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thenarcissist73

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Nov 25, 2004
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I'm building a server for a small business, 5-10 people and I've never really built a server before, only desktop PC's so i'm not entirely sure as to the hardware I need.

This server is going to be running timberline accounting:
http://www.sagetimberlineoffice.com/software/sys_reqs/default.aspx

It will also be used as a file server.

We were quoted $10,000 for a 2.8Ghz Xeon machine which I know flat out is rediculous so i've decided to build it myself.

After an hour on newegg here's what i've picked out but i'm not sure if I need something better or if some of that is overkill.

http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wis...ow.asp?ID=1591802&WishListTitle=Server

Any advice would be highly recommended.

Thank You
 
Fullmetal Chocobo

Fullmetal Chocobo

Moderator<br>Distributed Computing
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May 13, 2003
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Well, I haven't seen the newer models, but I got my dual Xeon because the chipsets and features on the dual Opteron boards sucked... But like I said, I don't know how it is now.
But I sure am enjoying my Xeons. :)
Tas.

EDIT: Check my signature for a file server example. Could be used quite easily, although I would definitely change the video card. But I don't see a server costing over $3500...
 
mechBgon

mechBgon

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Focus on reliability and surivability, not power. I'd think about a hefty APC SmartUPS XL uninterruptible power supply, SCSI RAID1 for the OS, separate SCSI RAID1 for the data, dedicated HDD cooling, name-brand R-ECC memory, a good DLT tape drive with 10 tapes and a cleaning cartridge, a safe-deposit-box rental at the closest bank so you can keep tapes off-site... that's what makes a server special, not how much raw power is flyin' around inside the box but how hard it is to kill it for good. IMHO.
 
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thenarcissist73

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Nov 25, 2004
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Ok for CPU, you're saying Dual Operon is better than X2 64, so let me get this straight, which of these would be best?

1xSingle Core Operon
1xDual Core Operon
2xSingle Core Operon
2xDual Core Operon

And also can i get a motherboard that supports 2 Operons and only install 1 for now?

Mobo Recommendations quote welcomed as well.

Also this is for an office who is currently running on a novel system which i'm sure is less than 200mhz with one HD and a tape drive, so while they want something really good, and will pay almost anything required, overkill is not necessary.
 
Fullmetal Chocobo

Fullmetal Chocobo

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Originally posted by: thenarcissist73
And also can i get a motherboard that supports 2 Operons and only install 1 for now?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can start out with a single proc on a dual proc mobo, and put in the second proc later. You just have to install in in a the "first" socket. It'll be in the mobo manual.
Tas.
 
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thenarcissist73

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Nov 25, 2004
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Still wondering which CPU I should get, Dual Core 270 seems good, can i put 4 cores on a mobo?

So I need SCSI? Or is SATA sufficient? What about SATA2? Which RAID array would you recommend, I was going to put 2 of the drives on a RAID-1 and 3 on a RAID-5.

Also is onboard SIL3114 good enough or should i get a hardware based add-in card?
 
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wasserkool

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Jul 16, 2005
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Originally posted by: thenarcissist73
Ok for CPU, you're saying Dual Operon is better than X2 64, so let me get this straight, which of these would be best?

1xSingle Core Operon
1xDual Core Operon
2xSingle Core Operon
2xDual Core Operon

And also can i get a motherboard that supports 2 Operons and only install 1 for now?

Mobo Recommendations quote welcomed as well.

Also this is for an office who is currently running on a novel system which i'm sure is less than 200mhz with one HD and a tape drive, so while they want something really good, and will pay almost anything required, overkill is not necessary.
Click to expand...

the best CPU will be 2X Dual Core Opteron (not operon lol)

Yes, you can get a dual socket board and install a Single opteron (regardless of dual or single core) in that board and you'll have lots of future headroom for expansion.


This is a good board: http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8se.html

Now, if you plug in a single DUAL opteron CPU, you'll get essentially the performance of 2X SINGLE CORE OPTERON. In the future, if you need for performance, just get another dual core opteron, now with the SAME BOARD, you get a 4 PROCESSOR system
 
mechBgon

mechBgon

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Oct 31, 1999
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Originally posted by: thenarcissist73
Still wondering which CPU I should get, Dual Core 270 seems good, can i put 4 cores on a mobo?

So I need SCSI? Or is SATA sufficient? Which RAID array would you recommend, I was going to put 2 of the drives on a RAID-1 and 3 on a RAID-5.

Also is onboard SIL3114 good enough or should i get a hardware based add-in card?
Click to expand...
SCSI drives are built for high reliability (notice me harping on reliability). Read this document for some enlightenment on the difference between enterprise-class drives and personal-usage drives. There's some interesting stuff in there.

Controller-wise, I'd look at something like this one for the data array at least, and get some 80-pin Cheetah 10k.7's, including a hot spare, and put them in one of these Supermicro hot-swap racks. Yes, the controller alone does cost over $600. ;) These aren't toys.
 
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thenarcissist73

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Nov 25, 2004
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Originally posted by: wasserkool
Originally posted by: thenarcissist73
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131059
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103552

Comments?
Click to expand...

both are excellent choices...however for motherboard i still like tyan better since they specializes in server baords, just personal opnion
Click to expand...

