Slavery was good thing, says AR GOP'er

[nehalem256]

Maybe what's going on in Africa would have been different had we not taken slaves?

You simply don't know the long term impact of the continent due to slavery.

Because clearly adding more people to a country experiencing starvation will make things better?

And we did not take slaves. Their own black brothers sold them to us.

 

[Throckmorton]

So you would rather be in Africa dying of AIDS or starvation or genocidal warlords or famine or etc?

Technically she wouldn't exist at all.

 

[buckshot24]

I go to State

Nice. I drive through campus every day.

 

[ivwshane]

Please name which country you would prefer to live in. And we can look at what horrible stuff is happening there.

EDIT: or we can start with this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Africa






I never said I supported slavery or that it was justified. But that does not mean that the descendants of slavery are not better off than if their ancestors had not be enslaved.

If they weren't slaves wouldn't they just be immigrants like everyone else that came to this country? Are you so delusional that you think that if it weren't for slavery Africans would have never gone to America?

 

[ivwshane]

Well the problem is if your ancestors being slaves resulted in you having a better life than your otherwise would have it kinda destroys your "BAHHHHHH by ancestors were slaves feel sorry for me card"



Because obviously a bunch of 19th century racists would have allowed blacks to immigrate here?



Kenya has a PPP GDP/capita of $1,764 and an HIV prevalence of 6.3% for adults. Sounds like a real utopia to me

When immigration was high a lot of racism existed with regards to the Irish and others but that eventually went away as they became apart of society, why would that not be the same case for Afrikans?

 

[peonyu]

As bad as slavery was for black people in the US, its still going on today in Africa. It wasn't just the "White man" who enslaved black people, it was the Arabs who did it to, not to mention their own tribes were enslaving each other and then selling them to the White and Arabs. If your going to be mad about slavery then atleast admit it was your own people who sold your ancestors for profit.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_modern_Africa

"Slavery in Africa continues today. Slavery existed in Africa before the arrival of the Atlantic slave trade, as did an internal African slave trade and an Arab slave trade. Despite being illegal in all African countries, slavery continues in parts of Africa and the rest of the world."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

"Historians estimate that between 10 and 18 million Africans were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara desert between 650 and 1900.[1][2][3][4] The term Arab when used in historical documents often represented a cultural term rather than a "racial" term, and many of the "Arab" slave traders such as Tippu Tip and others were indistinguishable from the "Africans" whom they enslaved and sold. Due to the nature of the Arab slave trade it is also impossible to be precise about actual numbers.[5][6][7] Additionally, approximately 11 million African slaves were taken to the Americas. Likewise, more than 2 million Africans died on the ship before reaching the destinations in the Arab world, therefore the slave traders would obtain the same amount of Africans in order to make up for the loss."



As far as importing Black slaves from central Africa goes, the North African and Arab people pioneered that first. About half of the slaves ended up in North Africa and the Middle east, while the rest ended up in the New world, our Muslim buddies were trading black slaves like it was fashionable for 600 years before Whitey decided to join them.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Just ignore him.

I should be happy my ancestors we're enslaved, if they weren't...I'd be hungry in a war torn country suffering from AIDS.

Many blacks have arrived in the US after slavery was abolished. Caribbean has provided a large amount. And some blacks have headed back to Africa. Liberia as an example.

With respect to slavery, realize that the majority that arrived in the US for the first 100 years were in fact slaves already by other black tribes.

 

[Sonikku]

The guy makes some pretty decent points. He and the GoP aren't bigoted at all and he has some wise words, it's just too bad they're drowned out in the usual anandtech liberal LAWL DATS RASISTS obsession.

If anything they should be deeply honored to have built the best nation under god in history. But just think of what would have happened if overbearing government had not pushed their relentless business regulation with the 13th amendment; America would still be an economic power house today. Liberals often complain about all the American jobs moving over seas, yet they rage and rage on slavery like it was a bad thing.

