Small business server solution... suggestions?

[jcmuse]

ok, so i know i said in a previous thread that i was totally against it, but i have changed my mind.
What do you guys suggest for ~11 computer office. The server will be primarily used to host a quickbooks file. The office as a regular ADSL connection 3/384 (dont know if thats relevant)
Linux solutions are not an option and im looking to spend around $1,000. I'm leaning heavily towards a dell since we already have an account established with them.

im just looking for something that will serve me, the "IT dept head," and employees well.

 

[RebateMonger]

Hey, congrats!

I install and manage a lot of Dell servers. They are cheap and use good components. They are VERY commonly found as Small Business Servers. Even the lowest-end box, an SC430, would be OK for a ten-person office. Get at least 1GB of RAM, although SBS will run in 512MB. All Dell servers use error-correcting memory, so memory errors are pretty much non-existent.

If you are technically inclined, you can install a second SATA drive yourself and have a RAID 1 array, so if one drive fails, the server keeps running. Be sure to get a floppy drive with the server.

There is NO decision to be made about software. SBS 2003 is the obvious choice for most small businesses that don't have an IT department. Dell has had deals with basic SC420s or 430s for $600 including SBS 2003 Standard Edition, but that's not a normal occurance. The Premium Edition has some definite reasons for existence, especially if you need high-end accounting systems or CRM software that needs a SQL database or if you want to host public web sites. And the included ISA 2004 firewall is excellent if you want to monitor or control employee Internet usage. But the Standard Edition works fine for lots of companies.

You might consider buying SBS in the Retail version, instead of taking Dell's OEM install. It's less than $500 for the Standard Edition and gives you the option to move it to another Server if you later decide you want to move SBS to another box because your business or your server usage is growing. SBS itself will work fine for up to 75 users.

Be sure to plan on where to put your backups. The simplest and cheapest way is to have at least two external USB drives. Keep one attached and keep the second one offsite. Rotate them. If you do that, SBS will pretty much take care of the backups for you.

btw....once you get your server, you can easily set it so that twenty-character passwords are required of everyone....an easy way to avoid those doe99 passwords and get people using pass phrases.

I have some initial configuration hints in this AnandTech Forum post.

If you want to host your own email system (part of SBS and HIGHLY recommended...it makes email so much easier to manage and conrol), you'll want a business-class DSL connection. The difference is that they don't block port 25 (email) and 80 (web). It doesn't have to be a fast connection, but you don't want those blocked ports that home connections have.

 

[loup garou]

All you're using it for is hosting a single file? I'm not tracking down your other post for details.

Just buy a NAS device and back it up to another medium regularly.

 

[jcmuse]

the PowerEdge SC430 configured w/ SMB 2003 retail + a floppy drive comes out to $1,524. Does that look right? Do i install the software myself and setup the RAID?

From reading your other post, it seems like it is best to have traffic flow from...

dsl modem --> server ---> switch w/e --> computers

unfortunatley i don't think this is gonna workout as all the cabling leads outside to the warehouse which is kind of warm.

What is lost by doing:

dsl modem --> router --> 16port switch --> all computers (including server) ?

right now im doing ghost backups to cds, but i think i may switch to some external hdds.

are you sure all residential services block port 25 and 80?

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: jcmuse
the PowerEdge SC430 configured w/ SMB 2003 retail + a floppy drive comes out to $1,524. Does that look right? Do i install the software myself and setup the RAID?

Without knowing what kind of drives/memory/CPU/etc., it's hard to evaluate the pricing.

What is lost by doing:
dsl modem --> router --> 16port switch --> all computers (including server) ?

The Windows Firewall on SBS won't be available, and you won't be able to use most of the features of ISA 2004 if you later want a firewall or want to monitor or control Internet usage. Since you have to run a cable to the SBS Server, it only takes one extra cable to to loop the signal from the router to the SBS computer and back to the switch. Whatever you do, be sure that you use SBS as the DHCP server, the DNS server, and the Default Gateway for all your client PCs.Turn off DHCP in your router.

right now im doing ghost backups to cds, but i think i may switch to some external hdds.

CDs are WAY too much work (and I really don't trust them). And you won't be able to restore single files from a Ghost image. SBS will do your backups automatically, verify the results, and send you a report each morning. And you'll have the WHOLE server backed up, so you can get it back online fast if total disaster (fire, flood, theft) strikes.

are you sure all residential services block port 25 and 80?

No, they don't ALL block 25 and 80. But more and more do. Besides, you may find yourself in violation of your TOS. It all depends on the ISP. In many cases, business-level DSL is almost the same price as home-level DSL.

 

[Atheus]

Rebatemonger said pretty much what I was gonna say. Just one thing - I don't know about american prices, but that server sounds like a bit of expensive overkill to me. It only has to do one tiny thing... I'd get a Celeron or P3 running linux or win2k or something for a few hundred bucks. My dual P3 runs all kinds of services including database driven websites and media streaming and the CPU use averages are like 1-2%.

