SLI vs Crossfire article by Ratchet over at Rage3D.

[Keysplayr]

Text

 

[BFG10K]

It looks like ATi has some serious problems in their Crossfire drivers.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
It looks like ATi has some serious problems in their Crossfire drivers.

It seems that way. I was a little surprised as I thought CF has come farther along than this.
And Nvidia needs to work on it's AF for sure. Ratchet suggested Angle independent. (As if Nv would listen to him) hehe.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

It isn't that nV needs to work on AF, but stop intentionally sacrificing IQ in general for inflated FPS.

BTW, great to see someone using GRAW for the benchies.

 

[Keysplayr]

I also hope that ATI and NV will try to take Intel/AMD's approach to more efficient GPU's.
This power consumption and heat is out of hand. G80 and R600 will probably be very very hungry and hot GPU's.

 

[nitromullet]

even with the image quality advantages ATI has, it is nothing near enough to make up for the vast stability and usability disadvantages Crossfire has compared to SLI.

Wow, that will certainly strengthen the claim that Crossfire isn't as mature as SLI. Especially coming from Rage3D.

It seems that way. I was a little surprised as I thought CF has come farther along than this.
And Nvidia needs to work on it's AF for sure. Ratchet suggested Angle independent. (As if Nv would listen to him) hehe.

Why does he keep referring to it as AA though? He makes it sound as if ATI's AA and AF are better than NVIDIA's, which isn't the case. ATI's AF is definitely better, but NV's AA is at least as good as ATI's.

 

[Sable]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Why does he keep referring to it as AA though? He makes it sound as if ATI's AA and AF are better than NVIDIA's, which isn't the case. ATI's AF is definitely better, but NV's AA is at least as good as ATI's.

I can only assume because in his opinion the AA on the NV cards wasn't as good.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

nvm

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: gersson
What was the problem with GRAW and Crossfire...I get about 60 fps average (w/vsync triple buffering) @ 1680x1050...

I don't trust online reviews anymore :-(

On this page it doesn't show any issue with X1900XT CF

 

[theprodigalrebel]

I just breezed through the article, pretty casually. It appears,
Crossfire with two X1900XTs is great. Anything less is just masturbation.
SLI is pretty damn great no matter how you look at it.
A single ATi Flagship Card is pretty damn great - performance & IQ.

 

[Elfear]

Well that stinks. I was hoping Crossfire had come along a bit further too. I was looking for a master card but after reading this I'm thinking maybe I'll wait until R600 or G80 come out. Oblivion is giving my card a run for its money and I was hoping for a quick solution. Can current Crossfire owners give their opinions on the issues they've run into.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: Elfear
Well that stinks. I was hoping Crossfire had come along a bit further too. I was looking for a master card but after reading this I'm thinking maybe I'll wait until R600 or G80 come out. Oblivion is giving my card a run for its money and I was hoping for a quick solution. Can current Crossfire owners give their opinions on the issues they've run into.

Yeah, this gen is close to its end so if you wanna go crossfire, wait till next gen.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: gersson

Originally posted by: Elfear
Well that stinks. I was hoping Crossfire had come along a bit further too. I was looking for a master card but after reading this I'm thinking maybe I'll wait until R600 or G80 come out. Oblivion is giving my card a run for its money and I was hoping for a quick solution. Can current Crossfire owners give their opinions on the issues they've run into.

Yeah, this gen is close to its end so if you wanna go crossfire, wait till next gen.

On this page it doesn't show any issue with X1900XT CF

oops, didn't see that. Weird organization -- thanks.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Sable

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Why does he keep referring to it as AA though? He makes it sound as if ATI's AA and AF are better than NVIDIA's, which isn't the case. ATI's AF is definitely better, but NV's AA is at least as good as ATI's.

I can only assume because in his opinion the AA on the NV cards wasn't as good.

He does say that...

Their Anti-Aliasing quality lags behind that of ATI?s in just about every case, but of particular inferiority is their texture filtering.

...although, his support for this claim is non-existent. Having used high end hardware from both, I personally would challenge that claim. ATI's AF is definitely superior though.

 

[Sable]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
He does say that...

Their Anti-Aliasing quality lags behind that of ATI?s in just about every case, but of particular inferiority is their texture filtering.

...although, his support for this claim is non-existent. Having used high end hardware from both, I personally would challenge that claim. ATI's AF is definitely superior though.