In another life, The Ipad could have had a badass made in America sticker on it. Then we could have been complaining about how our Ipads had a really gaudy sticker on it and how it left an icky residue as we attempted to peel it off, as opposed to complaining about the American jobs moving over seas and our wealth leaving our borders which is far worse. And no one, not even the Chinese could possibly hope to undercut our labor. Because we wouldn't be paying our labor an outrageous $2 a day to make high priced electronics. We would be paying them half... of NOTHING. I weep for the America that could have been.

But I'm not racist.

 

[Iron Woode]

Many blacks have arrived in the US after slavery was abolished. Caribbean has provided a large amount. And some blacks have headed back to Africa. Liberia as an example.

With respect to slavery, realize that the majority that arrived in the US for the first 100 years were in fact slaves already by other black tribes.

and where do you think the Blacks in the Caribbean came from?

We used to have this exact same discussion in History class in HS. We had 2 teachers for this. 1 would be anti-slave and the other pro. It was a very lively discussion. The pro side made some points that were very hard to counter.

Slavery is wrong and I do not support it.

 

[Jhhnn]

As bad as slavery was for black people in the US, its still going on today in Africa. It wasn't just the "White man" who enslaved black people, it was the Arabs who did it to, not to mention their own tribes were enslaving each other and then selling them to the White and Arabs. If your going to be mad about slavery then atleast admit it was your own people who sold your ancestors for profit.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_modern_Africa

"Slavery in Africa continues today. Slavery existed in Africa before the arrival of the Atlantic slave trade, as did an internal African slave trade and an Arab slave trade. Despite being illegal in all African countries, slavery continues in parts of Africa and the rest of the world."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

"Historians estimate that between 10 and 18 million Africans were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara desert between 650 and 1900.[1][2][3][4] The term Arab when used in historical documents often represented a cultural term rather than a "racial" term, and many of the "Arab" slave traders such as Tippu Tip and others were indistinguishable from the "Africans" whom they enslaved and sold. Due to the nature of the Arab slave trade it is also impossible to be precise about actual numbers.[5][6][7] Additionally, approximately 11 million African slaves were taken to the Americas. Likewise, more than 2 million Africans died on the ship before reaching the destinations in the Arab world, therefore the slave traders would obtain the same amount of Africans in order to make up for the loss."



As far as importing Black slaves from central Africa goes, the North African and Arab people pioneered that first. About half of the slaves ended up in North Africa and the Middle east, while the rest ended up in the New world, our Muslim buddies were trading black slaves like it was fashionable for 600 years before Whitey decided to join them.

"Everybody did it!"

"See- They're just as bad!"

Slavery is an ancient abomination, practiced all around the world throughout most of history. The African slave trade just provided a different justification, a racist one. In the thinking of the times, blacks bore the mark of Cain, and were an inferior race for whom slavery was actually a benefit. They needed the guidance of the white man's morality imposed upon them, and slavery was the way to accomplish that. Hubbard's beliefs echo that.

Arguing that Slavery was good for their descendants is like arguing that the Holocaust was good for Jews, because that's how Israel came to exist.

Anybody who wants to understand the twisted headset & social mores of American slaveholders should read this-

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-German-Sl.../dp/080214229X

 

[Paratus]

Another way to look at what nehalem is saying is that he approves of the government forcibly redistributing another's work. That it is a benefit to everyone.

Couple that with his desire, in the voter id thread, to provide tax payer funded IDs to mothers on welfare so they can vote democrat and he's well on his way to becoming a full blown communists.

Or just A Troll.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

You are right, people who would used to identify as "black" lucked out. They are still as impulsive as ever but they at least aren't 100% anything anymore. That is, They are no longer sub saharan, especially the men... They just like to rape sensitive white women who have hearts that ask for it and I can't say I blame them.

Hell, I may be part black, but I am predominantly genetically non black. I just hope that one day the ones stuck in ss Africa become as enlightened as i and that they and the australian aboriginals get mixed with white people and live under the rule of law rather than of legislation. The INFJ's are God, and they were probably the first people around. Jefferson is my lord and savior and dr. Paul is Thomas Jefferson... Thomas Jefferson lives because not even the natural 1% have a mind of their own. Dr. Paul will probably be executed in a new way since Romney is the new Augustus caesar, but dr. Paul's spirit lives forever, Romney's body only comes every time a super power crashes... Romney has a body in bibil and vice versa. During the inter war era, there was no super power. FDR made the us govt the super power.

