ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 32,218
- 14,904
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In Germany didnt they round up people and throw them in death camps and work prisons?
Welfare is a bit different from a death camp.
Welfare is a bit different from a death camp.
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HeXen
Diamond Member
- Dec 13, 2009
- 7,831
- 37
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you are ignorant to some important details sir. Not that all you said is untrue, however many indentured servants are far from as you say. I wont even bother with the 4 million white slaves in Africa...you're all knowing. although here is a pic of your indentured servant that didn't get the abuse as you say...plus you ignored much of my post
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SheHateMe
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2012
- 7,251
- 20
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you are ignorant to some important details sir. Not that all you said is untrue, however many indentured servants are far from as you say. I wont even bother with the 4 million white slaves in Africa...you're all knowing. although here is a pic of your indentured servant that didn't get the abuse as you say...plus you ignored much of my post
4 Million White slaves in Africa, eh?
Also, show me a picture without a context...that definitely proves I was wrong.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
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Not to disagree with the outrage of SheHatesMe in any way, but there is a slight defect in the historical portrayal of early in the early American indentured servants concept.
As the quote is as follows, " Indentured servants were pretty much contract workers, they would agree to work a period of time (typically a few years) for a meager wage they could take back to their families."
As the part I take exception too, is the idea their meager wages went back to their families. Simply because most indentured servants came from the white European dregs of society mired in hopeless poverty and with no prospect of social advancement in their homeland European society. And with the key point being, none of them could afford to scrape up the money to pay a ship owner to pay for their transport to a new world of opportunity.
Which differs from our other wave of original new world immigrants, made up of wealthy religious European who could seek religious freedom in a new world and finance the transport to the new world on their own nickle. And once that group of white Protestants reached the New World and starting establishing themselves, they found themselves with a acute labor shortage. And as a result the initial idea of indentured servants had some appeal. Recruit the young dregs of European society, pay for their passage to a new world, pay them starvation wages for a limited time, and once that time was up, they gained their full freedom and some skills, and became firsts class new world citizens. Some of the wealthiest and most established American families can trace their origins back to such indentured servant roots. But once in the new world of opportunity, only a tiny minority of such indentured servants ever wanted to go back to Europe.
After that I totally agree, the concept of past American African slavery is nothing but wicked and lacking in any social virtues. Then or now.
As the quote is as follows, " Indentured servants were pretty much contract workers, they would agree to work a period of time (typically a few years) for a meager wage they could take back to their families."
As the part I take exception too, is the idea their meager wages went back to their families. Simply because most indentured servants came from the white European dregs of society mired in hopeless poverty and with no prospect of social advancement in their homeland European society. And with the key point being, none of them could afford to scrape up the money to pay a ship owner to pay for their transport to a new world of opportunity.
Which differs from our other wave of original new world immigrants, made up of wealthy religious European who could seek religious freedom in a new world and finance the transport to the new world on their own nickle. And once that group of white Protestants reached the New World and starting establishing themselves, they found themselves with a acute labor shortage. And as a result the initial idea of indentured servants had some appeal. Recruit the young dregs of European society, pay for their passage to a new world, pay them starvation wages for a limited time, and once that time was up, they gained their full freedom and some skills, and became firsts class new world citizens. Some of the wealthiest and most established American families can trace their origins back to such indentured servant roots. But once in the new world of opportunity, only a tiny minority of such indentured servants ever wanted to go back to Europe.
After that I totally agree, the concept of past American African slavery is nothing but wicked and lacking in any social virtues. Then or now.
Orignal Earl
Diamond Member
- Oct 27, 2005
- 8,059
- 55
- 86
4 Million White slaves in Africa, eh?
Also, show me a picture without a context...that definitely proves I was wrong.
That is a picture of a civil war prisoner.
SheHateMe
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2012
- 7,251
- 20
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No one can truly pick their parents or the location of their birth. I find it odd that anyone can find any real justification for slavery. Many people have literally been worked to death on plantations or outright killed for sport like gladiators. Fathers and mothers have also had their daughters raped by their slave masters without any say in the matter. Slavery is a practice that is ripe for abuse and neglect. In many places and times in history, debtors have been turned into slaves when they could not pay their debts. People should study up on slavery before they go mouthing off about how great it was. Maybe they should try being whipped a few times to see how great that is.
Some indentured servants were decently treated, others were not. The white man's avarice & greed knew no racial boundaries. Social convention evolved to where it was unacceptable to treat whites as poorly as blacks, and ultimately to where both were treated equally badly by the ownership class, which required the Civil War to get there, along with 100 years of Jim Crow in its wake.
