Small Gov Utah making medical decisions for doctors

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tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,475
6,896
136
Party of small government indeed.

Seems to me this idea of small gov't being promoted by the Repubs have one very significant outcome: it makes the Repubs in Congress really look like the bunch of corrupted liars that they actually are.

And what's tragically funnier still, when the Repubs talk of shrinking the size of gov't, the first things they go for are those social programs that help the middle class and the poor the most, AND those gov't agencies that provide oversight of those businesses that really really want to scam the public for every nickle, dime and penny they can.

Going after those businesses that scam the gov't itself is streng verboten, as well as prosecuting all of those businesses that hire illegals.

I only wish the Repubs would push hard for lowering taxes for the middle class and the poor just as they do for the very wealthy.

But then, that would violate their ideology in the worst possible way, wouldn't it? ;)
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
The reason it's shrinking is because Manufacturers refuse to comply.

How many people in California has a flash hider or collapsible stock killed? When was the last time a firearm equipped with either was even used in the commission of a crime in the state of California?

Republicans are really despicable people.

Politicians are really despicable people.

ftfy
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,085
5,618
126
How many people in California has a flash hider or collapsible stock killed? When was the last time a firearm equipped with either was even used in the commission of a crime in the state of California?



Politicians are really despicable people.

ftfy

No idea.
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46

If the point of the law is to save lives then it really is germane how many people have been actually harmed by them.

If on the other hand, the intention is to restrict the public's right (read:privilege [according to our well meaning betters]) to own these arms then primarily aesthetic or ergonomic accessories can easily disqualify an otherwise compliant firearm.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,085
5,618
126
If the point of the law is to save lives then it really is germane how many people have been actually harmed by them.

If on the other hand, the intention is to restrict the public's right (read:privilege [according to our well meaning betters]) to own these arms then primarily aesthetic or ergonomic accessories can easily disqualify an otherwise compliant firearm.

How do those things restrict ownership? How many gun models actually have those features? I suspect very few. I can think of a reason for the restriction off the top of my head, those 2 features are convenient for concealment.

When California added regulation on vehicle emissions, were they trying to restrict ownership of vehicles?
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
How do those things restrict ownership? How many gun models actually have those features? I suspect very few. I can think of a reason for the restriction off the top of my head, those 2 features are convenient for concealment.

When California added regulation on vehicle emissions, were they trying to restrict ownership of vehicles?

A long gun is only marginally more concealable with a folding stock, and a flash hider only attenuates the flash and doesn't do anything about the report. If you're trying to find a gunman by the flash then things are already well and truly pear shaped. However, if you're a recreational shooter, not having to stare through the muzzle flash is kinder on the eyes.

CARB takes it too far, given any sane logic they'd be concerned about what comes out the tailpipe - not whether or not this tube or that tube has a CARB EO number.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,025
2,593
136
How do those things restrict ownership? How many gun models actually have those features? I suspect very few. I can think of a reason for the restriction off the top of my head, those 2 features are convenient for concealment.

When California added regulation on vehicle emissions, were they trying to restrict ownership of vehicles?

Essentially, the law is designed to prevent doctors from performing abortions, not to prevent women from seeking access. It places a burden that doctor's find incredibly unreasonable and in doing so, most doctors will simply decide to stop performing abortions. People in general don't care about whether they get anesthesia or not for minor procedures; in fact they would almost certainly want it in most cases and its the doctor who tells them its not necessary due to the risk associated with anesthesia compared to the risk of the procedure without anesthesia.

It's like passing a law that requires mechanics to reconstruct a cars transmissions even if the problem at hand is related to the alternator or the headlights or something. That won't restrict your desire to see a mechanic, but rather would definitely reduce the number of functional mechanics around. Most of them just wouldn't hassle with doing something so laborious and risky that they'd just quit all together.

This law is sure to be challenged in the courts as it will be a challenge of women's rights vs fetal rights on many grounds (medical ethics, even religious right). Its a shameful attempt by the Utah GOP to curb abortion rights. Absolutely shameless.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,085
5,618
126
A long gun is only marginally more concealable with a folding stock, and a flash hider only attenuates the flash and doesn't do anything about the report. If you're trying to find a gunman by the flash then things are already well and truly pear shaped. However, if you're a recreational shooter, not having to stare through the muzzle flash is kinder on the eyes.

CARB takes it too far, given any sane logic they'd be concerned about what comes out the tailpipe - not whether or not this tube or that tube has a CARB EO number.

Still don't see how it is an onerous restriction though.

In what way does CARB take it too far? I don't know much about the program, but it seems all the regulations are to limit emissions. The program has always had its' critics, but time after time these stricter regulations have been adopted by other jurisdictions because they are effective.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
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The reason it's shrinking is because Manufacturers refuse to comply.

While I'm on your side in this argument, the exact same thing can be said about abortions.

"The reason the number of abortions is shrinking is because doctors refuse to comply".

It's a shitty argument.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
Essentially, the law is designed to prevent doctors from performing abortions, not to prevent women from seeking access. It places a burden that doctor's find incredibly unreasonable and in doing so, most doctors will simply decide to stop performing abortions.

The reason it would shrink is because doctors refuse to comply.


Not that I agree, just pointing out exactly how bad of an argument this is for any of our rights.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,085
5,618
126
While I'm on your side in this argument, the exact same thing can be said about abortions.

"The reason the number of abortions is shrinking is because doctors refuse to comply".

It's a shitty argument.

I somewhat agree it's shitty, but the lack of compliance by the Manufacturers is not due to the requirement being onerous. They have other motivations, such as pressuring California from setting requirements on them at all.

They simply could comply and recover the extra Cost. Those interested in a handgun would still buy them regardless.
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
Still don't see how it is an onerous restriction though.

In what way does CARB take it too far? I don't know much about the program, but it seems all the regulations are to limit emissions. The program has always had its' critics, but time after time these stricter regulations have been adopted by other jurisdictions because they are effective.
Would I be correct to assume that recreational shooting isn't one of your hobbies? Perhaps that's why you don't see it as onerous.

CARB requires certain engine parts to have a CARB EO number for reasons. Often times these parts are inert tubes installed for performance or aesthetic purposes. This forces manufacturers to register their parts to be "50 state legal" with the cost passed down to consumers. California is still going to smog the car so possessing blessed parts doesn't guarantee a legal car. I agree with their stated goals and my car passes the sniff test, but it would be far from legal in the PRC.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
26,967
35,580
136
More Republican diagnosing from the congressional floor.

Didn't Terry Schiavo teach them anything??

Wait, you've been expecting the repubs to... learn from history??

You funny homie! :biggrin:
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
26,967
35,580
136
This. Is disconcerting.

Another poster just told me in a different thread that republicans aren't anti-women, they just don't want to give out free shit!
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,483
2,352
136
The reason it's shrinking is because Manufacturers refuse to comply.

And the reason the access to Abortion is shrinking is because Doctors refuse to comply with more regulations.

Good job completely avoiding the issue BTW... :thumbsup:
 
Dec 10, 2005
23,984
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And the reason the access to Abortion is shrinking is because Doctors refuse to comply with more regulations.
They refuse to comply or legislatures have created regulations that are impossible to comply with? I don't know if you realize, but there is a big difference between those two. Take for example the 'admitting privileges' requirement: it is a nearly impossible barrier for many abortion doctors to comply with, thanks to local hospital rules for admitting privileges.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,085
5,618
126
And the reason the access to Abortion is shrinking is because Doctors refuse to comply with more regulations.

Good job completely avoiding the issue BTW... :thumbsup:

The Regulations between the 2 are simply not of the same scope(no pun intended).