwshane]

Not sure if you're proposing that the SWAT team previously took the bus or hitch-hiked, but I suspect neither is correct. This will likely either replace another vehicle or share time with another vehicle. Accordingly, the maintenance cost will be defrayed either totally or partially depending on the other vehicle.

I'm sure the small town of less than 8000 has a swat team!

 

[Jhhnn]

Most of it is steel core and relatively likely to pierce a significant amount of steel. I can't claim any exhaustive knowledge of what SWAT teams usually use for vehicles but even your average armoured vehicle can be compromised by enough 7.62x39 hits.

So what? Given enough hits, you could sink a battleship with a BB gun.

 

[rommelrommel]

So what? Given enough hits, you could sink a battleship with a BB gun.

Umm no, you can't, obviously.

The vehicles have some added utility over a bread van or a suburban, even if armored. Whether it's worth the cost is debatable.

 

[unokitty]

Militarizing America's main streets won't make us any safer, just more fearful and more reticent. Before another small town's police force gets a $700,000 gift from the Defense Department that it can't maintain or manage, it behooves us to press pause on Pentagon's 1033 program and revisit the merits of a militarized America. And do it now before Kankakee looks like Kabul or Boise looks like Baghdad. --USA Today

Future Boise looking like Baghdad?

Future Kankakee looking like Kabul?

LOL

Can't we at least give credit to the 11 police officers that constiute Washinton Iowa's police force. Its not like they crashed their MRAP before they even got it to their small town... Unlike at least one other town...

Police Acquisition of Armored Vehicles, Costly Crash Under Scrutiny

Mayor Debbie Franklin said Friday evening the city council was not consulted publicly about acquisition of the 18-ton armored vehicle before the Sept. 16 crash on Interstate 10 in Buckeye, west of Phoenix, which has resulted in a claim of more than $42,000 against the City of Banning...

According to an Arizona Department of Public Safety crash report, Feola was driving the 2007 International Navistar MaxxPro MRAP about 5:30 p.m. Sept. 16 at an estimated speed of 75 miles per hour, west on the 10, when two tires on the MRAP blew out.

The 37,000-pound MRAP veered and struck a westbound Ford pickup driven by Steven M. Wells on the passenger side, pushed it into the median, and kicked up rocks, dirt and other debris that damaged an eastbound Chevrolet Impala, according to the crash report...

The Banning Police Department remained in possession of its MRAP this week. Retrofitting a surplus armored military vehicle for law enforcement can cost $100,000 or more. Whether Banning police will be allowed to keep their newest one remains to be seen.

LOL

Uno

 

[Paratus]

They absolutely do not need that stuff. It really makes you wonder if the government's long game is to prepare for the oncoming police state.

We all know how this ends.

The Quarterback is toast!

 

[alkemyst]

Yeh, they're preparing for another parade, and to be able to better handle what really are very, very rare occurrences.

I worked on equipment my whole life, some of it military. I know how it works. MRAP's likely have very few truly specialized parts but are rather Klewged together with parts off the shelf with just enough engineering to get them out the door & get paid as often & as fast as possible. Having been sent to fight a very bad idea of a war, the Pentagon needed to reduce casualties to keep waging it as a political necessity. Or, they'd buy damned near anything that seemed to fit the bill at the time, the more the merrier. There were 24,000 procured over just a few years. Testing & development? Don't make me laugh.

I agree. IMHO these vehicles are designed to induce cash flow type things. AKA the $1000 military spec toilet seat people joke about. Sadly, I don't think these are so much about reducing casualties as making it look like they are trying at least.

Maintenance nightmare? What did you expect? Every one is a semi-custom hand job originating from several manufacturers under a rather loose set of specifications.

The cops don't care. It's a great toy & they're having fun with it. If the cost per mile is excessive, they won't put many miles on it. If they have to & can modify it to make maintenance easier, they will. If they can't keep it running at a cost acceptable to the town, they'll scrap it, sell it, or turn it into a war memorial.

Pork barrel? both of the Bush era conflicts were total pork barrels, conceived & executed in a way to maximize profit for all the right people. There never was any other reason for Iraq, nor for the prolonged occupation of Afghanistan, either. The trick is to hold casualties to a level acceptable to the public so that the cash keeps coming in as long as possible. If you think the Bush Admin actually ever gave a rat's ass about the troops, you're sadly mistaken.

Cops at least around here abuse their cop cars. Same with our officials down here that all have Expeditions and the like and use them 24/7 and have even been caught loaning them out.

 

[Knowing]

I can't remember who said it, but some talking head had a sound byte that went something like "Weapons of war don't belong on our streets." I don't agree with what they were talking about (cosmetic accessories), but I do agree with the statement.

More than a couple of these were bought with stimulus funds, along with quite a few select fire weapons.