Indentured servitude was, nonetheless, a voluntary & temporary arrangement, perhaps with hidden consequences & conditions, which slavery was not. Indentured servants enjoyed the protection of the law, primitive as it was, while slaves had none whatsoever.
Indentured servitude was, nonetheless, a voluntary & temporary arrangement, perhaps with hidden consequences & conditions, which slavery was not. Indentured servants enjoyed the protection of the law, primitive as it was, while slaves had none whatsoever.
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,914
- 2,359
- 126
I dont see anyone justifying slavery.
And many still are today.
I dont think anyone on this board would disagree that slavery itself IS abuse and neglect.
Still happens today.
And some people need to realize slavery has not disappeared, and in sheer numbers happens on a larger scale today than 200 years ago.
I dont think anyone, including those mentioned in the OP, are condoning slavery. My best friend's wife is black, and I showed this thread to him, to which he replied "We've talked about this many times, and Mary (fictitious name of course) realizes as bad as her ancestors had it (they came over on the boats in the mid 1700's) she is thankful she wasnt born in her ancestor's native country". I guess its all about perspective.
HamburgerBoy
Lifer
- Apr 12, 2004
- 27,112
- 318
- 126
That wouldn't be SheHateMe dying of starvation. It'd be a completely different person does not exist in this world, and I see no reason to worry about the non-existent. What is worth having concern over is the tangible, like those that actually did suffer as a result of the actions of some of our ancestors that actually did exist.
SheHateMe
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2012
- 7,251
- 20
- 81
LOL. Unbelievable
you are ignorant to some important details sir. Not that all you said is untrue, however many indentured servants are far from as you say. I wont even bother with the 4 million white slaves in Africa...you're all knowing. although here is a pic of your indentured servant that didn't get the abuse as you say...plus you ignored much of my post
It's impossible to say what modern Africa might be like had they not suffered the depredations of Colonialism, making such scenarios meaningless.
SagaLore
Elite Member
- Dec 18, 2001
- 24,037
- 21
- 81
/facepalm
Have you considered that perhaps Africa is in the state it is because of slavery?
I rather suspect that's misleading. As a % of world population, slavery has obviously been greatly diminished from 200 years ago.
peonyu
Platinum Member
- Mar 12, 2003
- 2,038
- 23
- 81
/facepalm
Have you considered that perhaps Africa is in the state it is because of slavery?
The whole continent wasn't marked by slavery, Zimbabwe is just as poor as Nigeria yet Zimbabwe was not a slave supplier...The whole continent is a mess and it was a mess even before the slave trade began [the tribes were killing each other and enslaving each other since forever], gotta blame something though i suppose, right ?
SheHateMe
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2012
- 7,251
- 20
- 81
European Colonialism also destroyed some countries within Africa. Not to mention raping Africa of its Natural Resources.
There are still a lot of Diamonds left in Africa, however European Jewelers continue to drive the Blood Diamond Industry in Africa and those of us in the first world don't mind passively supporting it.
Also seen Kenya which was recommended as a country where it would be fun to be a citizen what with its $1700/capita GDP.
Because things have certainly gotten better after kicking out those europeans. See for instance Zimbabwe
There are a lot of diamonds sitting in Debeers warehouse.
But you do see a reason to concern yourself with people who have been dead for nearly a hundred years or more?
That certainly does not seem to be very tangible does it?
EXman
Lifer
- Jul 12, 2001
- 20,079
- 15
- 81
Who is voting for Nancy freaking Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Barney Frank, Dick Durbin and that idiot who leads the senate? I'm not saying the right doesn't have their own asshats. They have Plenty! You just don't here about the Dems as much since the Mainstream media looks the other way.
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 32,218
- 14,904
- 136
I'd love to hear comparable instances of stupidity from those representatives, so please post. And please don't give me gaffes, show me their personal feelings/beliefs that are so ridiculous that they should be completely ignored.
HamburgerBoy
Lifer
- Apr 12, 2004
- 27,112
- 318
- 126
The guy in the op's story (who you seem to adamantly defend) said the action of slavery as it happened (i.e. in this world to real life people) was a good thing.
This ^^. Just because something positive resulted from a horrible act doesn't mean we should consider if the act was justifiable or could be excused. I happen to know a classmate whose sister was brutally murdered as a minor. Her mother has since founded an organization that champions victim's rights. Some good has certainly come out of that horrible deed, but it's insensitive, if not insulting, to say that the murder "was a good thing".
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