More on topic, Nature told Jefferson to fuck Sally Hemings into several kids for futurity, right?

I conclude that there was some good in the sick genius 14th amendment since the alternative was to kick them out but lincoln wasn't sure when he died. Perhaps the southerners were no longer like John C calhoun and there were too few intellectuals down there, I dont know.

I thought you were going to speak to a professional this week. Did that happen?

 

[Steeplerot]

he's well on his way to becoming a full blown communist.

When the revolution comes the trolls will be first against the wall. We dont want em either. Thanks but no thanks comrade.

 

[Wreckem]

We still have immigration and we had slavery and the black population is like, what, 15% of the population? More people are here because of slavery than if we left it to immigration.

Given how horrible slavery was it's hard to consider that something good may have come from it. I totally understand that.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you wrote. But, there are far and away more descendants of immigrants than descendants of slaves. People forget the US more or less had open borders until the late 1800s.

African slaves brought to the US before abolishment of slavery was around 600,000-650,000.

Total number of immigrants coming to the US from 1840-1850 = 1.7million. Immigration exploded in the 1840s-1900, then in post war, and then again in the last 30 years.

The overwhelming majority of US citizens are descendants of immigrants who came to the US when the US had open borders.

 

[nehalem256]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you wrote. But, there are far and away more descendants of immigrants than descendants of slaves. People forget the US more or less had open borders until the late 1800s.

African slaves brought to the US before abolishment of slavery was around 600,000-650,000.

Total number of immigrants coming to the US from 1840-1850 = 1.7million. Immigration exploded in the 1840s-1900, then in post war, and then again in the last 30 years.

The overwhelming majority of US citizens are descendants of immigrants who came to the US when the US had open borders.

I am thinking that most of those immigrating to the US were not black people.

 

[Wreckem]

I am thinking that most of those immigrating to the US were not black people.

Since the the immigration reform of 1965 there have been about 1 million directly from Africa.

From the founding of the US to 1965 Americans and our government were overtly racist and bigoted motherfuckers who limited/outright prevented immigration by certain groups. But not other groups of course.

The history of US immigration policy is deeply tainted with bigotry and racism.

 

[Lemon law]

Maybe we should turn this question around and ask our bigoted GOPer, how, in this day and age, we should select what groups to enslave and what groups are designated to become members of the slave owning group.

Given that our Present US Constitution prohibits making that discrimination on the basis of skin color or country or region of racial origin, means we have a selection problem here in selecting the slaves and slave owners. As the other general problem becomes, how much larger in terms or a ratio, shall the slaves group becomes, to the smaller fraction of slave owners.

Since the only fair way may be with a lottery system, we can then ask our pro slavery GOPer, would he accept the long odds of being designated a slave v being a slave owner? And even if our GOPer got lucky and was selected to be a slave owner, it would be even longer odds that his immediate family, including his wife and children would escape being included in the slave group.

And then ask our slavery advocate if he still thinks slavery is such a good idea?

 

[buckshot24]

I don't think anybody is advocating slavery.

 

[Rainsford]

So you would rather be in Africa dying of AIDS or starvation or genocidal warlords or famine or etc?

Are those really the only two options? The logic seems a lot like saying Jews should be glad Hitler tried to exterminate them since it led to the creation of Israel.

 

[WelshBloke]

So you would rather be in Africa dying of AIDS or starvation or genocidal warlords or famine or etc?

Because obviously the only way to ever get to America was in the bottom of a ship and then be sold into slavery.

 

[nehalem256]

Are those really the only two options? The logic seems a lot like saying Jews should be glad Hitler tried to exterminate them since it led to the creation of Israel.

Except without the holocaust the Jews would have had a good life in Germany. Arguably better considering the trouble Israel has had with its neighbors.