 

[waggy]

personally i think shit like this is a mistake. the police already think of themselves as soldiers and not keepers of the peace.

to them its a "us vs them". so something like this is going to get used.

 

[MongGrel]

Congrats, you're a special kind of stupid. I know this because you have read nothing related to this vehicle but your knee-jerk reaction just cannot be contained.

Hardly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY&hd=1

I'm hardly anti military, former Marine myself, and I do have done a lot of military work myself in my career in tool & die.

But some things were too little too late, or just pushed when they weren't really useful and a complete waste of money.

The whole Marine Corps Osprey Program was one of the biggest wastes of money I think I can remember offhand, those things were in development when I was in in the early 80's and i still believe they do not work as originally intended after all that money poured into that program just because they wanted them.

 

[momeNt]

Well considering police are outnumbered by civilians by a factor of thousands if not more. How else do you expect them to win?

We should all be proud that the common citizens is so feared. It means they are starting to take us seriously.

 

[boomerang]

Hardly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY&hd=1

I'm hardly anti military, former Marine myself, and I do have done a lot of military work myself in my career in tool & die.

But some things were too little too late, or just pushed when they weren't really useful and a complete waste of money.

The whole Marine Corps Osprey Program was one of the biggest wastes of money I think I can remember offhand, those things were in development when I was in in the early 80's and i still believe they do not work as originally intended after all that money poured into that program just because they wanted them.

So...you're ivwshane's alt account? Forget who you were posting as?

 

[Exterous]

Second, you're speaking of MRAPs being used daily over often torturous terrain. A SWAT MRAP used a couple days a month will hardly need that level of maintenance. I'd be surprised if the MRAP needed much if any more maintenance than a SWAT van built by taking a panel truck and adding tons of armor and equipment.

I'm not fond of this idea for several reasons, but maintenance costs are not a concern I would have.

And why would a township with 10 police officers with a lower than average crime rate need a SWAT vehicle in the first place, let alone an MRAP? And who is paying for the retrofit? I have not seen anyone get a free retrofit. The $50-100,000 cost (according to the news agencies) either comes out of the department's budget or they get grants for it

The military also has higher costs for parts/serviceable items due to their specifications.

I doubt the manufactures are going to make cheaper parts for the police when there is no competition to make them do so.

I never heard of a Semi requiring $60k-$80k for maintenance a year and that includes the ones that are performing cross country service, so I seriously doubt these lightly used MRAPs will either.

In 2013 the military spent~ $1M per MRAP on Operations and Maintenance. VSE was awarded a 4.5M a month contract to maintain\repair ~650 MRAPs or just under $80,000\yr per vehicle. I am not saying the MRAPs will need the same level of service for police duty but these do not appear to be cheap options for the small police department budgets that are getting them

http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/Documents/defbudget/fy2013/fy2013_OM_Overview.pdf

I guess we'll see but I don't believe the cost to maintain an MRAP for an 8 person police department is going to be a good use of their funds

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I doubt the manufactures are going to make cheaper parts for the police when there is no competition to make them do so.

When the MRAP's drive train is based on semi truck chassis, they will be able to use standard OEM replacement parts rather those those that have to meet mil specs.

In 2013 the military spent~ $1M per MRAP on Operations and Maintenance. VSE was awarded a 4.5M a month contract to maintain\repair ~650 MRAPs or just under $80,000\yr per vehicle. I am not saying the MRAPs will need the same level of service for police duty but these do not appear to be cheap options for the small police department budgets that are getting them

I guess we'll see but I don't believe the cost to maintain an MRAP for an 8 person police department is going to be a good use of their funds

Guess you missed my last post.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36251550&postcount=72

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20131126/NEWS03/711259873

Annual maintenance costs were estimated to be $500 a year by County Highway Superintendent James L. Lawrence Jr.

See answers in bold above.

 

[Pocatello]

The U.S Army won't be using the MRAP for future conflict. The MRAP cost a lot of money, but it did save lives. The Army is already looking for something different, with good protection from IED with much more maneuverability.

 

[MongGrel]

So...you're ivwshane's alt account? Forget who you were posting as?

Me, no alt here.

I find it hard to believe you think the world is so small people do not have similar opinions.

Oh wait a minute.....

 

[brandonb]

This reminds me of a link a friend sent me a few months ago:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/17/the-cops-at-ohio-state-have-an-armored-fighting-vehicle-now/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/18/ohio-state-university-armored-truck_n_3949750.html

A college campus PD is getting an armored vehicle. In case of a school shooting. Heheh.

 

[yllus]

I'd rather see the vehicle scrapped despite being like-new than used in this manner. Some things are more important than money.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'd rather see the vehicle scrapped despite being like-new than used in this manner. Some things are more important than money.

Perhaps. I just see it being in the middle of lightly populated Iowa as better than other alternatives. It's completely useless in that setting, a cosmic joke, a love song to authoritarian stupidity on multiple levels.