I can pretty much guarentee he's used "high end hardware from both" as well.

You saying "support for this claim is non-existent" is daft because the same could be said of yours.

What we have here is a case of 2 opinions which :gasp: differ.

 

[nitromullet]

The difference is that I don't write reviews and post them on the web. Plus, I have done an IQ comparison between a GX2 and an X1900XTX and shared it with AT fourms, so my claim is not "daft".

http://www.mindspring.com/~caffeinated/

He provided enough documentation to back up his claim about AF IQ, why not for AA?

Look, I'm not a fanboy of either, and he basically does say that regardless of any IQ deficiencies, SLI is still better than CrossFire. I can afford either one, and I currently own a NV card and two X1900XTX's (one is for sale, the other is in transit from an RMA), so I don't really care who wins... All I'm saying is that there isn't much backing up his claim that ATI's AA is superior to NV's... Is evidence to back up a claim too much to ask from a review site?

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
The difference is that I don't write reviews and post them on the web. Plus, I have done an IQ comparison between a GX2 and an X1900XTX and shared it with AT fourms, so my claim is not "daft".

http://www.mindspring.com/~caffeinated/

He provided enough documentation to back up his claim about AF IQ, why not for AA?

Look, I'm not a fanboy of either, and he basically does say that regardless of any IQ deficiencies, SLI is still better than CrossFire. I can afford either one, and I currently own a NV card and two X1900XTX's (one is for sale, the other is in transit from an RMA), so I don't really care who wins... All I'm saying is that there isn't much backing up his claim that ATI's AA is superior to NV's... Is evidence to back up a claim too much to ask from a review site?

what driver settings were you running the x1900xtx on?

the white buildings on the second HL2 pic for the x1900xtx look really bad... the texture is all warped. so much for "superior" ATI AF quality :Q

 

[Keysplayr]

It also looks like 5 out of the 7 games did not work with crossfire. Little captions under photos says, "Tested as single."?? Weird.

 

[Ackmed]

About the AA, MikeC did the AA

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
It also looks like 5 out of the 7 games did not work with crossfire. Little captions under photos says, "Tested as single."?? Weird.

They can work, he just didnt get them to work. GRAW works fine, so does the demo of GT2. You either have to rename the exe, or force AFR thru the drivers, and it works fine. He used 6.6's, and the force AFR options wasnt until the 6.7's, so it wasnt available to him at the time of the article.

Makes you wonder about the selection of the games. Does anyone actually play these older, less popular games? Id wager hardly anyone plays several of the games in the article. And since you can now force AFR thru the drivers, most of it is moot. IMO, this article shows CF in worse light that it really is. There is no game I play, that CF doesnt work in, and I play a lot of games...

You're a little late posting this "negative" news, article is a few days old.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: nitromullet
The difference is that I don't write reviews and post them on the web. Plus, I have done an IQ comparison between a GX2 and an X1900XTX and shared it with AT fourms, so my claim is not "daft".

http://www.mindspring.com/~caffeinated/

He provided enough documentation to back up his claim about AF IQ, why not for AA?

Look, I'm not a fanboy of either, and he basically does say that regardless of any IQ deficiencies, SLI is still better than CrossFire. I can afford either one, and I currently own a NV card and two X1900XTX's (one is for sale, the other is in transit from an RMA), so I don't really care who wins... All I'm saying is that there isn't much backing up his claim that ATI's AA is superior to NV's... Is evidence to back up a claim too much to ask from a review site?

what driver settings were you running the x1900xtx on?

the white buildings on the second HL2 pic for the x1900xtx look really bad... the texture is all warped. so much for "superior" ATI AF quality :Q

4x/16x for both cards. HQ settings for both cards as well, all opts off except Cat AI.

Yeah, a number of people have commented on the buildings in that image. There is something wierd going on with the center building with the NV card as well though. If you really want to see how much better ATI's AF is, look at the first picture. ATI's AA is kind of odd in that pic though, as it looks like it is making branches, wires, fences, and other thin things thinner, sometimes causing them to disappear altogether. I've never seen any review sites make a mention (or show screenshots) of this phenomenon.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
About the AA, MikeC did the AA

I found the article that I think he is referring to http://www.nvnews.net/articles/gpu_world_tour_2006/page_3.shtml

However, I'm not getting that they concluded that NV AA was inferior to ATI's from that article. This whole multi-review site review is an interesting idea, but it's a bit jumbled so it's possible that I missed something.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
About the AA, MikeC did the AA

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
It also looks like 5 out of the 7 games did not work with crossfire. Little captions under photos says, "Tested as single."?? Weird.

