Small Iowa Town Police Obtain $733,000, 49,000-pound, Armored Vehicle for Free!

[Londo_Jowo]

So if it's not going to be used for its intended purpose, will see very little use, mostly sit in a garage, why is it needed? Free to buy is not free to own. Why should taxpayers pay even a dollar more this over an alternative?

What is this doing that a Tahoe, or even armored car can't do?

Why don't you ask the taxpayers in Iowa? Maybe they approve of the police acquiring this vehicle for free.

 

[Bitek]

White elephant -

noun. :an idiom for a valuable but burdensome possession of which its owner cannot dispose and whose cost (particularly cost of upkeep) is out of proportion to its usefulness or worth. The term derives from the story that the kings of Siam (now Thailand) were accustomed to make a present of one of these animals to courtiers who had rendered themselves obnoxious, in order to ruin the recipient by the cost of its maintenance. In modern usage, it is an object, scheme, business venture, facility, etc., considered without use or value.

How is it not this ?

 

[DominionSeraph]

If they do let you work on it you still need a lot of training - 12 days worth for those already familiar and working on military vehicles.

This is seriously only a 12 day school? And you think this means it's somehow complicated to maintain?

My ISABPS/Verdin school was over two months long and we never even opened up a single piece of the gear. It was expected we knew how to troubleshoot the equipment so the school was just about operating/configuring the 4x redundant system.
12 days means little more than basic familiarization is needed.

 

[Oldgamer]

They absolutely do not need that stuff. It really makes you wonder if the government's long game is to prepare for the oncoming police state.

I ask that myself every damn day when we see pretty much every law enforcement department gearing up militarily.

 

[alkemyst]

There is a lot of heavy arming being done by police lately.

Tin Foil Beanie time perhaps, but IMHO they are preparing for something.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

This is seriously only a 12 day school? And you think this means it's somehow complicated to maintain?

My ISABPS/Verdin school was over two months long and we never even opened up a single piece of the gear. It was expected we knew how to troubleshoot the equipment so the school was just about operating/configuring the 4x redundant system.
12 days means little more than basic familiarization is needed.

My daughter said it was easier to work on than the Bradley Fighting Vehicle (her first assignment in the Army). She also says the chassis/power train was based off a International Powerstar 7000 semi. This being said maintenance on the MRAPs will be along the same lines as maintaining a Semi truck.

 

[ivwshane]

My daughter said it was easier to work on than the Bradley Fighting Vehicle (her first assignment in the Army). She also says the chassis/power train was based off a International Powerstar 7000 semi. This being said maintenance on the MRAPs will be along the same lines as maintaining a Semi truck.

Which of course will be easy since most small town police forces have semis. So I'm sure their regular mechanic will have no problem working on semis, right? I'm sure there won't be money spent on training on, not only how to fix and maintain said vehicles but also on how to use them. All of that, of course, is free as well.

/s

So to recap:
The cost of the vehicle = $0
The need for such a vehicle = none
The cost for maintenance = ? >$0
Training to use the vehicle = ? >$0
Total cost to local tax payers = ? >$0

Sounds like a smart idea!

 

[werepossum]

Which of course will be easy since most small town police forces have semis. So I'm sure their regular mechanic will have no problem working on semis, right? I'm sure there won't be money spent on training on, not only how to fix and maintain said vehicles but also on how to use them. All of that, of course, is free as well.

/s

So to recap:
The cost of the vehicle = $0
The need for such a vehicle = none
The cost for maintenance = ? >$0
Training to use the vehicle = ? >$0
Total cost to local tax payers = ? >$0

Sounds like a smart idea!

Most small town police departments do not have mechanics; they hire out their maintenance and repair work. Finding a qualified mechanic will not be difficult as this is largely a civilian truck. The difficult part will be, as someone mentioned before, the fiddly bits like the actuators which make a 600 pound door open like a 60 pound door while keeping it secure against accidentally opening. Which raises the amusing possibility of a joke.

"Sir, the SWAT team is locked in their truck again. We have someone trying to get them out with a coat hanger."

 

[Exterous]

This is seriously only a 12 day school? And you think this means it's somehow complicated to maintain?

My ISABPS/Verdin school was over two months long and we never even opened up a single piece of the gear. It was expected we knew how to troubleshoot the equipment so the school was just about operating/configuring the 4x redundant system.
12 days means little more than basic familiarization is needed.

Sorry - I thought I had edited out my mistake. It is a 6 week course called MRAP-U

This thread had reached comedy gold status.

My daughter (heavy diesel mechanic) worked on MRAPs the last 18 months of her service in the Army and she said those who think the MRAPS require tons of maintenance and are hard to work on are making statements based on pure ignorance. She said that those being used in mild police service would be a dream to work on compared to those used in combat/rough terrain conditions.