Jim DeMint should go there & give a speech praising the cops' steadfastness in the face of the "Terrarist Threat!", then lead a snipe hunt through the cornfields.

 

[werepossum]

Most of it is steel core and relatively likely to pierce a significant amount of steel. I can't claim any exhaustive knowledge of what SWAT teams usually use for vehicles but even your average armoured vehicle can be compromised by enough 7.62x39 hits.

It's not something of which I can claim much knowledge, but from a brief Google search looks like SWAT vans are armored against 7.62x39mm and even 7.62x51mm.
http://www.swat-truck.com/
http://www.alpineco.com/armored/swat/pointer-swat.php
http://www.lencoarmor.com/

As far as being compromised by enough 7.62x39 hits, that is going to require either a machinegun or a LOT of shooters striking in the same small area.

I'm sure the small town of less than 8000 has a swat team!

I'd bet money on it. Virtually every small town now has a SWAT team, although they would not be full time in such a small town. SWAT teams are growing like crazy, which is why they are so often used for highly inappropriate police tasks.

The U.S Army won't be using the MRAP for future conflict. The MRAP cost a lot of money, but it did save lives. The Army is already looking for something different, with good protection from IED with much more maneuverability.

And Army procurement being what it is, likely the next time they are needed they will have neither the something different nor the MRAP.

 

[Zorkorist]

It's like the $500 toilet, except now Government kills with their excess in funds.

-John

 

[Jhhnn]

I'd bet money on it. Virtually every small town now has a SWAT team, although they would not be full time in such a small town. SWAT teams are growing like crazy, which is why they are so often used for highly inappropriate police tasks.

Well, yeh, cuz of them Terrarists! & Commies! out there in the corn, along with nefarious knee-grows plying white women with the Devil's Weed. Having a SWAT team & an MRAP is a totem, a talisman that magically keeps 'em away.

God only knows what might happen if it were any other way.

 

[werepossum]

Future Boise looking like Baghdad?

Future Kankakee looking like Kabul?

LOL

Can't we at least give credit to the 11 police officers that constiute Washinton Iowa's police force. Its not like they crashed their MRAP before they even got it to their small town... Unlike at least one other town...

Police Acquisition of Armored Vehicles, Costly Crash Under Scrutiny

LOL

Uno

One of the major problems with distributing military kit to police departs is that the officers will not understand the equipment. No one familiar with the MRAP is going to be driving it at 75 mph unless under fire.

And why would a township with 10 police officers with a lower than average crime rate need a SWAT vehicle in the first place, let alone an MRAP? And who is paying for the retrofit? I have not seen anyone get a free retrofit. The $50-100,000 cost (according to the news agencies) either comes out of the department's budget or they get grants for it

I doubt the manufactures are going to make cheaper parts for the police when there is no competition to make them do so.

In 2013 the military spent~ $1M per MRAP on Operations and Maintenance. VSE was awarded a 4.5M a month contract to maintain\repair ~650 MRAPs or just under $80,000\yr per vehicle. I am not saying the MRAPs will need the same level of service for police duty but these do not appear to be cheap options for the small police department budgets that are getting them

http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/Documents/defbudget/fy2013/fy2013_OM_Overview.pdf

I guess we'll see but I don't believe the cost to maintain an MRAP for an 8 person police department is going to be a good use of their funds

Incredible shrinking police force? Went from 11 to 10 in eight posts and from 10 to 8 just inside your post!

I would not argue that they need it or that it will be a good use of their funds, just not as calamitous as some feel. Until it gets some age on it, of course. Then they'll just petition for a new one. Of course, by that time they'll probably be able to just levy an instant tax on the citizens and buy their own.

 

[Zodiark1593]

And why would a township with 10 police officers with a lower than average crime rate need a SWAT vehicle in the first place, let alone an MRAP? And who is paying for the retrofit? I have not seen anyone get a free retrofit. The $50-100,000 cost (according to the news agencies) either comes out of the department's budget or they get grants for it

Well, considering they have it already, and there's probably no functioning SWAT to begin with, Better to keep it and not ever use it, than to really need it one day, but not have it.

 

[rommelrommel]

It's not something of which I can claim much knowledge, but from a brief Google search looks like SWAT vans are armored against 7.62x39mm and even 7.62x51mm.
http://www.swat-truck.com/
http://www.alpineco.com/armored/swat/pointer-swat.php
http://www.lencoarmor.com/

As far as being compromised by enough 7.62x39 hits, that is going to require either a machinegun or a LOT of shooters striking in the same small area.

I know those exist but they are a quarter mill+ to purchase. Does your average smallish town swat team have those? I live in a suburb of 450k people and have never seen ERT come out for anything with more than a suburban. I'm not even sure that we have one of those. Some of the suburbs around here do, but they are all high population.