Also, If you have the server before the router it will need 2 interfaces and a strong firewall, neither of which are included with that dell (I think).

 

[RebateMonger]

I haven't suggested putting the Server before the router. If you use a router, you'd put it right after the DSL connection, and before the Server.

If a client REALLY only wants to host a single file, then, yeah, you can put it almost anywhere. Except that XP Professional will run out of it's connection limit at ten users. And you have to learn how to use Linux. And keep it patched.

I have nothing against Linux. But most small companies don't have an IT guy. And most small companies have lots of business needs that aren't met by simply having a file server. How do you handle shared contacts? Outlook can't do it by itself. How do you handle group calendars? Meetings? Backups? How do you manage security and passwords for the whole office? How many accounts and passwords will you need to configure to give access to all the computers in the office?

To get all these functions working in Linux. Windows XP, or standard Windows Server requires acquistion and configuration of a LOT of extra software. With SBS you get the whole thing preconfigured in one box, with wizards to help in the setup and management. And it comes preconfigured with proper security settings.

The TRUE cost of setting up and configuring a secure, functional, and easy-to-use solution to these common business problems makes a $1500 SBS server a steal.

 

[jcmuse]

i said linux is not an option because the server needs to be able to run quickbooks. Linux won't run quickbooks natively.
the only thing that dell small business has with 2 nics is the PowerEdgeTM 2850. Why don't the others have the option?

edit: will smb work with home edition xp? About half the computers are running home.

 

[JackMDS]

You can set the SBS and the rest of the Network around a regular Cable/DSL Router and use software firewall on each client computer.

By playing with DNS resolution and Gateway, it can be set so that the SBS controls all LAN Activities and act as a central server. However, when it comes to Internet each computer is on its own through the Router Gateway.

I would not suggest such a setting for large Network but when you have 10-20 computers, it might be manageable.

:sun:

 

[RebateMonger]

You can just toss in a second PCI network adapter. They are $5-$10 at the store.

You'll want to upgrade all your PCs to XP Professional. XP Home won't allow computers to join the Domain. It's not that you CAN'T connect them at all....but it'll be a pain to use the ones on XP Home. And they won't be able to receive security policies and other communications from the SBS Server. It'll cause access and administration problems.

The XP Home computers can be upgraded to Pro using the Upgrade Edition of XP Pro. No need to reformat them....just insert the XP CD and follow the instructions. As always, be sure to have copies of critical data someplace else.

You CAN connect XP Home computers remotely (from your house or when traveling), to do Remote Web Workplace and to retreive email. But the PCs physically located in the office should be on XP Pro.

You aren't going to actually want to RUN Quickbooks on the SBS Server. You'd run it on an XP client and keep the data file on the Server. While it's technically possible to run Quickbooks on an SBS server in Remote Administrator mode, you'd have to give that user Domain Administrator permissions. Not a good idea. And running ANY non-Server application on an SBS Server (Quickbooks is NOT supported by Intuit when running on a Server) is not a good idea. If Quickbooks crashes, it can take your Server with it.

 

[jcmuse]

if i didn't have to run quickbooks on the server, i would be all over a linux solution. Paying $500 + xp pro upgrades is not fun=)

Quickbooks 2006 must be installed on the computer that is hosting the company file, and the program must be running (or at least started and closed). This wasn't the case in 2004... don't know which genious decided to change it.

From what i can see, the upgrade edition of xp pro is more expensive than the regular oem. WTF? damn incompatibilties and ms with its unaffordable software. sigh.

 

[RebateMonger]

Quickbooks 2006 support: Moving Data files.

If you need five or more XP Professional licenses, you could consider getting MS Volume Licenses with Software Assurance. It costs a bit more, but you'll get free Vista upgrades to the equivalent Vista product for those PCs. There's also a $50 rebate on each license that can be used to pay for IT consulting services.

 

[jcmuse]

bro, you still need to run quickbooks for it to work. I'm gonna order a server from dell and figure out the software solution on the mean time. I will mostly likely get sbs 2003 and upgrade the other comps.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: jcmuse
bro, you still need to run quickbooks for it to work. I'm gonna order a server from dell and figure out the software solution on the mean time.

Yes, but you can run Quickbooks on your XP Pro clients. Quickbooks has had some serious security issues. It has required Local Administrator rights on the PC (that MAY be fixed with R3 of Quickbooks 2006). With the explosion of spyware and trojans, it's best to NOT have Local Admin rights on your PC. Click on the wrong thing, and the PC is trashed. You DEFINTELY don't want that to happen to your Server.

You can put the data file safely on the Server, and limit who can access it, Since it's easy to decrypt a Quickbooks data file, it's a good idea to keep the data file on a secured server. Unless you don't care who views your accounting data.

 

[jcmuse]

yes, i agree. That's what i do now, i have qb on an xp pro shared folder w/ ntfs permissions limiting who can access it. Unfortunately... in order for people to work from the database, quickbooks needs to be installed on the machine that is hosting the db file. Theres no way around it... thats the way it was designed.