They can work, he just didnt get them to work. GRAW works fine, so does the demo of GT2. You either have to rename the exe, or force AFR thru the drivers, and it works fine. He used 6.6's, and the force AFR options wasnt until the 6.7's, so it wasnt available to him at the time of the article.

Makes you wonder about the selection of the games. Does anyone actually play these older, less popular games? Id wager hardly anyone plays several of the games in the article. And since you can now force AFR thru the drivers, most of it is moot. IMO, this article shows CF in worse light that it really is. There is no game I play, that CF doesnt work in, and I play a lot of games...

You're a little late posting this "negative" news, article is a few days old.

Ratchet, did not get them to work? Ok, I guess he didn't put as much effort into getting Crossfire to work than is normally needed then for these games.

The selection of games? I suppose you would have prefered Ratchet to use only games that worked then? It is what it is. So by your logic, if hardly anyone plays the games, it's ok for CF or SLI not to work with them? Why would it be?

And why is this negative news? You are actually the only person in this thread that thinks it's negative in any way. Why is that? Ratchet tossed some complaints to both parties in that article. So, you go right ahead with your ATI damage control. How soon after an article is release does it need to be posted about before it is considered old? Please let me know in minutes and seconds. :disgust:

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


Ratchet, did not get them to work? Ok, I guess he didn't put as much effort into getting Crossfire to work than is normally needed then for these games.

The selection of games? I suppose you would have prefered Ratchet to use only games that worked then? It is what it is.

And why is this negative news? You are actually the only person in this thread that thinks it's negative in any way. Why is that? Ratchet tossed some complaints to both parties in that article. So, you go right ahead with your ATI damage control. How soon after an article is release does it need to be posted about before it is considered old? Please let me know in minutes and seconds. :disgust:

Its not a lot of work, but I do think that you shouldnt have to rename an exe to get a game to work in CF. ATi has said in their chat, that they are working on profiles, ala SLI's. Profiles is the biggest drawback to CF to me. But for me personally, it doesnt bother me, as renaming an exe is easy, and takes less than a minute. And now since you can force AFR thru the drivers, its not as big of a deal.

What it is, is that I would like to see games that I, or even most other people play. Can you honestly say that you play Pacific Fighters, Lock-On, Colin McRae Rally 2005, GT Legends, or Richard Burns Rally? Im sure some do, and Im sure some enjoy them greatly, just not very many. Im all for the "widen the spectrum of games" for video card reviews. Using only these games, just looks like they went out of their way to find games that had problems with CF. FS has used Lock-On and Pacific Fighters several times in reviews with CF, and never said it didnt work. But as I said, you can now force AFR in CCC, so most of this is moot. GRAW and GT2 demo work fine when doing this, I just tested them today. Two game they show as not working.

My comment was, that you're a little late slamming ATi. I would have expected you to be more on top of it, but I guess you're slipping... They didnt slam SLI at all, just IQ for NV. In fact, he said there was nothing negative to say about SLI at all. Guess he forgot about the horrid SLI AA performance compared to Super AA?

cliffs
You can force AFR thru the drivers now, resulting in CF working fine, in the games I tested that he said didnt work.

 

[Tangerines]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I also hope that ATI and NV will try to take Intel/AMD's approach to more efficient GPU's.
This power consumption and heat is out of hand. G80 and R600 will probably be very very hungry and hot GPU's.

I completely agree. It's really disappointing that the GPU's power consumption keeps going up, even as technology improves. If some of the rumors about the G80 and R600 are to be believed, then something really needs to be done.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

They can work, he just didnt get them to work. GRAW works fine, so does the demo of GT2. You either have to rename the exe, or force AFR thru the drivers, and it works fine. He used 6.6's, and the force AFR options wasnt until the 6.7's, so it wasnt available to him at the time of the article.

In other words, CF is a pain in the ass to use.

Makes you wonder about the selection of the games. Does anyone actually play these older, less popular games? Id wager hardly anyone plays several of the games in the article.

Just because you don't, does not mean the rest of the world is like you. I still play a lot of older games like Quake II and UT99.

You're a little late posting this "negative" news, article is a few days old.

Rage3D is biased?


Keep spinning.