I cant find the S2892 on newegg, how about the S2895?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813151148
 
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thenarcissist73

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Nov 25, 2004
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wasserkool

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Jul 16, 2005
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the S2895 is a good board, i think it has more featurest than the first board i showed u...both are excellent choices!

with regards to HD, i HIGHLY recommend SCSI for their reliability!
 
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thenarcissist73

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Nov 25, 2004
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I dont see anything but 68pin SCSI controller cards, I want something where I can create a RAID-1 array of 2x36GB 10K 80Pin drives, and a RAID-5 of 3x72GB 10K 80Pin drives.
 
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wasserkool

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Jul 16, 2005
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80 pins are for hot swapable drives, you don't need 80 pins SCSI HD unless u wanna hot-swap them...

all SCSI card 68 pin and u need a convertor to change it to 80 pin
 
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thenarcissist73

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Nov 25, 2004
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Ah gotcha, so the hotswap basicly converts them to 68pin? so a 68pin controller card would work on 80pin drives in a hotswap enclosure?
 
mechBgon

mechBgon

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Oct 31, 1999
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Originally posted by: thenarcissist73
Originally posted by: mechBgon
Controller-wise, I'd look at something like this one for the data array at least, and get some 80-pin Cheetah 10k.7's, including a hot spare, and put them in one of these Supermicro hot-swap racks. Yes, the controller alone does cost over $600. ;) These aren't toys.
Click to expand...

The case I was looking at is this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811152036

would I need a hot swap rack if I got that case?
Click to expand...
Yes, because the ones it's equipped with are for SATA, not SCSI.

I don't want to be unkind, but it looks like you're way over your head with this project. You shouldn't have to ask a stranger to look up the specs on the case, the info was literally one click away from Newegg's page there.
Ah gotcha, so the hotswap basicly converts them to 68pin? so a 68pin controller card would work on 80pin drives in a hotswap enclosure?
Click to expand...
More confirmation that you'd better not quit the day job (sorry) ;)
 
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thenarcissist73

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Nov 25, 2004
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Originally posted by: mechBgon
I don't want to be unkind, but it looks like you're way over your head with this project. You shouldn't have to ask a stranger to look up the specs on the case, the info was literally one click away from Newegg's page there.
Click to expand...

I've built more than 10 desktop systems before, i've never explored the world of opterons and xeons and servers before so yes i'm starting a bit slow, but thats the only way to start into something that you've never done before. In over my head would be if i was building this on my own without a group of strangers to help me :). Thats why I'm trying to ok everything with people who do know, and learning quite a bit in the process.

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Ah gotcha, so the hotswap basicly converts them to 68pin? so a 68pin controller card would work on 80pin drives in a hotswap enclosure?
Click to expand...
More confirmation that you'd better not quit the day job (sorry) ;)
Click to expand...

I'm sure you dont remember this but you helped me build my first system over a year ago, and at that time I didn't quite know exactly what I was doing but I learned and have now built systems for family and friends, asking for help never hurts the first time :)
 
mechBgon

mechBgon

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Oct 31, 1999
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All right, well I see a great deal of focus on how powerful the CPUs are, and not a lot on how bulletproof, fault-tolerant, available and recoverable the server will end up being ;) Remember, there's a bunch of people whose productivity will hinge on this thing, it's not your gaming rig where you can plow it under every 3 months.
 
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thenarcissist73

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Nov 25, 2004
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well i focused on the things i knew first, and i've said before I want a RAID-1 to put the OS on and RAID-5 for the data. Yes its not my gaming rig :p, i'll never touch the thing after its built probably, going back to my 3rd year of Software Engineering in the fall anyway.

And i've made the comment power isnt really that important compared to what these people are used to with their almost non-existant novel system, and everyone running 700mhz P3's in the office.

Now I'm not quite understanding how a hotswap works, or if i even need it. I dont see why these people would even be taking drives out of this server anyway.

Original Quote
 
Leros

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
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You dont need a 6600 video card for a server. Get the cheapest card you can find or onboard if the mobo has it.
 
mechBgon

mechBgon

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Oct 31, 1999
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Now I'm not quite understanding how a hotswap works, or if i even need it. I dont see why these people would even be taking drives out of this server anyway.
Click to expand...
Scenario:

You have your data array on a three-disk RAID5 array with a hot spare (a fourth drive that is running idle in its tray). You walk into the office at 9AM Monday morning, and find your server emitting an alarm. You look. Oh, drive 3 failed and that fancy SCSI RAID controller automatically grabbed the hot spare and used it to rebuild your RAID at 3:30AM on Saturday night. :cool:

Having planned for this eventuality, you open the padded box on the shelf and take out your spare Cheetah 10k.7. You pull out the tray containing the dead drive, put the new drive in its place, put the tray back into the running server, and hear 10000rpms of SCSI power up. The controller stops freaking out and assigns the new drive as its new hot spare.

Meanwhile the employees successfully close their $40,000 contract deal before the 10AM deadline. :) Their server stayed online, having been designed to take HDD failure in stride without having to go down for repair.

/storytelling :D

Ok, gotta go for a while :moon:
 
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