*shrug* I could pass along anecdotal evidence from someone I know that they are very maintenance intensive. His platoon's spent more time being maintained than driven. But maybe she doesn't consider $60-80k a year maintenance intensive

 

[Zargon]

Most small town police departments do not have mechanics; they hire out their maintenance and repair work. Finding a qualified mechanic will not be difficult as this is largely a civilian truck. The difficult part will be, as someone mentioned before, the fiddly bits like the actuators which make a 600 pound door open like a 60 pound door while keeping it secure against accidentally opening. Which raises the amusing possibility of a joke.

"Sir, the SWAT team is locked in their truck again. We have someone trying to get them out with a coat hanger."

and an OK sized city will send a tech from the city garage to training

LOL at seraph, comparing sending a certified mechanic to a 12 day class on a up armored SEMI to sending a know nothing newbie navy squid to a encrypted comms system training

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Which of course will be easy since most small town police forces have semis. So I'm sure their regular mechanic will have no problem working on semis, right? I'm sure there won't be money spent on training on, not only how to fix and maintain said vehicles but also on how to use them. All of that, of course, is free as well.

/s

So to recap:
The cost of the vehicle = $0
The need for such a vehicle = none
The cost for maintenance = ? >$0
Training to use the vehicle = ? >$0
Total cost to local tax payers = ? >$0

Sounds like a smart idea!

Most police departments including those in decent size cities do not have automotive maintenance crews. Most police vehicles are maintained by the respective make's dealerships. Based on the fact that trucks provide much of the shipping in the country, there are dealerships in most all decent sized cities that could preform the maintenance on the MRAP. Based on the fact these MRAPs will not be traveling cross country on a weekly basis their maintenance costs will not be that high.

With all that being said: Thank you for yet another laugh, you political hacks crack me up.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

*shrug* I could pass along anecdotal evidence from someone I know that they are very maintenance intensive. His platoon's spent more time being maintained than driven. But maybe she doesn't consider $60-80k a year maintenance intensive

I was in the military and we performed maintenance on equipment whether it needed it or not (Planned Maintenance System). The military also has higher costs for parts/serviceable items due to their specifications. These MRAPs that are going to be used by civilian police dept will not be seeing the environment that those in military service have/are seeing. I never heard of a Semi requiring $60k-$80k for maintenance a year and that includes the ones that are performing cross country service, so I seriously doubt these lightly used MRAPs will either.

 

[Jhhnn]

There is a lot of heavy arming being done by police lately.

Tin Foil Beanie time perhaps, but IMHO they are preparing for something.

Yeh, they're preparing for another parade, and to be able to better handle what really are very, very rare occurrences.

I worked on equipment my whole life, some of it military. I know how it works. MRAP's likely have very few truly specialized parts but are rather Klewged together with parts off the shelf with just enough engineering to get them out the door & get paid as often & as fast as possible. Having been sent to fight a very bad idea of a war, the Pentagon needed to reduce casualties to keep waging it as a political necessity. Or, they'd buy damned near anything that seemed to fit the bill at the time, the more the merrier. There were 24,000 procured over just a few years. Testing & development? Don't make me laugh.

Maintenance nightmare? What did you expect? Every one is a semi-custom hand job originating from several manufacturers under a rather loose set of specifications.

The cops don't care. It's a great toy & they're having fun with it. If the cost per mile is excessive, they won't put many miles on it. If they have to & can modify it to make maintenance easier, they will. If they can't keep it running at a cost acceptable to the town, they'll scrap it, sell it, or turn it into a war memorial.

Pork barrel? both of the Bush era conflicts were total pork barrels, conceived & executed in a way to maximize profit for all the right people. There never was any other reason for Iraq, nor for the prolonged occupation of Afghanistan, either. The trick is to hold casualties to a level acceptable to the public so that the cash keeps coming in as long as possible. If you think the Bush Admin actually ever gave a rat's ass about the troops, you're sadly mistaken.

 

[DominionSeraph]

LOL at seraph, comparing sending a certified mechanic to a 12 day class on a up armored SEMI to sending a know nothing newbie navy squid to a encrypted comms system training

LOL @ Zargon for not being able to read.
ISABPS/Verdin is an ET "C" school. There's a year of school that comes before it and you get E-4 upon graduation.

A "C" school is pretty much going to be a "C" school. There's only so much you can teach in a given time period.
Six weeks is a little different than 12 days, though.

 

[OutHouse]

Which of course will be easy since most small town police forces have semis. So I'm sure their regular mechanic will have no problem working on semis, right? I'm sure there won't be money spent on training on, not only how to fix and maintain said vehicles but also on how to use them. All of that, of course, is free as well.

/s

So to recap:
The cost of the vehicle = $0
The need for such a vehicle = none
The cost for maintenance = ? >$0
Training to use the vehicle = ? >$0
Total cost to local tax payers = ? >$0

Sounds like a smart idea!

your stupidity just went to epic.