Because obviously the only way to ever get to America was in the bottom of a ship and then be sold into slavery.

I would say that is how pretty much all blacks made it to America in the 18th and 19th century.

 

[Rainsford]

Except without the holocaust the Jews would have had a good life in Germany. Arguably better considering the trouble Israel has had with its neighbors.

And without the African slave trade and rampant colonization by European powers, Africa might be in better shape today.

That wasn't really why I made the comparison though. The argument seems to be that if something good is a result of something horrible happening, that should be relevant in the way we think about the horrible event. I don't think that's the case, particularly when the intention of those behind the bad things was not to create the positive effect.

 

[WelshBloke]

...

That wasn't really why I made the comparison though. The argument seems to be that if something good is a result of something horrible happening, that should be relevant in the way we think about the horrible event. I don't think that's the case, particularly when the intention of those behind the bad things was not to create the positive effect.

Yeah it would make rape a 'good thing' if it results in the birth of a child.

 

[HeXen]

ok so if slavery in America never happened....then what would we have now? How many blacks would not have been born to the parents and granparents they have now?

Unless we could see a parallel world where this occurred and America is worse than it is in this one now, then the title could be considered correct.

Keep in mind that during that time, there were slaves in Africa. Some Africans at the time were selling those slaves to the Americans to take back, those white guys just didn't run around Africa rounding them up by hand ya know. Every single race in the world has at one point in time, been a slave in mass somewhere in the world at various points in time.

There were white slaves here in America as well, i believe they predated the black slaves...not forgetting that blacks were also working in the fields next to Native Indians in many cases.

The white slaves not indentured, who began to arrive here in 1618, included hundreds of children – – waifs and strays – - who had been rounded up from streets of London to serve wealthy farmers in Virginia.

Honestly though, i think our education system has seriously mis construed a little bit about slavery and focused entirely on black slavery alone while leaving out many other things..same with our founding fathers. Today many blacks only know of their own history here in America and little of the wider problem of slavery throughout history which has led to a culture of self entitlement that is now widespread.

 

[SheHateMe]

ok so if slavery in America never happened....then what would we have now? How many blacks would not have been born to the parents and granparents they have now?

Unless we could see a parallel world where this occurred and America is worse than it is in this one now, then the title could be considered correct.

Keep in mind that during that time, there were slaves in Africa. Some Africans at the time were selling those slaves to the Americans to take back, those white guys just didn't run around Africa rounding them up by hand ya know. Every single race in the world has at one point in time, been a slave in mass somewhere in the world at various points in time.

There were white slaves here in America as well, i believe they predated the black slaves...not forgetting that blacks were also working in the fields next to Native Indians in many cases.


Honestly though, i think our education system has seriously mis construed a little bit about slavery and focused entirely on black slavery alone while leaving out many other things..same with our founding fathers. Today many blacks only know of their own history here in America and little of the wider problem of slavery throughout history which has led to a culture of self entitlement that is now widespread.

They were indentured servants. Not slaves. There's a difference. The Europeans found that keeping Africans as slaves and not paying them was okay because we were deemed less than human. Indentured servitude when out of style after the Slave trade started. Why would a plantation owner pay a poor white person to tend their fields when they could force a slave to do it for free.

White indentured servants did not suffer the same abuse as African slaves. Because of the Slave trade, I will NEVER know where my ancestors were from in Africa, there are parts of my family that I will never have contact with or knowledge of. I can only trace my roots back 75 years. Indentured servants were pretty much contract workers, they would agree to work a period of time (typically a few years) for a meager wage they could take back to their families. Their women were not raped by white slave owners, their families weren't broken apart and sold, they were not whipped or beaten either. When they were done with their contact, indentured servants could go home. Slaves risked being killed if they ran away or being whipped half to death, not to mention the punishment their family would probably endure.

Due to slavery, I have European ancestry...ancestry that was forced upon my ancestors with rape. I am not proud of that, but I can't change it either. Don't try to minimize how bad slavery was by bringing up indentured servitude. Are you kidding?

Tell me again about the plight of Indentured servants?