 

[werepossum]

Sorry - I thought I had edited out my mistake. It is a 6 week course called MRAP-U


*shrug* I could pass along anecdotal evidence from someone I know that they are very maintenance intensive. His platoon's spent more time being maintained than driven. But maybe she doesn't consider $60-80k a year maintenance intensive

Two things. First, her comparison would be relative to other military vehicles. Compared to a Bradley, an MRAP would be very low maintenance.

Second, you're speaking of MRAPs being used daily over often torturous terrain. A SWAT MRAP used a couple days a month will hardly need that level of maintenance. I'd be surprised if the MRAP needed much if any more maintenance than a SWAT van built by taking a panel truck and adding tons of armor and equipment.

I'm not fond of this idea for several reasons, but maintenance costs are not a concern I would have.

and an OK sized city will send a tech from the city garage to training

LOL at seraph, comparing sending a certified mechanic to a 12 day class on a up armored SEMI to sending a know nothing newbie navy squid to a encrypted comms system training

Yep, assuming they use the city garage and the garage does not already have an MRAP-qualified tech. A fair number of heavy equipment technicians are military-trained.

 

[ivwshane]

Most police departments including those in decent size cities do not have automotive maintenance crews. Most police vehicles are maintained by the respective make's dealerships. Based on the fact that trucks provide much of the shipping in the country, there are dealerships in most all decent sized cities that could preform the maintenance on the MRAP. Based on the fact these MRAPs will not be traveling cross country on a weekly basis their maintenance costs will not be that high.

With all that being said: Thank you for yet another laugh, you political hacks crack me up.

So basically, as I pointed out but you were too stupid to understand, there are indeed cost associated with these vehicles even though they were free. Maintenance costs not being "that high", is you pulling shit from your ass, not being "that high", is still more than not having to pay for vehicle maintenance that you don't have.

Good thing the military lowered their admission standards, you'd probably be homeless. As a tax payer I say, you are welcome

 

[rommelrommel]

What should happen is that the military should store them until the next war when they're needed.

The military has stored a ton of them.

It's an MRAP. MINE RESISTANT ARMOR PROTECTED vehicle. How many mines, IEDs, and RPGs do you think it will save these small town cops from?


Yes it can block bullets from the once in a decade standoff w/ a guy with an ak, but so can even the most basically armored civilian vehicle.

It's a huge waste of money. They would do well to bolt a scoop from a front-end loader and use it to push whatever they need pushed.

What armored "civilian" vehicle do cops generally have that can stop rifle fire?

 

[ivwshane]

your stupidity just went to epic.

Your word count just reached a new high! Congrats on another well thought out post!

 

[werepossum]

The military has stored a ton of them.

What armored "civilian" vehicle do cops generally have that can stop rifle fire?

SWAT vans are generally up-armored. I'm not sure to what extent, but 7.62x39mm seems likely as that is a fairly low powered centerfire rifle round.

 

[werepossum]

So basically, as I pointed out but you were too stupid to understand, there are indeed cost associated with these vehicles even though they were free. Maintenance costs not being "that high", is you pulling shit from your ass, not being "that high", is still more than not having to pay for vehicle maintenance that you don't have.

Good thing the military lowered their admission standards, you'd probably be homeless. As a tax payer I say, you are welcome

Not sure if you're proposing that the SWAT team previously took the bus or hitch-hiked, but I suspect neither is correct. This will likely either replace another vehicle or share time with another vehicle. Accordingly, the maintenance cost will be defrayed either totally or partially depending on the other vehicle.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So basically, as I pointed out but you were too stupid to understand, there are indeed cost associated with these vehicles even though they were free. Maintenance costs not being "that high", is you pulling shit from your ass, not being "that high", is still more than not having to pay for vehicle maintenance that you don't have.

Good thing the military lowered their admission standards, you'd probably be homeless. As a tax payer I say, you are welcome

Let me guess, you wasted your parent's money on a basket weaver degree with a secondary major of political hack.

I somehow think most police departments can handle $500 in maintenance costs. Damn, that sounds in line with a semi that has very light service.

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20131126/NEWS03/711259873

Annual maintenance costs were estimated to be $500 a year by County Highway Superintendent James L. Lawrence Jr.

PS Thank you for helping pay for my education including 12 years of hands on training as it made it an easy path to a six figure salary that I enjoy now, which is damned nice considering I have no degree.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

As a tax payer

I forgot to ask, where you actually working and paying taxes between 1978 - 1990???

 

[Jhhnn]

What armored "civilian" vehicle do cops generally have that can stop rifle fire?

I don't really know for sure, but I suspect that standard armored cars will do so, depending on how they're outfitted. You know, like this-

Meh. that image didn't work well.

The armored trucks they use to deliver money.

 

[ivwshane]

your stupidity just went to epic.

Your word count just reached a new high! Congrats on another well thought out post!